Snow cancelations Heathrow
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I noticed a flight to Frankfurt yesterday was being operated by a B767 - I
very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft.
very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft.
I very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft
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Quote: "Don't know much about BA's operation - would I be right in thinking that the disruption has been overhyped slightly? The airline are only cancelling flights which have several rotations a day. For example, the major hubs in Europe and North America.
And where available, merging flights onto larger aircraft? I very much doubt the load factor would be huge, especially on some routes. I noticed a flight to Frankfurt yesterday was being operated by a B767 - I very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft. Obviously BA have flexibility in their aircraft unlike other airlines, some aircraft may be utilised when they were originally planned for down days.
Passengers are also given the option to rebook, so that'll free up some space. A lot of extra passengers will be catered for. They've also got their Oneworld and other codeshare partners to "help them out".
Or am I talking rubbish?!"
No.
It makes sense to cancel some of the flights on high frequency routes rather than the once/day flights. The former tend to be short haul, the latter long haul.
With high freqency flights, at least pax can reach their destinations sometime the same day, even if it means using large equipment as flights are "combined", using 767s rather than 319s/320s/321s.
It's less disruptive than cancelling lower frequency long haul flights, which could mean capacity/overcrowding problems the next day, and aircraft on the wrong continent, etc..
Obviously load factors, particularly premium business load factors, also play a part in determining which flights are cancelled.
Weather conditions at the destination airports have to be considered, of course, which in the case of short haul flights, are likely to be similar.
Quote: "In terms of Heathrow Airport itself, I'd be using this opportunity to lobby the government that cancellations would be mitigated somewhat if extra airport capacity was available! I heard someone on The One Show this evening saying that Munich had 1m of snow alongside the runway and there were no cancellations - they also have same capacity for half the passengers!"
Exactly.
And where available, merging flights onto larger aircraft? I very much doubt the load factor would be huge, especially on some routes. I noticed a flight to Frankfurt yesterday was being operated by a B767 - I very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft. Obviously BA have flexibility in their aircraft unlike other airlines, some aircraft may be utilised when they were originally planned for down days.
Passengers are also given the option to rebook, so that'll free up some space. A lot of extra passengers will be catered for. They've also got their Oneworld and other codeshare partners to "help them out".
Or am I talking rubbish?!"
No.
It makes sense to cancel some of the flights on high frequency routes rather than the once/day flights. The former tend to be short haul, the latter long haul.
With high freqency flights, at least pax can reach their destinations sometime the same day, even if it means using large equipment as flights are "combined", using 767s rather than 319s/320s/321s.
It's less disruptive than cancelling lower frequency long haul flights, which could mean capacity/overcrowding problems the next day, and aircraft on the wrong continent, etc..
Obviously load factors, particularly premium business load factors, also play a part in determining which flights are cancelled.
Weather conditions at the destination airports have to be considered, of course, which in the case of short haul flights, are likely to be similar.
Quote: "In terms of Heathrow Airport itself, I'd be using this opportunity to lobby the government that cancellations would be mitigated somewhat if extra airport capacity was available! I heard someone on The One Show this evening saying that Munich had 1m of snow alongside the runway and there were no cancellations - they also have same capacity for half the passengers!"
Exactly.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 21st Jan 2013 at 21:58.
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They could have used 757s to combine flights, if they still had them, so what happens when the 767s go?? Cant imagine BA using 777s on short haul flights to cope with snow cancellations.
Is there any reason why you couldn't operate a spare B744 or two on some routes? The vast majority of routes BA operate on have an available runway which can take the aircraft size.
Obviously you wouldn't see the benefits, such as efficiencies, but its all about getting passengers to their destination, surely?
I understand in extreme circumstances charter airlines rent them out?
Obviously you wouldn't see the benefits, such as efficiencies, but its all about getting passengers to their destination, surely?
I understand in extreme circumstances charter airlines rent them out?
Last edited by Dannyboy39; 22nd Jan 2013 at 17:15.
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Isnt the problem with BA and Heathrow in general the fact they operate too many flights? BA fly to Berlin Tegal 6 times per day, they fly to Milan MXP/LIN 9 times per day. Im sure some of those flights are far from full. Surely to avoid snow cancellations and to free up slots at LHR they can operate less flights but with larger aircraft?? Maybe 321s instead of 319s on some flights?
Is there any reason why you couldn't operate a spare B744 or two on some routes?
Maybe 321s instead of 319s on some flights?
The company will sometimes try the larger aircraft tactic if it can, I've done shorthaul routes on both the 777 and the 744, but most days you simply don't have spare aircraft sitting around.
Last edited by wiggy; 22nd Jan 2013 at 17:35.
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BA fly to Berlin Tegal 6 times per day, they fly to Milan MXP/LIN 9 times per day. Im sure some of those flights are far from full. Surely to avoid snow cancellations and to free up slots at LHR they can operate less flights but with larger aircraft?? Maybe 321s instead of 319s on some flights?
It's just possible that BA's Revenue Management people have been through this exercise and got their sums right!
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Quote: "They could have used 757s to combine flights, if they still had them, so what happens when the 767s go?? Cant imagine BA using 777s on short haul flights to cope with snow cancellations."
Why not, provided the destination airport can handle these, why not use any available large aircraft to clear the backlog. As they say: "any port in a storm".
Quote: "Isnt the problem with BA and Heathrow in general the fact they operate too many flights? BA fly to Berlin Tegal 6 times per day, they fly to Milan MXP/LIN 9 times per day. Im sure some of those flights are far from full. Surely to avoid snow cancellations and to free up slots at LHR they can operate less flights but with larger aircraft?? Maybe 321s instead of 319s on some flights?"
Not neccessarily, business demands high frequencies for the flexibility that they need. Moreover, some frequencies may be timed to allow transfers to longhaul flights, the "hub" function.
No disrespect, but the chances are, as mentioned by Tableview, that BA know what they're doing!
Why not, provided the destination airport can handle these, why not use any available large aircraft to clear the backlog. As they say: "any port in a storm".
Quote: "Isnt the problem with BA and Heathrow in general the fact they operate too many flights? BA fly to Berlin Tegal 6 times per day, they fly to Milan MXP/LIN 9 times per day. Im sure some of those flights are far from full. Surely to avoid snow cancellations and to free up slots at LHR they can operate less flights but with larger aircraft?? Maybe 321s instead of 319s on some flights?"
Not neccessarily, business demands high frequencies for the flexibility that they need. Moreover, some frequencies may be timed to allow transfers to longhaul flights, the "hub" function.
No disrespect, but the chances are, as mentioned by Tableview, that BA know what they're doing!
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I understand your points about frequency, to an extent, but in the case of Linate, there is a BA flight leaving LHR at 07.40 and another at 08.40 both using 319s! And BA moan about delays and limited slots. How about one flight at either time using a 767 or 777? And i know youre going to say they dont have any spare aircraft, so go buy some more Mr Walsh, maybe flog some 319s to help pay for them.
How about one flight at either time using a 767 or 777? And i know youre going to say they dont have any spare aircraft, so go buy some more Mr Walsh, maybe flog some 319s to help pay for them.
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Nice for whom ..the airline? ..the travelling public? or some some retro anorak
How about one flight at either time using a 767 or 777? And i know youre going to say they dont have any spare aircraft, so go buy some more Mr Walsh, maybe flog some 319s to help pay for them.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 22nd Jan 2013 at 20:47.
"Why don't they use larger aircraft, less often?" is engraved on the headstone of many an amateur airline strategist who hasn't a clue about how competition on a route operates.
