EDINBURGH - 2
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787's will be a lot to fill....If its 738's (obviously only to East Coast) then theyre not everyones transatlantic cup of tea. Will need to keep an eye on the US DY authorisation unrest... Isnt BOS already a sticky wicket?
Will watch this with interest.
Will watch this with interest.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Glasgow
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Feels like Glasgow is slowly losing that title.
Its clear that Edinburgh is easily the number 1 airport in Scotland now. It has always been strong to the European cities, but with this potential Norwegian expansion especially to as far as the US west coast, its a major threat to Glasgow's claim. Its slightly lagged in a way behind GLA for long haul because of the shorter run way and the fact likes of Orlando, Vegas and the Caribbean are popular with Glasgow holiday makers. Glasgow will still be very strong on the sunshine routes as it always has especially with Ryanair now beginning to operate more leisure routes from GLA.
It cannot touch EDI for inbound tourism however, and also GLA is terribly located. Numerous people the GLA catchment in places like North Lanarkshire find it much easier to travel to EDI being on the west of Edinburgh and avoid the GLA rush. Glasgow can't maintain routes to places like Frankfurt, Madrid, Copenhagen and so on. They may only be 50 miles apart but the clientele attracted by both are very very different in my opinion.
Glasgow could probably maintain services to the likes of Boston, but its finding an operator willing to take the risk. The west coast for me though, absolutely no chance. There isn't the catchment, the business community or the tourism in Glasgow to support a route to a place like LA or SF.
As for Aberdeen, that is dying a death thanks to the oil industry. Expansion there? Forget it.
Its clear that Edinburgh is easily the number 1 airport in Scotland now. It has always been strong to the European cities, but with this potential Norwegian expansion especially to as far as the US west coast, its a major threat to Glasgow's claim. Its slightly lagged in a way behind GLA for long haul because of the shorter run way and the fact likes of Orlando, Vegas and the Caribbean are popular with Glasgow holiday makers. Glasgow will still be very strong on the sunshine routes as it always has especially with Ryanair now beginning to operate more leisure routes from GLA.
It cannot touch EDI for inbound tourism however, and also GLA is terribly located. Numerous people the GLA catchment in places like North Lanarkshire find it much easier to travel to EDI being on the west of Edinburgh and avoid the GLA rush. Glasgow can't maintain routes to places like Frankfurt, Madrid, Copenhagen and so on. They may only be 50 miles apart but the clientele attracted by both are very very different in my opinion.
Glasgow could probably maintain services to the likes of Boston, but its finding an operator willing to take the risk. The west coast for me though, absolutely no chance. There isn't the catchment, the business community or the tourism in Glasgow to support a route to a place like LA or SF.
As for Aberdeen, that is dying a death thanks to the oil industry. Expansion there? Forget it.
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GLA is terribly located. Numerous people the GLA catchment in places like North Lanarkshire find it much easier to travel to EDI being on the west of Edinburgh and avoid the GLA rush
Last edited by billyg; 25th May 2016 at 19:46.
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If you are living somewhere in North Lanarkshire like Airdrie, you can whizz along the M8 to Edinburgh or get stuck in a traffic jam towards the Kingston Bridge and the centre of Glasgow.
Join Date: Mar 2015
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That was certainly the case in the past , but the M74 extension has put that to rights as it joins the M8 to the west of the city. Worth noting that domestic traffic at EDI took a drop recently while at GLA there is a sustained increase. Glasgow could well be winning back the commuters who for a while were using EDI ?
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Its slightly lagged in a way behind GLA for long haul because of the shorter run way and the fact likes of Orlando, Vegas and the Caribbean are popular with Glasgow holiday makers.
It has always been strong to the European cities
Times changed and what GLA did to PIK, EDI is now doing to GLA (sort of). The key driver has been an enormous leap in inbound tourism coupled with the rise of Edinburgh's role in government and Holyrood raising the profile internationally. Remember when Air Canada came back to Scotland, they chose EDI over GLA, United have three daily out of EDI and one out of GLA, something my younger self would not have believed.
The main thing is both are now seeing healthy growth. IMHO EDI risks doing an LCY. Really hacking off frequent fliers by not having the facilities to support a hugely increased throughput. Time will tell.
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Stand corrected and you are also specifically correct about the long haul.
