Snow cancelations Heathrow
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BA have had 7 diverts so far. ATC will not allow any more BA aircraft into LHR as no available stands to park them on. BA unable to get their act together to depart aircraft. Not an airport operator problem, but an airline problem.
BA flights still on the ground waiting to depart 4 to 5 hours after STD. Other airlines operating out of Heathrow without he same problems BA are suffering with.
When the LHR movement rate is drastically reduced, as it has been over the last few days, it's hardly surprising that BA is far more affected by the knock-on effect than non-based carriers.
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BA flights operating from terminals 1 and 3 seem to be operating similarl to the foreign operators out of the other terminals, slightly disrupted. not 4 or 5 hours delayed.It is primarily terminal 5 where the problem exists.
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Passengers spending 4-5 hours onboard aircraft before departing, not ideal when you've got a 10-11 hour flight ahead of you (which may or may not still go ahead). Is it a lack of de-icing equipment on BA's part?
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Just been on the BA website. tried to copy and paste the departures from 1500-2100 unable to do so. It clearly shows its a T5 problem flights from T1 and T3 are opertaing but disrupted. Also codeshare flight with partner airlines are also shown and the majority are operating. The BA275 Las Vegas is just xxxld unable to be de-iced STD 1540 pax on board. It is a disgrace BA should hang there heads in shame The managers in the airport centre /ops centre are not fit for purpose.
BA 363 from Lyon was on the ground ages at Lyon,departed 19.00 uk time and promptly retd to Lyon after getting half way up France-poss another gate issue at LHR-a friend of ours is meant to be meeting these people when they eventually get to LHR-at the mo pax are still at Lyon(they were put of that flight as GVA to LCY was canx earlier today) Think they will bew glad to get home-hopefully it will take off again soon!
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Amsterdam Schipol now seeing major disruption due to snow with flights being cancelled owing to snow there!
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Twitter has similar stories :
#Heathrow TOTAL meltdown. PATHETIC. Three hours on runway waiting for plane to be de-iced, then flight cancelled. @British_Airways
Now still waiting to get off plane after 3.5 hours, to join long queue in terminal to *perhaps* rebook a flight. Misery. #Heathrow
@British_Airways @BBCBreaking 5 1/2 hrs deicing at #Heathrow Just awful BA.
Well flown #yorkshireairlines tonight flew to heathrow with #ba but #snow prevented landing so now back at #leedsbradford!
#Heathrow TOTAL meltdown. PATHETIC. Three hours on runway waiting for plane to be de-iced, then flight cancelled. @British_Airways
Now still waiting to get off plane after 3.5 hours, to join long queue in terminal to *perhaps* rebook a flight. Misery. #Heathrow
@British_Airways @BBCBreaking 5 1/2 hrs deicing at #Heathrow Just awful BA.
Well flown #yorkshireairlines tonight flew to heathrow with #ba but #snow prevented landing so now back at #leedsbradford!
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The BA ground operation was never a well oiled machine to be fair. Is de-icing in house at T1 and T3? I think it will still be Menzies in T1 but I don't know about T3.
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I appreciate the situation is not Ideal but I do get the impression that certain organisations and individuals relish the idea of being able to attack the performance of BA. (At any time)
Heathrow is a very complex operation working at almost maximum capacity and in poor weather things are bound to be affected. Somehow I don't think airlines or the airport operator want there to be problems.
Airports all over Europe are now being affected by the weather. It happens!
V.
Heathrow is a very complex operation working at almost maximum capacity and in poor weather things are bound to be affected. Somehow I don't think airlines or the airport operator want there to be problems.
Airports all over Europe are now being affected by the weather. It happens!
V.
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Its not the airlines or the airports in my eyes, its the country in general. We have no money, nothing to invest in proper equipment to handle this weather. Other countries manage because they have paid for it. Once the UK sorts themselves out and can invest in the airports it will hopefully be a different ball game in the future
With respect, that is bull!
MAN has invested heavily and the equipment sits idle waiting for the heavy snow. LHR has also spent millions on new gear.
All of Europe is now suffering from weather related cancellations today and tomorrow.
It's not the people, the equipment or the organisation.
It's WEATHER!!!!
MAN has invested heavily and the equipment sits idle waiting for the heavy snow. LHR has also spent millions on new gear.
All of Europe is now suffering from weather related cancellations today and tomorrow.
It's not the people, the equipment or the organisation.
It's WEATHER!!!!
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I appreciate the situation is not Ideal
I, for one, am normally very satisfied with BA's performance, but it has to be said, Skipness One Echo is correct in saying that "The BA ground operation was never a well oiled machine to be fair". I am able to say that objectively after operating to/working at LHR (for quite a bit of time, alongside BA) for quite a few years.
Heathrow is a very complex operation working at almost maximum capacity
in poor weather things are bound to be affected
MAN has invested heavily and the equipment sits idle waiting for the heavy
snow.
snow.
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Quote: "When the LHR movement rate is drastically reduced, as it has been over the last few days, it's hardly surprising that BA is far more affected by the knock-on effect than non-based carriers."
Exactly, pretty obvious really. If dear old BD was still around, expect they would have been similarly affected, as they too, had a large operation in/out of LHR.
Quote: "Amsterdam Schipol now seeing major disruption due to snow with flights being cancelled owing to snow there!"
Quote: "All of Europe is now suffering from weather related cancellations today and tomorrow.
It's not the people, the equipment or the organisation.
It's WEATHER!!!!"
Indeed, even Moscow has been affected, and that is a places used to bad winter weather as an annual event and thus properly geared up for it!
