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Southend-2

Old 1st Nov 2017, 12:05
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Last time I visited Southend was in 1980 and I've had no reason to revisit but I think I would be totally shocked with the change and hopefully I might pay a visit sometime. I can remember the old terminal very well and I remember that it was particularly busy on a Sunday afternoon with the apron full of BAF Heralds and BMA Viscounts.
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Old 1st Nov 2017, 12:37
  #322 (permalink)  
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It was busy all the time back in the '60s, much busier than the passenger figures for those years suggest because the Bristol Freighters, Carvairs and Vikings didn't carry many pax for a full load. On the other hand Channel Airways shoehorned in the maximum - 88 souls on board their DC-4....
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 10:54
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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I've just noticed a problem on Avios account details relating to SEN that will impact passengers ability to accrue points on the new Flybe routes operating from SEN and might put some people off from using SEN. SEN should get on Avios to have the issue sorted out quickly.

See details here:

http://www.pprune.org/9944250-post67.htmlhttp://www.pprune.org/9944250-post67.html
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 12:07
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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If reserved seats are a barometer of success (obviously some will leave it until they turn up at check-in), some might find these figures interesting for the rest of today's Stobart flights:

Dublin 77
Prague 73
Glasgow 46
Groningen 16
Manchester 5 & 5

The high number of pre-bookings for Dublin and Prague may just reflect that they are more leisure-orientated routes, nonetheless the last minute fares for MAN are also very low which must be a concern.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 15:56
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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We could hold a sweepstake to guess how long Manchester lasts.

As for the terminal it looks long but very narrow. Is that the case?
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 16:57
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, long and narrow. You head upstairs in the middle to security then back down to departure lounge / gates. The arrivals area is to your right as you face the gates. It's small but should be extended by next summer.

I believe they're coping well with the additional Manchester numbers at the moment.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 17:23
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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The terminal extension plans submitted last month show that the existing immigration hall will become part of an enlarged departure hall/gate area. The existing baggage reclaim will become the new immigration hall beyond which a new, much larger, baggage reclaim area will have room for three larger carousels for international arrivals. Beyond that will be domestic arrivals with one carousel.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 22:24
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
We could hold a sweepstake to guess how long Manchester lasts.
In the interest of balance and more thorough analysis, a quick look at tomorrow morning shows 34 seats reserved southbound, though only 13 northbound. So clearly there is some variation between flights, echoing the poster that flew the route last weekend.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 08:25
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Not all these seats might be reserved either as the airline may have blocked off certain rows for trim purposes
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 09:03
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
If reserved seats are a barometer of success (obviously some will leave it until they turn up at check-in), some might find these figures interesting for the rest of today's Stobart flights:

Dublin 77
Prague 73
Glasgow 46
Groningen 16
Manchester 5 & 5

The high number of pre-bookings for Dublin and Prague may just reflect that they are more leisure-orientated routes, nonetheless the last minute fares for MAN are also very low which must be a concern.
Curious, has there been any advertising promoting the commuter time efficiency of travelling to/from Manchester by air versus rail?

My initial thoughts are people might perceive it more convenient to travel by train from London to Manchester as opposed to hauling your ass from the City to SEN then same other end on your arrival at Manchester back into the city centre. However, perceptions can often be different to the reality.

The Manchester numbers look disappointing for sure.

Thoughts?
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 09:24
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Those aren't the final numbers as it doesn't take account of those without pre-booked seats that haven't checked in. Nonetheless, you wouldn't imagine final numbers to be particularly respectable.

I'm not sure this is a viable option for city-city in terms of time as the door to door train journey would surely be quicker, though with next-day return fares of 60 to 100 it is a cost effective option. I would doubt though that many people would even think to look at flights.

It is a good option if you need to travel from Southend's immediate local catchment (say, Essex/Thurrock/Barking etc) to Manchester or the north-west and for a weekend city break, but I just can't see enough demand. Neither do I think enough people connect through MAN to elsewhere.

