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Belfast International-2

Old 5th May 2018, 16:29
  #1081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
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Originally Posted by bongoo View Post
For stating the truth.?
Depends on your perspective. Security was actually well planned this morning so it wasn't a shambles. I won't go into why it didn't work because it isn't really what trolls are interested in, they just want to rant or make definitive statements without perhaps all the context.
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Old 5th May 2018, 17:26
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by emma1 View Post
Security Shambles today ! Major airport I think not !
It is regularly a shambles to be frank. The last few weeks, even the priorty queue has been back at the barcode scanner at the times Iíve been through.

From the BBC article:
ĒEarlier this week, Belfast International Airport urged passengers "to allow two hours to process through Central Search before heading to Airside departure gates".

Its Head of Security, Nabeel Gill, said it was "dealing with unprecedented numbers at the airport, which means it will take extra time to reach departure gates".ď

How about no, instead sort out your mess. Peoples travel days are already long enough without having to add two hours because the airport canít handle the traffic it has worked so hard to generate.

So as not to just sound like a rant with no solutions...as a customer I can see clearly two things that need to change:

1. Dedicated areas for people to pack up again
2. Staff patrolling and moving on those people who stand and re-dress as the trays exit scanners all while blocking others from passing through.

Last edited by EGAC is Better; 5th May 2018 at 17:38.
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Old 5th May 2018, 17:58
  #1083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
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Belfast International Airport apologises over security delays - BBC News

2 hours to get through does seem a bit much, any time I have travelled through the London airports security is usually slick and professional. Think its fair to say they would be marginally busier than Antrim International!

In their defence though, its nice weather in Norn Iron for a change, bank holiday weekend as well. Perhaps a few sickies amongst security staff coupled with all flights at max capacity?
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Old 5th May 2018, 18:59
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by panpanpanpan View Post
In their defence though, its nice weather in Norn Iron for a change, bank holiday weekend as well. Perhaps a few sickies amongst security staff coupled with all flights at max capacity?
There is an argument that should also have been planned for. It shouldnít have come as a surprise if all flights were full.
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Old 5th May 2018, 20:22
  #1085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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It was 24c here in London today, I would not class 17c as nice.

I hope that this does not have a knock on this evenings flights.
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Old 6th May 2018, 00:42
  #1086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Larne, UK
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Originally Posted by EGAC is Better View Post


There is an argument that should also have been planned for. It shouldnít have come as a surprise if all flights were full.
In a business world this doesn't make sense..
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Old 6th May 2018, 10:12
  #1087 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tigger2k8 View Post
In a business world this doesn't make sense..
Finally, a sane voice amongst the madness.......
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Old 6th May 2018, 11:16
  #1088 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tigger2k8 View Post
In a business world this doesn't make sense..
Of course it makes sense. If you can't or won't scale to handle demand in the peak season then the demand shifts to somewhere that can, like the big aerodrome 100 miles down the road.

It makes sense to spend money to make money. It doesn't make sense to hold money and lose money as a result. This applies to any service-based enterprise.
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Old 6th May 2018, 12:29
  #1089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by El Bunto View Post
Of course it makes sense. If you can't or won't scale to handle demand in the peak season then the demand shifts to somewhere that can, like the big aerodrome 100 miles down the road.

It makes sense to spend money to make money. It doesn't make sense to hold money and lose money as a result. This applies to any service-based enterprise.
Afraid not, businesses, at least in the airport... will adjust staff numbers per day / shift / seasonal / sickness* (talking about long term, or at least some notice given), but no business will over staff on paper just to cover potential sick calls for good weather, and that is what we are talking about. Managers / Supervisors etc will ask staff if they can come in on a day off to help etc.. but people have lives, have plans.. and need days off.. so when it comes to short notice sick calls, there isn't much that can be done to adjust start times / days on short notice.. I believe it is 24 hrs notice for start time changes.