How long do you think GLA's growth can be sustained? I have my doubts because it doesn't have the business community or inbound tourism that EDI does. EDI on the otherhand I just see continued growth for years to come.
How long do you think GLA's growth can be sustained? I have my doubts because it doesn't have the business community or inbound tourism that EDI does. EDI on the otherhand I just see continued growth for years to come.
Join Date: Jan 2016
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GLA will do perfectly well and will sustain growth for a good few years. They can sustain business flights, Glasgow is a large economic powerhouse, some big businesses are based in Glasgow.
AC did choose EDI over GLA but look what they are doing now they are dropping one of their weekly EDI flights and putting that on at GLA.
Tourism in Glasgow is growing, and events like the Commonwealth games have had a positive impact on the city.
AC did choose EDI over GLA but look what they are doing now they are dropping one of their weekly EDI flights and putting that on at GLA.
Tourism in Glasgow is growing, and events like the Commonwealth games have had a positive impact on the city.
Last edited by sf01; 25th May 2016 at 22:30.
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Feels like Glasgow is slowly losing that title.
Its clear that Edinburgh is easily the number 1 airport in Scotland now. It has always been strong to the European cities, but with this potential Norwegian expansion especially to as far as the US west coast, its a major threat to Glasgow's claim. Its slightly lagged in a way behind GLA for long haul because of the shorter run way and the fact likes of Orlando, Vegas and the Caribbean are popular with Glasgow holiday makers. Glasgow will still be very strong on the sunshine routes as it always has especially with Ryanair now beginning to operate more leisure routes from GLA.
It cannot touch EDI for inbound tourism however, and also GLA is terribly located. Numerous people the GLA catchment in places like North Lanarkshire find it much easier to travel to EDI being on the west of Edinburgh and avoid the GLA rush. Glasgow can't maintain routes to places like Frankfurt, Madrid, Copenhagen and so on. They may only be 50 miles apart but the clientele attracted by both are very very different in my opinion.
Glasgow could probably maintain services to the likes of Boston, but its finding an operator willing to take the risk. The west coast for me though, absolutely no chance. There isn't the catchment, the business community or the tourism in Glasgow to support a route to a place like LA or SF.
As for Aberdeen, that is dying a death thanks to the oil industry. Expansion there? Forget it.
Its clear that Edinburgh is easily the number 1 airport in Scotland now. It has always been strong to the European cities, but with this potential Norwegian expansion especially to as far as the US west coast, its a major threat to Glasgow's claim. Its slightly lagged in a way behind GLA for long haul because of the shorter run way and the fact likes of Orlando, Vegas and the Caribbean are popular with Glasgow holiday makers. Glasgow will still be very strong on the sunshine routes as it always has especially with Ryanair now beginning to operate more leisure routes from GLA.
It cannot touch EDI for inbound tourism however, and also GLA is terribly located. Numerous people the GLA catchment in places like North Lanarkshire find it much easier to travel to EDI being on the west of Edinburgh and avoid the GLA rush. Glasgow can't maintain routes to places like Frankfurt, Madrid, Copenhagen and so on. They may only be 50 miles apart but the clientele attracted by both are very very different in my opinion.
Glasgow could probably maintain services to the likes of Boston, but its finding an operator willing to take the risk. The west coast for me though, absolutely no chance. There isn't the catchment, the business community or the tourism in Glasgow to support a route to a place like LA or SF.
As for Aberdeen, that is dying a death thanks to the oil industry. Expansion there? Forget it.
EDI's runway is only a few hundred metres shorter than GLA's, it's more about the infrastructure. EDI is not built for regular multiple widebody operations, GLA is. The services you name are popular with far more than just 'Glasgow holiday makers', more specifically the whole of Scotland and more often than not Northern England as well.
As for location, GLA is hardly 'terribly located'. Granted, congestion on the M8 can cause issues, but the same goes for the east coast. Neither is relevant to the location of the airport, though. EDI has the slight advantage of being to the west of the city and therefore closer to Glasgow city centre than GLA is to Edinburgh city centre. That said, GLA has the advantage of direct mototrway access.
As for being 'unable to maintain' routes to MAD, FRA and CPH - that's simply not true. Iberia, Lufthansa and Ryanair/SAS would prove that any of said routes were launched.
Lastly, stating that GLA could not support flights to LA or SF while implying that EDI can is rather bold without hard evidence to back it up.
