Monarch 4

[ratchetring]

Originally Posted by In Mon I Trust

It sure is, which is the only bit of good news to come out of Luton the last few days or another couple of UK airlines would be in trouble! A Virgin 787 in BHX plus all the Flybe work that is done by MAEL. I'd guess now their main customer at MAN and BHX is Flybe, the aircraft (and TUPE'd engineers) most of the original Monarchists couldn't stand.

Hopefully the engineering side will thrive its well regarded and has close ties with Boeing and is profitable ,Whether it stays independent or is sold is i suppose a matter for greybul who i presume still own the company

[SLFandProud]

Sigh; this is a depressing read. As a senior manager in a totally unrelated industry, I'm often called in to turn failing business units around, and without tooting my own horn too much, I usually do (although it usually takes longer than the people who ask me to want - they always want a quick fix, I consider it takes a minimum 6 months to effect any meaningful change, 12 to be ready to let the duckling fly on its own.)

Anyway, my philosophy is very simple - and incredibly, people rarely ask what it is (which is depressing in its own right.) But it is in a nutshell: "Treat people with respect, and trust they wouldn't be in the job in the first place if they didn't know what they're doing, so empower them to use their judgement. Do this, and they will usually repay you." Sounds like Monarch understood this. It's depressing because so few do.

(Don't get me wrong, it's not all flowers and teddy bears - the corollary is you've got to be ready to fire and fire quickly the ones who betray the trust, for the benefit of the team. But in my experience that's normally a very small minority.)

[tubby linton]

Originally Posted by EGGW

Sad day for a once great company, 50 years with no hull loss. I hope the Montegazzas choke, whilst sipping their cocktails on the back of their Mega Yacht. You royally screwed so many loyal staff

The of Lugano screwed every penny out of it. Greybull just paid for three years of ITU care before the CAA called time on the corpse. Such a shame because it has been a brilliant company to work for, with an operational standard that was amongst the best.

[spannersatcx]

Monarch Aircraft Engineering Limited (MAEL) becomes standalone company

[harriewillem]

Blame blame blame

The general public including myself is to blame.. can you really make money on all in holidays of 600gbp Or 700eur... blame management blame The investor... But The real problem.. us The passengers want to pay peanuts...

[In Mon I Trust]

Originally Posted by In Mon I Trust

Or main customer in the facility is Flybe, yes there are 787's but you cannot over look the importance of the Q400 and Embraer that are worked here! It's bread and butter of the hangar

Ratchetring, if I may respond to you personally, as I quoted above on my post on the 26th, the bread and butter of MAEL is Flybe. Whilst there is a strong relationship with Boeing, especially at LGW and BHX hangar and one that should be pursued at all stations, the importance of Flybe to the hangar and now line stations cannot be under estimated. I am not on these line stations, but with Monarch airlines not flying, a question must be ask if there much work on any type other than the Q400 and EMB at the moment, especially at MAN AND BHX

[gearlever]

Originally Posted by tubby linton

The of Lugano screwed every penny out of it. Greybull just paid for three years of ITU care before the CAA called time on the corpse. Such a shame because it has been a brilliant company to work for, with an operational standard that was amongst the best.

So sad and disgusting. Boah.....

[southside bobby]

harriewilliam....noooo not really..
As companies innovate/use creative thinking coupled with aircraft that constantly produce better economics,evolve into LCC`s perhaps & compete with each other how can the consumer be blamed for taking advantage of that enterprise ...It`s probably called capitalism, driving or seeking an advantage over a rival business,the strong or fittest always survive ...noting the originator Southwest & of course Ryanair not withstanding the recent rostering fiasco.

[tubby linton]

Originally Posted by canberra97

I believe the Mantegazza family were unintentionally 'steering' Monarch steadily towards the 'rocks' before Greybull acquired the airline although the last three years under their control the situation has only got worse with the upsetting news we've all woken up to today with an official announcement regarding the final demise of Monarch a true end of an era in British aviation.

There was nothing unintentional about it when they discovered the pension liability.The world changed and their model required investment that they were not prepared to make. It has all been downhill since 1999,which was the last time they made any kind of investment.
The Pension Protection Fund owne a part of the company and this is now worthless.

[RAT 5]

There was speculation about ex's actions in the aftermath of AirBerlin's demise. Monarch is on its doorstep. Many crews are based at various ez bases and type-rated. Both are BALPA airlines. ez is expanding and might accelerate that expansion to fill a vacuum. What news, or is it too early?

[WHBM]

Just to clarify the question of why Monarch themselves aren’t performing the rescue flights. In law, once a company is declared insolvent and ceases trading as they did at 4am they are no longer permitted to engage in any trade whatsoever. Undertaking a revenue flight, or receiving a fee from the CAA to operate rescue flights would be against the rules. Besides that, who’s going to fuel and handle a Monarch aircraft at the moment?

Just to chip in with a boring bit, Monarch are not legally Bankrupt, they are In Administration. That is different. The administrator certainly can operate what they care to. The best example of this continuing operation was BAF/Jadepoint in the 1990's. Creditors cannot seize assets, like aircraft, for past debts when you are In Administration, the whole idea of which is to keep going what is worthwhile.