The CAA has changed the goal posts A LOT in the last 6 months, with the new procedures that MUST be followed, it does slow everything down, there was a visit just 2 weeks ago, which yet again, added more workload and required more staff.. 20-30 staff have left in the last few months, some long term.. and they can't replace and get someone up to speed in a week....out of the 50 that they advertised, they will probably lose 10 in the first month due to pay / shifts / workload. At the minute, they are in second place for staff turnover at the airport, Swissport being first.

I don't work at the airport anymore, but I pass through BHD / BFS multiple times per month, and I have seen the change in what the staff are expected to do.. add it all in with a busy weekend and no doubt, i would put an estimate on up to 20% of passengers did not follow the basic rules before walking through the metal detector / allowing items to go through x-ray... it was going to happen.. now hopefully they can sit down and work it out and have the staff in place before end of June.

You can't compare BFS to DUB... DUB has far more traffic, bound by different regulations for security (these may be more or less strict, i don't know), better technology and flow, no doubt the security contract is more lucrative and means they can have more staff etc
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Old 6th May 2018, 12:40
  #1090 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by El Bunto View Post
Of course it makes sense. If you can't or won't scale to handle demand in the peak season then the demand shifts to somewhere that can, like the big aerodrome 100 miles down the road.

It makes sense to spend money to make money. It doesn't make sense to hold money and lose money as a result. This applies to any service-based enterprise.
I think you have gone off at the wrong tangent. Someone above mentioned that staff 'sickness' had affected things yesterday and you stated that they should plan for this. I think planning for the possibility that some staff might happen to go sick by having additional people on site ready to take their place is not practical in a business sense. As it happens, there is a plan to call in replacements but that all takes time and people who can fulfil the role are a finite resource (and you have to leave enough to follow on after). Of course there are other aspects of all this that could be improved (to avoid or diminish the potential for the staff absence) but I wish people would have a titter of wit and not just label the airport as a shambles. All that does is dishearten the good people who actually did a really good job yesterday in a very hard circumstance. Put the blame on the low wage culture that is driven by the low cost models of modern business culture. After all, that is the reason that the people who should have been there are not invested enough in their job to put in the effort to attend.
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Old 6th May 2018, 13:54
  #1091 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tigger2k8 View Post

You can't compare BFS to DUB... DUB has far more traffic, bound by different regulations for security (these may be more or less strict, i don't know), better technology and flow, no doubt the security contract is more lucrative and means they can have more staff etc
Minor point but I'm sure security is not contracted out by the daa because they get fines if they don't meet targets.

2 hours is just down to bad planning especially on a bank holiday.
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Old 6th May 2018, 15:01
  #1092 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI-EIDW View Post
2 hours is just down to bad planning especially on a bank holiday.
No it wasn't. It is far to easy to make a blasť statement like that. That is half the problem. The airport had put additonal measures in place and were let down by a contractor. Of course there is no explaining that to the public, they just see an airport and can't understand why arriving at 0615 for a 0700 flight is madness (for example). Now I expect to see that from the gen pop. but I had expected you guys on here to understand the realistic picture a bit more.
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Old 6th May 2018, 15:27
  #1093 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SecondDog View Post
No it wasn't. It is far to easy to make a blasť statement like that. That is half the problem. The airport had put additonal measures in place and were let down by a contractor. Of course there is no explaining that to the public, they just see an airport and can't understand why arriving at 0615 for a 0700 flight is madness (for example). Now I expect to see that from the gen pop. but I had expected you guys on here to understand the realistic picture a bit more.
I understand that things go wrong but it must have been planned on a shoestring if, as you say, a few people failed to turn up and it caused a mess.

There is also a bigger picture here. How much revenue did the airport lose as a result of people standing in security queues? eg. What if all those people were going to spend £5 each airside and didnít get a chance because they were stuck in a queue? Its bad news.

You have to invest to make money and that, from a regular travellers perspective, just doesnít appear to be happening.

Is anything being done to protect the priority security lines during these busy times? Or, are they also being swamped by people paying at the top of the stairs? I have an annual pass for fast track for a reason...that reason is so I can turn up with minimal time before my flight and reasonably expect to make it. If that reason goes away, I will re-assess whether or not to move my business to City where possible. That is also bad news if a percentage of the regulars who provide a constant revenue stream start to think the same way.

