British Airways
I was not suggesting a British management would be better-in fact recent evidence tends to suggest that among the last people you want running anything with a long term view to be Brits . Not that Sr Cruz seems to be any better and with Brexit looming the phrase British and Irish will disappear since the irish will become 'them' part of the evil anti British European conspiracy known as the EU.
I was just wondering if Spain , like Ireland , has some special attractions for slightly risque corporate adventures and while the operational base kind of has to be where the main day to day action is the domicile/country of registry is where the big decisions get taken. That is obviously better in an Eu country but IAG being based in Spain was way before Brexit.
I was just wondering if Spain , like Ireland , has some special attractions for slightly risque corporate adventures and while the operational base kind of has to be where the main day to day action is the domicile/country of registry is where the big decisions get taken. That is obviously better in an Eu country but IAG being based in Spain was way before Brexit.
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I made the point about "NATIONAL " subsidies - such as we see at Alitalia - MOL plays the local game for all it's worth - you have to ask why others didn't do the same.......
Pax's point is partially correct - different jurisdictions have different rules and generally there is pressure to move to the most accommodating - you can call it Capitalism, or The Market
Pax's point is partially correct - different jurisdictions have different rules and generally there is pressure to move to the most accommodating - you can call it Capitalism, or The Market
HH
Well actually i think my point is entirely right when it comes to country of registration/domicile call it what you will.
its why Aeroflot aircraft have Bermuda registrations and many US companies have their European HQ to ireland a very small part of the overall EU market in order to get low corproation tax.
We hear so much about the pro business environment that UK has that i still do not understand why IAG s registered office and therefore where all the key decisions are taken and board meetings are held is in Madrid and not London. It doesnt seem that other big international groups are based there unless they are primarily involved with Spain and latam and the biggest part of IAG is BA whose primary business is elsewhere.
it also emans off course that where there is the potential for direct Government intervention with BA through IAG in the form of tax breaks or penalties or other key financial incentives or burdens they will be imposed by Spain or the Eu as Uk Government has no influence at all other than on regulatory matters mostly those affecting LHR .
Well actually i think my point is entirely right when it comes to country of registration/domicile call it what you will.
its why Aeroflot aircraft have Bermuda registrations and many US companies have their European HQ to ireland a very small part of the overall EU market in order to get low corproation tax.
We hear so much about the pro business environment that UK has that i still do not understand why IAG s registered office and therefore where all the key decisions are taken and board meetings are held is in Madrid and not London. It doesnt seem that other big international groups are based there unless they are primarily involved with Spain and latam and the biggest part of IAG is BA whose primary business is elsewhere.
it also emans off course that where there is the potential for direct Government intervention with BA through IAG in the form of tax breaks or penalties or other key financial incentives or burdens they will be imposed by Spain or the Eu as Uk Government has no influence at all other than on regulatory matters mostly those affecting LHR .
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Seeing as the EU state that ' National ' subsidies are illegal, they would have stopped any such subsidies to Alitalia ( if that's what they are ) by now.
Oh...Hang on....
As for different countries having different jurisdictions....
I think the Irishman doesn't actually play the game at all - he just ignores the game's rules when it suits him, and screams to the heavens when the competition does the same.
But as you say, he spotted the opportunities which the EU provided and exploited them perfectly. But you can't blame BA for not wanting to fly a route betwen Katowice and Gerona at €10 per pop - EU subsidies or none....
Oh...Hang on....
As for different countries having different jurisdictions....
I think the Irishman doesn't actually play the game at all - he just ignores the game's rules when it suits him, and screams to the heavens when the competition does the same.
But as you say, he spotted the opportunities which the EU provided and exploited them perfectly. But you can't blame BA for not wanting to fly a route betwen Katowice and Gerona at €10 per pop - EU subsidies or none....
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pax britanica
IIRC a big chunk of Iberia was owned by the Spanish Government and as part of the deal to take over Iberia IAG agreed to base itself in Spain. Politics trumping good business sense. Just like RBS keeping its head office in Scotland to appease those north of the border agin the takeover of NatWest. Wait a minute - that didn't work out too well either did it?
i still do not understand why IAG s registered office and therefore where all the key decisions are taken and board meetings are held is in Madrid and not London
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pax britanica
Just regarding the AFL western build fleet I always understood the leasing companies themselves insist on VP/VQ registration as then they are more easily recoverable under international law in the case of default etc.
Just regarding the AFL western build fleet I always understood the leasing companies themselves insist on VP/VQ registration as then they are more easily recoverable under international law in the case of default etc.
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pax britanica
Wrong in the case of Aeroflot actually there are two more important reasons lessors want access to their assets quickly if needs be and Russian import duties are astronomical.
Corporation tax is the least of their worries as Putin and mates sort that bit out !
IAG was floated in both Madrid and London reprentative of the valuation of BA and IB at the time of merger.
BA retain full day to day control of their and UK subsidiary operations from London record profit and loss and pay relevant UK taxes. Iberia follow the same principle is Spain.
Also ensures retention of National Traffic rights beyond the EU Morocco Israel Switzerland and US that might be break bilateral treaty rules with a fully merged business
You can not buy shares directly in either group company today as these are all held by IAG from original valuation and split
IAG is the holding company set targets authorise major expenditure and is the publically listed company
One thing this set up does allow for is relatively speaking an easy process of demerger or even closer of either BA or IB or indeed EI or VY if deemed in the interests of IAG at any point.
