Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


Old 15th Sep 2017, 18:42
  #8541 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Qwerty
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by Ivor Fynn View Post
Agree with the posts above ref staff (FAR) east, took me an hour and a quarter from checkout to drive back past the terminal to get on the M56 yesterday and not much better today! OTP has been effected at most airlines out of T1/3 due to the comedy car parking and bussing.
Then the airport close 330m of taxiway to the 23R threshold (giving the controllers and operators less options for departures) and turn it into ..... you guessed it a car park!

Someone at MAG has seriously got their priorities wrong.

They might as well close 23L and turn that into a carpark as it hardly fulfills much of it's potential as second runway anyway!
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Old 15th Sep 2017, 19:46
  #8542 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,479
The airport does not provide free staff parking to my airline, it cost them.
Why when I am on minimum legal rest should I have to spend 50 minuites to travel just half a mile when on Airport roads trying to get home and arrive at work an hour before I am due to report for duty as it will take that long to get from the car park to the terminal and then through security?
I'm suggesting if your airline hadn't driven airport fees down, the airport might prioritise airline staff over paying customers.

Your airline could pay for you to park nearer the terminal - not the airports problem they are too tight to do so.

Also, not the airports fault you are on minimum rest - now who would be responsible for that? Think your problems start a bit closer to home.
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Old 15th Sep 2017, 20:49
  #8543 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 956
It will be the airports problem if it continues to effect the airlines OTP (which it is) and passengers chose to fly with different airlines or from different airports (which they are). When lack of rest is a contributory factor in an incident or (God forbid) accident the airport as well as the operator will come under the spotlight.

If the airport want the airlines to operate here and channel the pax through their shopping mall passengers and airlines/employees need to be treated as an asset!

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Old 15th Sep 2017, 21:26
  #8544 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,479
When lack of rest is a contributory factor in an incident or (God forbid) accident the airport as well as the operator will come under the spotlight.
But we regularly hear airlines saying that safety is of paramount importance. Airline staff could be parking next to the terminal if the airlines would pay for it - it is their choice that they don't.

If the airport want the airlines to operate here and channel the pax through their shopping mall passengers and airlines/employees need to be treated as an asset!
If airlines want to use airports they need to recognise that there is a price. They need to leave enough meat on the bone for every one.

They then insist on putting a price on everything and then moan when others do the same
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Old 15th Sep 2017, 21:37
  #8545 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 329
If you work at LHR I believe the staff car park is somewhere along the northern perimeter & have to take a bus in. At LGW the staff car park was nearer to Charlwood than the terminal when I worked there & a considerable bus ride in (especially to the north terminal.)
I can understand the frustrations / concerns for crew at the extension of to their working day but I don't think it is the only airport that faces this challenge. Maybe those crews based at these (& similar airports) have had duty days amended to accommodate?
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Old 15th Sep 2017, 21:43
  #8546 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 112
I work for an airport hotel transporting passengers to and from the hotel to the airport. The experience is horrendous. Regular transport to all terminals, particularly T3 is a joke. What can be done? MAG, you tell me. You are all about car parking it appears, T1 petrol station is now, a Car park!! T1 meet and greet is so badly located on a one way road leading on times of congestion to regular long queues. Don't tell me it's on odd occasions because you know it's not. Think about people not profit for a change ����
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Old 15th Sep 2017, 23:07
  #8547 (permalink)  

I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North-West England
Posts: 19
You've got to wonder about the pay scales at MAG. Similar to the airlines, for sure. The people at the top are greedy conniving types who care for nothing but lining their own pockets.

Like senior council managers, really.

Last edited by RoyHudd; 16th Sep 2017 at 14:35.
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 00:52
  #8548 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,252
I think the best way to sum up the current situation is abysmal. Car parking abysmal. Public transport abysmal.. T3 abysmal. Drop off abysmal, infrastructure abysmal. Walkways & lifts abysmal, traffic flow abysmal. Even in off peak times it's abysmal customer service. I live on the airport doorstep and seriously now looking at other options for future travel. MAG guys, I think you have reached your tipping point.
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 11:57
  #8549 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: outer hebrides
Posts: 201
They need to flatten the whole place and start again
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 12:13
  #8550 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Where the next project takes me
Posts: 190
I must admit I dread going near the place these days. I recently persuaded a client to hold a meeting online rather than have a physical meeting in the States. It saved me and others the grief of the MAN experience.
I think the only way that the owners will do something is if those of us who are members of FF schemes (particularly elite members) write to the airlines concerned and say that the experience has become intolerable.
MAG famously don't think of pax as customers (which is why they don't care about the pax experience) but the airlines and concessionaires as their customers. They will listen to the airlines.
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 21:07
  #8551 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Posts: 2,962
While I agree that the current MAN set up is a bit, well, sh*t, I do think that on the other hand, avoiding trips abroad or traveling miles out of your way to another airport is a bit OTT.

It's an airport, it's a means to getting on a plane. Does it have a loo? Does it have a place to grab some food and does it have a place to pick up a magazine and sweets for the plane? If it has those 3, I don't really care about how it looks, how it functions and such.

The airport is essentially a large waiting room. If it's not waiting for security, it's waiting for a coffee etc, what else am I going to do for the 2-3 hours other than sit in a plush chair of a lounge at most?