I have little sympathy for the managers whise job it is to organise this stuff. I work in an industry where systems redundancy is a key part of business strategy. There is no excuse for an airport making record profits to skrimp on a relative few quid to make sure this doesnít happen.

Last edited by EGAC is Better; 6th May 2018 at 17:49.
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Old 6th May 2018, 16:06
  #1094 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure BFS will learn from this. I don't buy the argument about DUB though, not so many years ago their security lines were horrendous with people queuing for over 1 hour even 2 at times I've seen it myself. Its what happens when demand outstrips supply, BFS has had a lot of growth in a short space of time, last summer I was sharing a table with 3 other sets of people, some were sat on the floor it was that crowded in there, DUB had the same issues before terminal 2, FR expansion resulted in a facility way too small..
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Old 6th May 2018, 16:26
  #1095 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI-EIDW View Post
Minor point but I'm sure security is not contracted out by the daa because they get fines if they don't meet targets.

2 hours is just down to bad planning especially on a bank holiday.
There is only so much planning you can do with a lack of available / skilled staff and procedures change not to mention working time regulations, I feel like this point has been overlooked already in my post.

Its not like hiring someone for a shop that can start in a week..


Originally Posted by EGAC is Better View Post

I understand that things go wrong but it must have been planned on a shoestring if, as you say, a few people failed to turn up and it caused a mess.

Is anything being done to protect the priority security lines during these busy times? Or, are they also being swamped by people paying at the top of the stairs? I have an annual pass for fast track for a reason...that reason is so I can turn up with minimal time before my flight and reasonably expect to make it. If that reason goes away, I will re-assess whether or not to move my business to City where possible. That is also bad news if a percentage of the regulars who provide a constant revenue stream start to think the same way.
I wish the airport world worked the way most people expect... everything in contract terms to do with low cost blah blah is run to the line... Swissport do the same, SSP do the same, ICTS do the same... consumers want cheap flights.. this is the consequences... easyJet wanted extremely cheap handling and moved to Swissport 4 years ago.. now there is a monopoly.. and the only choice is Swissport for passenger flights.... which in busy times means poor service.

The Airport and ICTS did warn people before the incident.. and I do believe that the timing of this was a few days after the CAA audit.. which moved the goal posts again which required more staff to meet requirements.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/b...-call-14599147

Playing with fire using a priority pass for that reason... I know the mindset you are using.. I am guilty of hoping for the same if I am on a tight schedule.. but its risky.... it was only swamped due to desperation for a period of a few hours.

Refer to the T&Cs of the priority pass
https://www.belfastairport.com/media...y-lane-tcs.pdf

While 99% of the time it'll be fine, its the 1% that will catch you out..

Hopefully things will get sorted in the next few weeks and since it was out in the media about the delays.. people will leave extra time.. if they don't over the next few weeks I have no sympathy.. I will be allowing an extra 30-40 mins over the next few weeks.
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Old 6th May 2018, 17:35
  #1096 (permalink)  
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I see they are trying to recruit another 50 for security. However, at the current level of unemployment we have, that will not be easy, especially a job on minimum everything. Staff turnover is a very expensive game. If they want to recruit and retain, I'm afraid they will be forced to improve the package, otherwise this will happen often especially now that the airport is very busy. When you are passing through it, as I do often, it is noticeably busier.
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Old 6th May 2018, 17:52
  #1097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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Lets just back the buss up there lads. Airlines want everything for next to nothing including handling then move the goal posts during the contract period putting more pressure on GHA's the world over. Swissport is not a monopoly at at BFS or indeed BHD. CCS is a GHA they just dont have any contracts at BHD. Menzies for example walked away from BHD having got the heads up that NY pulling out and EI contract going to Swissport. The same in BFS. If the carrier is contracted to a GHA and it moves into BFS who is to say DNATA for example dont move in or Menzies comes back.
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:05
  #1098 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I see they are trying to recruit another 50 for security. However, at the current level of unemployment we have, that will not be easy, especially a job on minimum everything. Staff turnover is a very expensive game. If they want to recruit and retain, I'm afraid they will be forced to improve the package, otherwise this will happen often especially now that the airport is very busy. When you are passing through it, as I do often, it is noticeably busier.
Totally agree. Staff attrition is a costly business and if it means people need to be treated better, that must happen otherwise bad things happen.

