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Old 18th Jan 2016, 16:28
  #4061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 559
Skipness,

You're absolutely right regarding the use of slots but I think the context of Ringwayman's comment is the feed which Flybe etc provides to MAN's long-haul routes. If the sub-100 seaters which increasingly feed the likes of CX / VS / MT and the ME3 were to be priced-out in favour of A320s/B737s then MAN's long haul loads might suffer. One CX flight recently picked up 80 connecting pax at MAN, 20-30 is common, and so it is a small but growing trend.
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Old 18th Jan 2016, 17:04
  #4062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
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3rd runway?
hello

i don't post much on this forum but follow it regularly as i do with another forum 'skyscrapercity.com'. In the Manchester section there's a chat about Manchester's Economy and one of the posters submitted this yesterday; see esp. point 4. Is this/can this be true? Does anyone know more about this (tower configuration and/or any planning for a potential 3rd runway), it's the first time I've heard about it:

START:
I've been given some interesting info about Airport City.

Apparently:

1) EBay are joining Amazon in opening up a big distribution hub.
2) A US investment bank is opening up a UK head office at the development rather than in London.
3) The Chinese National Investment Bank are also opening a head office on the site.
4) The new control tower has been configured to allow the development of a third runway which will be situated at the Knutsford end of the site.

ENDS
Good luck with that!

Very good to see some forward long term thinking for a change!

Don't be sidetracked by nonsense such as government suggestions for a "second" Manchester airport in the (Mersey?) estuary, as was the case when LHR needed a third rwy in the 1970s, or by a "second force" set up at LPL to "compete" with MAN, as was the case with LGW when LHR needed a third rwy in the 1980s.

Learn from the LHR experience: don't put up with 50 years of government indecision, procrastination and dither.



Not quite sure how that's relevant. If Gatwick had 2 runways they probably wouldn't need to price out sub 100 seaters!
Not necessarily so.

At present the smaller carriers are priced out to allow larger operators to maximise throughput as Skipness states. This is to do with slot constraints at certain times of the day (same as LHR except there it's all day every day).

With no slot constraints (2 rwys) charges may be as high in order to pay for the second rwy.

Unfortunately, pricing out smaller aircraft reduces the number of potential feeder flights, reducing LGW's ability to be an effective hub, even with 2 rwys.

Doesn't appear to be an example that MAN should follow.
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Old 18th Jan 2016, 19:02
  #4063 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
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Hi Frank -

I'm not sure where that quote comes from but MAN's new VCR was constructed to address contemporary issues, not some notional future third runway. Specifically, the old VCR could not comply with ICAO siting recommendations with reference to its location in relation to the new second runway [05R/23L]. The original VCR required cameras to provide coverage of 05R threshold. It also had restricted views of certain new stands, including all of those to the east of Pier A on T3. And of course, MAG harboured long-term ambitions to demolish the old part of T1 atop which sits the original VCR. Relocation of ATC to the new VCR site releases that old block for eventual demolition as part of the TP. Those were the reasons for the new VCR, not a plan for R3.

By default, the new VCR would be better situated for any eventual R3 simply because it is higher and does not suffer the degree of inhibited sightlines which afflicted the old one. But, given the rate at which new technology is evolving in the field of aerodrome control, it would be unwise to plan a facility based on today's criteria around a potential new use more than a generation from now.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 09:06
  #4064 (permalink)  
 
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The Hainan service will now operate using A330-300 a/c instead of the smaller A330-200
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 10:34
  #4065 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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The a330 300 is a significant increase in capacity, would this indicate good fwd bookings ?

On a theme the Etihad Tour have introduced Mandarin tour guides, precisely what I have been advocating for:

MUFC
Trafford Centre
Chester Oaks
Lake District
Chatsworth
NW Coach Tours
Et al

Last edited by Bagso; 20th Jan 2016 at 12:32.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 10:51
  #4066 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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What's happening with the Air China Shanghai route?

Nothing on website booking - leaving it late to commence S16.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 10:51
  #4067 (permalink)  
 
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The Hainan service will now operate using A330-300 a/c instead of the smaller A330-200
Surprised an A333 has the legs for that?
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 11:05
  #4068 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wycombe View Post
Surprised an A333 has the legs for that?
Well within range. Turkish operate the A333 on IST-CGK which is about 700nm farther.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 11:20
  #4069 (permalink)  
 
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Hainan Airlines looks like an extra 70 seats per flight based upon info from Seatguru. Config listed for the A333 is 32+260.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 12:15
  #4070 (permalink)  
 
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LAXLHR

If you are around out there...you wrote this on January 5th.....any updates??
Thanks in advance.

In terms of new routes, get ready for a period of announcements from about 2 weeks from now. We should be having 2-3 routes confirmed that we know of, and at least 3 new routes that have not been discussed on here to my knowledge.
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 13:07
  #4071 (permalink)  
 
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LAXLHR
If you are around out there...you wrote this on January 5th.....any updates??
To be fair, he said 'from about 2 weeks from now'. It's only just 2 weeks so still time hopefully.

What's happening with the Air China Shanghai route?
Nothing on website booking - leaving it late to commence S16.
We know Air China got approval for the route. Do we know for certain they have slots in?
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 15:35
  #4072 (permalink)  
 
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Location: North of Watford Gap
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Yes, where are you LAX are you OK?
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 21:50
  #4073 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry, been away for a while.