All that said I cannot for the life work out what Niki brings to the table at the moment.
Wrong in the case of Aeroflot actually there are two more important reasons lessors want access to their assets quickly if needs be and Russian import duties are astronomical.
Corporation tax is the least of their worries as Putin and mates sort that bit out !
IAG was floated in both Madrid and London reprentative of the valuation of BA and IB at the time of merger.
BA retain full day to day control of their and UK subsidiary operations from London record profit and loss and pay relevant UK taxes. Iberia follow the same principle is Spain.
Also ensures retention of National Traffic rights beyond the EU Morocco Israel Switzerland and US that might be break bilateral treaty rules with a fully merged business
You can not buy shares directly in either group company today as these are all held by IAG from original valuation and split
IAG is the holding company set targets authorise major expenditure and is the publically listed company
One thing this set up does allow for is relatively speaking an easy process of demerger or even closer of either BA or IB or indeed EI or VY if deemed in the interests of IAG at any point.
All that said I cannot for the life work out what Niki brings to the table at the moment.
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Regardless of IAG's shenanigans re registered office/boardroom etc, British Airways is still a British registered company and is still filing accounts with Companies House.
I don't know if my memory is playing tricks but I seem to remember BA were about to buy Iberia at a time when Iberia were not doing too well but the EU stepped in more or less forced the subsequent "marriage" and the creation of IAG. Have I remembered this correctly?
I don't know if my memory is playing tricks but I seem to remember BA were about to buy Iberia at a time when Iberia were not doing too well but the EU stepped in more or less forced the subsequent "marriage" and the creation of IAG. Have I remembered this correctly?
yes dead right about Aeroflot I had overlooked that there are two parties to aircraft ownership so often these days.
Rutan thanks-that explains things -I just could not figure out why anyone would be registered in Madrid rather than London but as you say there are obscure reasons fro them doing it.
i am not quite sure how wholly British BA can be though as ultimately you have to have a Company registration somewhere and if IAG own BA then ultimately many important decisions are taken away from uk. In these multi jurisdictional cases usually one is allowed to have a majority of board meetings in a specified place-ultimate ownership location not necessarily all of them .
Mind you with an Irish head of business and Spaniard as both Chairman and CEO (never ever a good arrangement in my mind) the 'britishness is already watered down a fair bit.
And of course we have to pay for the water too
Rutan thanks-that explains things -I just could not figure out why anyone would be registered in Madrid rather than London but as you say there are obscure reasons fro them doing it.
i am not quite sure how wholly British BA can be though as ultimately you have to have a Company registration somewhere and if IAG own BA then ultimately many important decisions are taken away from uk. In these multi jurisdictional cases usually one is allowed to have a majority of board meetings in a specified place-ultimate ownership location not necessarily all of them .
Mind you with an Irish head of business and Spaniard as both Chairman and CEO (never ever a good arrangement in my mind) the 'britishness is already watered down a fair bit.
And of course we have to pay for the water too
Politically, it would be seen as bad news to announce removal of the tax, which would be made much of by opposition both inside and outside the government among the large numbers who remember the days when everything was Soviet made and there were many aircraft factories, which with their adjacent cities now lie idle. Better to just not apply it to aircraft registered outside the country. Nobody realises the tax is not being collected anyway. So it says VP instead of RA on the back of the aircraft. So what. They are non-Cyrillic alphabet hieroglyphs anyway.
Other countries (Italy is one) do indeed have legal lease recovery issues that cause the lessor to register the aircraft elsewhere; Ireland is popular for these. A number of Latin American airlines have new aircraft registered in the USA for similar reasons.
Last edited by WHBM; 30th Dec 2017 at 21:39.
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Dynamic Scheduling.
Do BA really need 8 flights to/from Aberdeen on New Year's Day.
It's not long ago that Dyce didn't even open on 01st Jan.
I'm sure the load factor is well south of 50%.
I thought dynamic scheduling was the new thing.
It's not long ago that Dyce didn't even open on 01st Jan.
I'm sure the load factor is well south of 50%.
I thought dynamic scheduling was the new thing.
Last edited by BCALBOY; 30th Dec 2017 at 19:55. Reason: Spell correct
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With the equivalent of 9 based airframes to fill after the purchase of Monarch slots at Gatwick, purchasing Niki gives Vueling 20 plus additional airframes and just importantly crew, to fill the void?
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BCal.
On this day, in the early 80's, I operated my first sector as a captain for British Airways.
No passengers turned up to partake of this flight.
The route ABZ - GLA!!
I am pleased to say that the subsequent sectors were well attended!
On this day, in the early 80's, I operated my first sector as a captain for British Airways.
No passengers turned up to partake of this flight.
The route ABZ - GLA!!
I am pleased to say that the subsequent sectors were well attended!
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I don't think there are any trains from Aberdeen on the 1st. There will be large numbers of people who have to return to work in the south on the 2nd.
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During 2018 new airframes are also being delivered to LHR. This will free some existing aircraft in the fleet for Gatwick. Furthermore leases can be extended and retirements deferred.
Qatar wet-leases again ........
..... but do they have currently 9 spare airframes and crew?
See Part 3 A of CAA Bulletin 2258 - Application to CAA December 4th.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/2258.pdf
LFH
.................
Last edited by Lordflasheart; 2nd Jan 2018 at 08:01. Reason: reinstatement of quote