If LHR had the same amount of bad weather equipment as Moscow airports, for example, it would only be used say 3-4 years out of 25. Many would complain that the money should be spent on other infrastructure, possibly with some justification.
Quote: "The issue of capacity is well known and appreciated by most who have any sort of understanding of airline/airport operations. It is understandable/acceptable that it would cause problems and challenges. What is not acceptable is the systematic and long-term FAILURE of the airport authority, ground handling companies and airlines to adapt to these problems and challenges by not investing in infrastructure, equipment and adequate personell establishment. It is simply naive to argue that this hasn't been the case. Had these failures not occured, the situation would not have deteriorated to such an extent. It is simply not acceptable to have a service failure of such magnitude as we have seen over the last few days at the UK's premier airport, an object of such high importance."
Maybe, but when all is said and done, the fault lies fairly and squarely with successive governments who have refused to allow expansion at LHR.
Clearly with 4 rwys the problem would not be so severe: the airport would not be routinely operating at 99% capacity. Four rwys would give the extra resilience required: snow clearance on one rwy, three operating instead of just one.
The need to have more time between each movement than normal would also be less probematic if LHR had the four rwys that it needs and wasn't routinely operating at full capacity.
Even with 10% canx, LHR is still operating at 89% capacity, that is 15% or so more than CDG and FRA under normal circumstances! So in these weather conditions, what do you expect?
Exactly, pretty obvious really. If dear old BD was still around, expect they would have been similarly affected, as they too, had a large operation in/out of LHR.
Quote: "Amsterdam Schipol now seeing major disruption due to snow with flights being cancelled owing to snow there!"
Quote: "All of Europe is now suffering from weather related cancellations today and tomorrow.
It's not the people, the equipment or the organisation.
It's WEATHER!!!!"
Indeed, even Moscow has been affected, and that is a places used to bad winter weather as an annual event and thus properly geared up for it!
If LHR had the same amount of bad weather equipment as Moscow airports, for example, it would only be used say 3-4 years out of 25. Many would complain that the money should be spent on other infrastructure, possibly with some justification.
Quote: "The issue of capacity is well known and appreciated by most who have any sort of understanding of airline/airport operations. It is understandable/acceptable that it would cause problems and challenges. What is not acceptable is the systematic and long-term FAILURE of the airport authority, ground handling companies and airlines to adapt to these problems and challenges by not investing in infrastructure, equipment and adequate personell establishment. It is simply naive to argue that this hasn't been the case. Had these failures not occured, the situation would not have deteriorated to such an extent. It is simply not acceptable to have a service failure of such magnitude as we have seen over the last few days at the UK's premier airport, an object of such high importance."
Maybe, but when all is said and done, the fault lies fairly and squarely with successive governments who have refused to allow expansion at LHR.
Clearly with 4 rwys the problem would not be so severe: the airport would not be routinely operating at 99% capacity. Four rwys would give the extra resilience required: snow clearance on one rwy, three operating instead of just one.
The need to have more time between each movement than normal would also be less probematic if LHR had the four rwys that it needs and wasn't routinely operating at full capacity.
Even with 10% canx, LHR is still operating at 89% capacity, that is 15% or so more than CDG and FRA under normal circumstances! So in these weather conditions, what do you expect?
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I agree that the issue of capacity is a major one, of course; and I agree with the general meaning of your post. Naturally, bad weather will cause disruption. What I am saying, having operated to/worked at LHR and another major European airport, is that this disruption could be lessened (not eradicated, of course) by adequate investment in infrastructure, equipment, procedures and manpower, an investment that we're only seeing emerge in the last few years.
Last edited by Old Grouch; 21st Jan 2013 at 13:48. Reason: Clarification
Don't know much about BA's operation - would I be right in thinking that the disruption has been overhyped slightly? The airline are only cancelling flights which have several rotations a day. For example, the major hubs in Europe and North America.
And where available, merging flights onto larger aircraft? I very much doubt the load factor would be huge, especially on some routes. I noticed a flight to Frankfurt yesterday was being operated by a B767 - I very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft. Obviously BA have flexibility in their aircraft unlike other airlines, some aircraft may be utilised when they were originally planned for down days.
Passengers are also given the option to rebook, so that'll free up some space. A lot of extra passengers will be catered for. They've also got their Oneworld and other codeshare partners to "help them out".
Or am I talking rubbish?!
In terms of Heathrow Airport itself, I'd be using this opportunity to lobby the government that cancellations would be mitigated somewhat if extra airport capacity was available! I heard someone on The One Show this evening saying that Munich had 1m of snow alongside the runway and there were no cancellations - they also have same capacity for half the passengers!
And where available, merging flights onto larger aircraft? I very much doubt the load factor would be huge, especially on some routes. I noticed a flight to Frankfurt yesterday was being operated by a B767 - I very much doubt an aircraft of that size would be operating that route in normal circumstances rather than an A320S aircraft. Obviously BA have flexibility in their aircraft unlike other airlines, some aircraft may be utilised when they were originally planned for down days.
Passengers are also given the option to rebook, so that'll free up some space. A lot of extra passengers will be catered for. They've also got their Oneworld and other codeshare partners to "help them out".
Or am I talking rubbish?!
In terms of Heathrow Airport itself, I'd be using this opportunity to lobby the government that cancellations would be mitigated somewhat if extra airport capacity was available! I heard someone on The One Show this evening saying that Munich had 1m of snow alongside the runway and there were no cancellations - they also have same capacity for half the passengers!
Last edited by Dannyboy39; 21st Jan 2013 at 19:18.