In terms of the new routes, 2 of the new routes have now been postponed due to the situation in Tunisia. They were to be 3 weekly NBE and 2 weekly DJE with Nouvelair. (Appreciate not 'new' in the traditional sense but still a route that didn't operate with that carrier last summer so 'new' in the sense it's an increase year on year.

The other route is just delayed, but will go hand in hand with some other increases due.

The Air China flights are still poised to start. Air China have started a few long haul routes with little lead in time recently, so, all is not lost.

In terms of Hainan, this is the confirmation from them about the A330-300:

News List

Interesting MAN is lumped in the 'trans-pacific' increases?

There are some irons in the fire, they are just not happening as quickly as lead to believe. Some of them have had a semi-public confirmation from the airlines, just waiting for the final push now.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 02:27
  #4074 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Las Vegas

Virgin is now planning A330-300 aircraft on MAN-LAS from 24/7 to 01/9, with 3 weekly flights on Tue/Thu/Sun. Previously they were planning to use A340-600s over the same period.
For the rest of the season flights remain 2 weekly using 744.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 08:21
  #4075 (permalink)  
 
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Las Vegas
Virgin is now planning A330-300 aircraft on MAN-LAS from 24/7 to 01/9, with 3 weekly flights on Tue/Thu/Sun. Previously they were planning to use A340-600s over the same period.
For the rest of the season flights remain 2 weekly using 744.
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Is this because the B747 is required at GLA or BFS for Orlando flights?

Perhaps the higher frequency to LAS is considered preferable to more overall capacity at that time of the year anyway. The A333 has 798 seats for the 3 flights weekly in each direction compared to the 910 seats in the LGW version of the B747 for 2 weekly flights.

According to seat guru, the A333 is 266 seats compared to 316 in the A346.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 13:48
  #4076 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 1,578

As if to illustrate the problem we sometimes have with awareness of Manchester's long-haul offering...


Excellent observation by Roverman off another forum refeerring to some Hainan marketing, hopefully NOW addressed.

Here here to getting the message out there. MPs, business leader writers take note.

But whose fault is this, should there be a wee bit more table thumping from Olympic House ?
Should we take a lead from Scotland ?

PR up here is sometimes as quiet as a church mouse. I do understand that you don't want banner headlines that attact the tree hugging nutters BUT their are surely subtle ways to "up the anti" in a sophisticated manner that draws in all interested parties.

On a theme Manchester City this week annouced their tours would now be carried in Mandarin in order to attract the Chinese market its precisley what The Trafford Centre, Cheshire Oaks, Manchester United , Chatworth House , Lake District/Yorkshire hotspots and the NWales Castles and the Victorian seaside resorts of Southport and LLandudno need to be doing. As well of course as Hoteliers, Coach operators etc.
It actually made TheDailyMail Online best bit of "national" publicity for months.

The London market is already geared up for mass marketing it need not do anything as all the key components are in place. Manchester nay The North has to try 10 times harder. Is there a level of naivety in our area which needs to be addressed ?

By way of example does the Marketing Manager of Chatsworth know about Hainan/ AirChina and the opportunity presented , maybe they do, what about the others. Do hoteliers in N Wales have any idea that the Chinese absolutely love our Victorian seaside resorts.
Do they get invited to Manchester Airport to understand the offer ?

I just get the impression and hope I am wrong that everybody is looking over their shoulder waiting or assuming something will happen ?
Our tourist hotspots need to be selling themselves to the Chinese tourist trade but all the other constituent elements starting with signage at Manchester Airport , Mandarin Hosts, coach transfers, hotels etc etc all need to be in place.

I feel it needs one agency to drive a cohesive strategy that really capitalises on this opportunity but who is that ?

Marketing Manchester is very "upbeat", they did an excellent job with the Etihad promoting the Chinese connections but they tend to focus purely on Manchester, @Visit Britain are of course beyond useless.

We want these Chinese flights to be a gateway to the whole of the North Of England and indeed N Wales not just Manchester, BUT it needs in your face marketing and workshops etc to drive the message home with all stakeholders.

In the last 3 months some high profile appointments have been made internally at Manchester, excellent news but as the end of January approaches, the strategy/template must be in place.

We now need to see those appts bear fruit with some high visibilty offereing.

Last edited by Bagso; 21st Jan 2016 at 14:14.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 14:54
  #4077 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
Posts: 203
I don`t really use twitter but re-tweeting things I would have thought
would be a good start.

Ian
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 15:29
  #4078 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Valencia
Posts: 210
Hainan certainly seem to be promoting MAN/PEK now as I have had several ads for the service now on newspaper web sites, something I find few other carriers serving MAN doing.

Also, just looked at FR24, and Monarch's G-OZBE is making some lovely star-shaped tracks around the apron at MAN today. Any idea what it's doing?

Last edited by FFHKG; 21st Jan 2016 at 16:29.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 19:43
  #4079 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 107
Well within range. Turkish operate the A333 on IST-CGK which is about 700nm farther.
5,042 mi on the great circle mapper....that is still a long way for an older A333. IST-CGK is 5,868 but is A332 not A333 TK56 schedule. (Turkish Airlines flight: Istanbul -> Jakarta) and https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY56

Longest A333 route currently might be IST-ORD at 5,491 mi?

If so only ~450nm shorter than the longest counts as long in my book!
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 20:14
  #4080 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: manchester
Posts: 268
Wikipedia lists longest flights by type.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-st..._aircraft_type
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