As for the title, if you count the number of long-haul destinations from GLA and EDI there is a substantial difference.
I believe Thomson are starting longhaul ops from BRS to Florida and beyond next year using 787's. If that's the case I'm pretty sure EDI can manage further longhaul expansion given the difference in runway lengths. Infrastructure however is something else. Many on here have complained about security queues along with crowded check in desks etc. The question is can EDI cope with further expansion without spending millions on terminal expansion to sustain growth for the future?
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Glasgow and Edinburgh have pretty similar sized catchments, but Edinburgh has a much greater number of inbound tourists and if you have a flight as unique as SFO then I also think people will come from as far as Glasgow to use it. Its hardly a ten a penny flight to a med destination. I don't think you can compare the Edinburgh end of the M8 or the likes of the city bypass to Glasgow's urban motorway either and road is the only real means of access to GLA. I only live in Bishopbriggs and it can take me as much as 45 minutes during peak times to get from the m8/80 merge to the Kingston Bridge.
I mean the likes of CPH I can see a place for in Glasgow when there are 4 operators at Edinburgh, because not all of the 100k+ people using that service are going to Edinburgh. Surely though if these services were viable, they wouldn't have been dropped or they'd be being run again already?
I mean the likes of CPH I can see a place for in Glasgow when there are 4 operators at Edinburgh, because not all of the 100k+ people using that service are going to Edinburgh. Surely though if these services were viable, they wouldn't have been dropped or they'd be being run again already?
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LC re RWY Lengths
Its History.
It was a critical factor in the days of Tridents,1-11's, DC8's and Boeing’s.
Its less so now with the coming of 777's, AB350's and especially 787's.
Its still important (think of BHX) but for a temperate climate, range & payload are much less restricted for a given TODA, temperature and given local air pressure.
The extra 300 Metres can be essential but its a statistical problem. The Pavement strength can now be a limiting factor - See prev posts re EDI.
Obviously the shorter the runway the more limited payload/range combination.
CAT III
It was a critical factor in the days of Tridents,1-11's, DC8's and Boeing’s.
Its less so now with the coming of 777's, AB350's and especially 787's.
Its still important (think of BHX) but for a temperate climate, range & payload are much less restricted for a given TODA, temperature and given local air pressure.
The extra 300 Metres can be essential but its a statistical problem. The Pavement strength can now be a limiting factor - See prev posts re EDI.
Obviously the shorter the runway the more limited payload/range combination.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 26th May 2016 at 13:10. Reason: Absence of limiting factors
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Lots of these services were dropped during the financial downturn when all airpots took a hit.
More and more European services are starting from GLA, the return of Air France only helps prove that. Ryanair will likely add some more European routes.
More and more European services are starting from GLA, the return of Air France only helps prove that. Ryanair will likely add some more European routes.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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I have serious doubts about Glasgow as a visitors destination to maintain a route like SFO.
Its a different world from Edinburgh. We could argue till the cows come home though.
Its a different world from Edinburgh. We could argue till the cows come home though.
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I have serious doubts about Glasgow as a visitors destination to maintain a route like SFO.
It's not THAT different a world in Edinburgh, I've lived in both. Now Cumbria, that's a proper different world, mainly sheep
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Inbound visitors to Edinburgh in 2014: 1,585,000
Inbound visitors to Glasgow in 2014: 624,000
https://www.visitbritain.org/town-data
Inbound visitors to Glasgow in 2014: 624,000
https://www.visitbritain.org/town-data
Join Date: Dec 2003
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But in actual fact Manchester also serves the surrounding area and with Liverpool 45 minutes away it would be nonsense not to aggregate the two cities. On that basis its actually Manchester which would have the stronger case.
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With the new extension to the M74 I can get from Johnstone to the Hamilton Services in North Lanarkshire in 20 minutes so we no longer have queues on the M8 to get through Glasgow. From
Stirling and the north route the M73/M74. Even with the old Stratclyde Region housing HALF the population of Scotland, the road network is one hundred times better than the Edinburgh Bypass.
Want a flight to Mexico, Florida or Los Angeles, come to Glasgow
Stirling and the north route the M73/M74. Even with the old Stratclyde Region housing HALF the population of Scotland, the road network is one hundred times better than the Edinburgh Bypass.
Want a flight to Mexico, Florida or Los Angeles, come to Glasgow