However, separately, that is UK law. This does not apply overseas, and thus the aircraft are in danger of being seized against any debt there, for fuel, airport charges, whatever. Hence you cannot operate any overseas flights without this risk.

I also don't understand the cost. At this time of year there is generally quite a bit of return capacity. Not all of it, but one would hope they started by booking the remaining available seats on UK carriers BA, Easyjet, etc, who serve many of the destinations.

Separately :

I am more than a bit sickened by Transport Secretary Chris Grayling's whoop-de-do about how wonderfully the return airlift has been organised by his department. He just seems to read the self-serving briefings from his bureaucrats without thought. Not to make any political point (there have been other incompetences by other governments) but he seems to have no empathy for any of the staff, only for advancing the careers of his own ministry staff.

[RAT 5]

yes but:
The media are reporting "the government (CAA) are chartering a/c to repatriate Monarch passengers." I've not heard this phraseology before. If that is true the government, CAA or insurance companies are paying for it. Why not pay Monarch crews & staff for performing this role rather than hugely extra payments to foreign operators? It has to be so much cheaper. Regarding the legalities of ownership of the a/c, if the UK government is involved I'm sure there is a 'Royal Seal' or 'CD' sticker that can ensure safe passage. If a CD sticker on all the Mercedes & Ferraris in London can escape anything Mr. Plod can throw at them, then the same can be true of Her Majesty's (The Monarch) airforce rescue service. Let Prince Charles fly the first a/c with his dad as jump seater. That'll shake the fuzzy wuzzies into submission.

[BusAirDriver]

First I want to say this is sad news to hear, and my best wished to all crews and passengers effected. It's quite sad indeed.

Having worked with ex Monarch guys who fled the sinking ship in time, there is a couple of things that comes to mind.

Gross mis-management of the company. Their operating costs and crew efficiency must have been one of the worst in the business, management woke up to late to try to turn it around, and they was just never going to make it, nobody that I have met who left the last few years thought Monarch would ever recover, and the gave them max 5 years to survive.

I was told stories of amazing salaries and hardly any flights during 6 winter months, there is a saying if it seems to good to be true, it normally is something wrong.

The last years decision that the company had decided to swap from Airbus to Boeing, shows how mismanaged the company still was. The change the entire fleet from Airbus to Boeing was just an absurd action by management.

From 19.th of June this year
"Monarch Airlines today confirmed an order for 15 additional Boeing 737 MAX 8s worth $1.7 billion.

The order will expand Monarch’s 737 MAX fleet from 30 to 45 aircraft, with deliveries starting next year.

The additional new generation aircraft means that Monarch will have a completely new fleet by the end of 2022.

The aim is to transform the airline, the customer experience, its environmental impact and cost base, according to CEO Andrew Swaffield."

Surely great incompetence should come in to play here, I am sorry but this kind of "surprise" does not happen overnight. (Oh yes it did, doh....!)

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I hope I'm not perceived as peremptory but I sincerely hope that someone from within will write the full story. We simply can't let a glorious half century go unrecorded, unrecognised.
There are excellent books on Skyways, Invicta, Anglo, Air Ferry, British Eagle, Dan-Air, Air Bridge and many others this great airline can not be allowed to disappear.
The journey from OM Brits to ZB Airbus must be told by those on board for the whole remarkable journey.
Please don't shred or burn the day to day documents, hopefully some one may need that research material one day.
I don't believe it possible there is someone who has done the whole 50 years but I understand there are many long service people out there.
Thank you from a very satisfied customer from 1-11s to A321s
Thank you for your time and trouble,

[Matty J]

With regards to the repatriation flights what call sign do they use?

Example being you've got Qatar Airways jets using a British Airways flight number and operating Monarch routes. So is it Qatar, Speedbird or Monarch?

Must be odd for a controller looking out of the tower and talking to an A/C thats call sign may or may not correspond to its livery.

[USERNAME_]

Can somebody explain the need for the management to set up the "SHELFCO". What was he reasoning behind it?

[cornishsimon]

caa website has a list of repat flights with flight numbers. The example you give with QR, these are using BAW callsigns.

As most if not all of the ZB fleet are leased are the aircraft still on the ground where they landed in the U.K. Or have they been flown out by the leasing companies already?

Glad to see EI offering type rated flight deck crew a recruitment event, hopefully similar will follow for cabin crew

[Alex321]

Virgin have also done the same for FD along with Easy.

Easy are holding recruitment days for the rest of the week at LTN and LGW for FD and CC. BA have opened up applications for CC at LGW and LHR for crew who already hold EASA attestations and Norwegian have opened CC recruitment.

[cornishsimon]

Well done all then.

Easy way to add to your numbers, employ someone made redundant. But let's be honest these boys and girls have gone through hell, they need to put food on the table and pay the mortgage and it's good to see others airlines stepping up so quickly

[Harry Wayfarers]

Must be odd for a controller looking out of the tower and talking to an A/C thats call sign may or may not correspond to its livery.

Only to a spotter, sub-charters take place all the time, take Titan as an example, how often do they operate under their own flight prefixes?