I see another 1000 tickets are being given away. You have to wonder how many of those that have travelled to date have been on freebies.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 10:25
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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I can only assume that one of Stobart's thoughts on SEN-MAN was that it would enable them to offer some very good onward connections for SEN catchment pax and for travellers on existing inbound flights to SEN such as GRQ and ANR. That's a sound argument and I'll think you will find that ABZ, BHD, IOM, EXT and, particularly, EDI are already attracting bookings. The problem is that the route is only viable if point-to-point traffic is sufficient to require the 3 x daily service that you really need to make the connection options attractive.

I've flown NWI-MAN mid-week on the D328 when there were 8 pax northbound and 11 coming back so even from a city where rail travel to MAN takes about 5 hours the demand for air travel is weak. The prospect of attracting pax from London to travel to MAN via SEN in any numbers seems unlikely to me simply because the first departure has no London train connection. MAN-SEN has greater possibilities where the only other air option involves arriving at LHR and still requiring a train journey into the City. Any promotion of the route should perhaps be focused at that market. I suspect that a large number of pax on the BA MAN-LHR route are connecting onwards from LHR.

To sum up, that's a lot of capacity to fill, initially at least, for the potential market is quite small and most will still find train travel more convenient and without excellent public surface transport to SEN the cards are stacked against you even further. It's obviously too early to make any judgements yet but things seem to be shaping up much as I anticipated.

Last edited by Expressflight; 3rd Nov 2017 at 19:06.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 10:42
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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Why the obsession on city centre to city centre travel?
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 12:40
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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I think you boys and girls need to take a chill pill

This is off peak at the start of new routes.

Have a look at NQY-MAN. It started smaller and has built up to decent numbers and then had a summer second rotation added which again sells really well.

MAN is probably 50% point to point and 50% connections both on BE and VS/EK etc

Starting with double daily was always going to prove difficult rather than starting small and building. But the aircraft need to fly somewhere. The route will build and prove successful I suspect.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 12:56
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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There are two big differences though between NQY-MAN and SEN-MAN.

For point to point, Cornwall-Manchester is further by road than Essex-Manchester. The rail journey is much longer. For connections, there are plenty of non-stop and indirect options from London's airports whereas from Cornwall there are very few outside of the UK.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 13:05
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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SEN-MAN is 3X daily.

If passenger numbers are in line with Stobart's expectations at this point, and they intend to play a long game then there's no problem. But we can be fairly certain that Manchester have not offered Stobart a stunning deal in the same way Groningen or Antwerp may have, so at some stage those rotations need to generate significant income just to break even.

Remember, when Stobart came along they saw the future as niche freight and regional passenger flights. They're now backing themselves to deliver the latter part of their own vision. I guess they'll give their choices every opportunity to come good.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 13:20
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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cornishsimon..
Do you have any insight into standalone financial results concerning say NQY-MAN?.
You happily point out pax numbers when you constantly champion NQY, an airport & operation subsidised by the taxpayer & therefore not a natural font of commercial reality that the "boys & girls" on this thread are probably alluding to.
"But the aircraft need to fly somewhere" is not maybe Chapter One in any airline executive`s How To Operate A Successful Enterprise textbook either with all due respect.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 16:41
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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No inside knowledge at all.

I know how much our TA pays to fly me too and from MAN or connect me through MAN, I know not the yields involved. But it costs considerably more to fly NQY-MAN than it does to fly SEN-MAN.

All I’m saying is that I think the route will grow the liter it’s left to bed in and the more codeshares and connections it serves.

It’s a bit too soon to be writing the route off in my opinion.

Before long you will end up with CX, EK, VS, AY etc codeshares and SEN will be opened up to a vast amount of airports that currently aren’t an option, the route will grow.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 17:02
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Am I missing something here?.
"CX,EK,VS,AY etc" are all available for SEN customers from a little field to the West called eerrr LHR!....
It has been pointed out SEN ain`t NQY in terms of geography.
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Old 3rd Nov 2017, 17:06
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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The route is a week old and it will take time for people to realise it's there and remember when planning travel and to book.

With loads up to 40+ that I have seen so far it's OK, yes there are some flights with very low numbers, but some are decent.

I remember when RNS started and used to carry 8 people at a time ...
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