I do somewhat agree that it is playing with fire tigger2k8 (If Iím at the airport less than an hour before my flight I am running late) but I also do believe the airport has a duty, in these exceptional circumstances, to add some protection for those who do travel regularly for business and have paid an annual fee for services including fast track. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth to be told I should get up earlier to accomodate poor management because the airport canít handle the start of the bucket and spade season.

All these customer cannot have been a surprise...management need to front up and find a way to deal with it even if it means flying in people from elsewhere temporariliy.
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:44
  #1099 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SecondDog View Post
No it wasn't. It is far to easy to make a blasť statement like that. That is half the problem. The airport had put additonal measures in place and were let down by a contractor. Of course there is no explaining that to the public, they just see an airport and can't understand why arriving at 0615 for a 0700 flight is madness (for example). Now I expect to see that from the gen pop. but I had expected you guys on here to understand the realistic picture a bit more.
Passengers may be partly to blame but I fail to see what sort of planning they put in place which left them down and ended up with 2 hour queues. How many lanes were operating on Saturday?

The CEO should of called BHD to send up some staff!!!

There is only so much planning you can do with a lack of available / skilled staff and procedures change not to mention working time regulations, I feel like this point has been overlooked already in my post.

Its not like hiring someone for a shop that can start in a week..
I agree somewhat. Given the capacity growth this summer, planning should have been better and started earlier. Its the first weekend of the main summer schedule and it will only get busier. The problem here is if the above link is accurate 2 hours is nothing short of disgraceful. A long security queue typically is 30-45 minutes.

I hope BFS is not going into a period of low fees to driver passengers and fail to put adequate infrastructure in place.

I see they are trying to recruit another 50 for security. However, at the current level of unemployment we have, that will not be easy, especially a job on minimum everything. Staff turnover is a very expensive game. If they want to recruit and retain, I'm afraid they will be forced to improve the package, otherwise this will happen often especially now that the airport is very busy. When you are passing through it, as I do often, it is noticeably busier.
Recruitment should of started at the latest by January.
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Old 6th May 2018, 18:44
  #1100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted by Alteagod View Post
Lets just back the buss up there lads. Airlines want everything for next to nothing including handling then move the goal posts during the contract period putting more pressure on GHA's the world over. Swissport is not a monopoly at at BFS or indeed BHD. CCS is a GHA they just dont have any contracts at BHD. Menzies for example walked away from BHD having got the heads up that NY pulling out and EI contract going to Swissport. The same in BFS. If the carrier is contracted to a GHA and it moves into BFS who is to say DNATA for example dont move in or Menzies comes back.
Can you explain to me how Swissport does not have the monopoly at BFS and BHD, especially in the passenger market?

Swissport took an aggressive stance on GH in BFS and BHD 4 years ago, they undercut to push other handlers out with the intention of increasing prices at renewals.

Any new handling agent will need millions of pounds in investment from equipment, office space, training... it could take years before a profit is turned, if the contract gets renewed... a risk that not many are willing to take.

Originally Posted by EI-EIDW View Post
Passengers may be partly to blame but I fail to see what sort of planning they put in place which left them down and ended up with 2 hour queues. One person off sick couldn't of caused such a mess. How many lanes were operating on Saturday?

The CEO should of called BHD to send up some staff!!!
I believe up to 6 were finally opened..

Not sure if the CEO question is genuine or not?

G4S runs security at BHD, ICTS at BFS. So not an option, even if it was ICTS at BHD the process to get someone up in short notice and to get the relevant passes isn't easy / fast.. especially at the weekend.

Last edited by tigger2k8; 6th May 2018 at 18:56.
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