I think some people are just a bit precious to be honest, but maybe that me, and I focus on the holiday or business trip rather than 2 hours in an airport, you know, the actual important things in life......
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 21:20
  #8552 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,479
It saved me and others the grief of the MAN experience.
Only used MAN as a fare paying pax twice this year (Terminals 2 and 3) but it was fine - better than some, worse than others but served its purpose.
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 21:42
  #8553 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 305
Perhaps it is indeed you.

I've flown eight sectors in the last six days and can safely say that the Manchester experience was by far the worst and most stressful of any. I would go out of my way to avoid it.

Terminal 3 at peak times is like some Guinness World Record attempt to create the world's biggest stag party. No seating, no ability to get near any form of food or retail outlet due to groups standing around with nowhere else to go but with empty pint glasses littering every surface and the floor.

The biggest problem is security. Queues at MAN and EMA are some of the worst out there and a far cry from those at LGW, GLA or NCL. The MAG airports are unique in having a policy of banning passengers from using mobile devices in the queues, so your efforts to use the 20 minute wait productively to keep up to date with emails or messages are met with a shouty person whose sole purpose is to tell you that you can't use your mobile and it's for "your safety". Utter bollocks. No other uk airports do this and it's a pure MAG thing, nothing to do with DFT or CAA requirements.

The MAG queue comber then shouts at you to get your liquids and laptops out of your bag - expecting you to adopt octopus-like capabilities to carry the items and your bag separately and yet still have a free hand to pull out a tray to put these items in when you do eventually reach the screening make-up area. You are then mildly intimidated by being yelled at (again) by someone less than a metre away telling you that if you fail to get all items for separate search out of your bag, you will be delayed by at least 20 minutes.

Lax_LHR, as the chief apologist for MAG on here, please do your passengers a favour and go see how other airports do it. Gatwick, Heathrow and Glasgow would be good examples. The current pathway through MAN T3 and EMA for customers is a disgrace by comparison. It really is that bad. An airport operating safely and in compliance with regulations does not need to treat its customers so poorly and the airports need to radically change how they manage this important area of the journey. This is very specific to MAG and not a wider criticism of other airports, many of whom do this far better within similarly constrained infrastructure. It is all about procedures and staff training, where someone has sadly got hold of this at MAN and EMA to the detriment of the travelling public.
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 21:50
  #8554 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Posts: 2,962

Chief apologist? Maybe need to read line one of my post again.

The rest of my post is about airports in general. And airports in general can be a bit sh*t.

JFK regularly has immigration queues if 2 hours. I've spent 3 hours in one at LAX. 2 hours in Dallas and 1.5 in LAS.

BHX has had it bad this summer, father in law a frequent flyer too and had a bad experience in FRA, LTN a pit and even DUS had to send out advisories this week about longer security checks.

Yes, MAN is bad, but the worst? Not by a long shot. I really do question people's motives or true travelling habits if MAN is the worst they have seen.

If course it can and should be done better, but If the above makes me an apologist, then I honestly don't care, I shan't be loosing any sleep, that's a certainty!
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 07:34
  #8555 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 61
Posts: 556
"They might as well close 23L and turn that into a carpark as it hardly fulfills much of it's potential as second runway anyway".

No idea on the Manchester experience but like MAG'S other major offering STN. I assume it's functional.

My main point however is runways.I would ask somebody in Air traffic if they agree with the statement above ?

Given the eyewatering figures for a new runway at Heathrow I would say the cost of the second runway at Manchester was a bargain.

Brighter people than me will know the figures but I doubt Manchester could achieve 28m on a single runway operation due to the close proximity of the terminal.

In terms of cost be in no doubt it was a bargain if compared to a similar structure of
8,000,000,000 million at Heathrow.

Last edited by Navpi; 17th Sep 2017 at 17:00.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 11:09
  #8556 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: man
Posts: 44
I had a lovely trip from TXL via LHR to MAN with BA where I had the pleasure to get stuck in the "FAST TRACK" lane for security in LHR T5 for 90min. I had 5 minutes spare to catch my flight to MAN. But to top it of on arrival in MAN I had the next pleasure to get told that my bag was still in LHR. Be careful what you wish for! Bye the way MAN offer Fast track security for 5 pond a person ( but hang on on there is an offer 2 people for 7.50 pound).
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 20:36
  #8557 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 39
MAN imperfect, but what's the alternative?

I think BTNH is closer to the truth than most.

MAN may not be an entirely pleasurable experience ( some terminals more than others), but if the alternative is to fly from LHR then it's no contest.

The train is undoubtedly the least stressful way to come and go - the main priority there is better services to places south of MCR, and services which cover more hours of the day/night. An 0600 flight departure or a 2200 arrival may rule out the train to and from home.
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Old 17th Sep 2017, 23:12
  #8558 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The North
Posts: 158
Services to Manchester City Centre and south Manchester are well covered through both day & night.

MAG, Northern & Network Rail should work to introduce overnight services to Warrington and Liverpool initially and daytime services towards Crewe & Birmingham.

The best hope is that the Metrolink network begins 24 hour operation (on certain lines) to provide local overnight connectivity.
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