Ryanair - 9
I've just noticed a Transero B737-700 operating for Ryanair tonight into Liverpool. Is this a one off, or a longer lease? Surprised this time of year the need to sub charter aircvraft in. Wet lease or damp lease or just a one off?
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Lets not forget that if you check in as soon as it becomes available (still 15 days before, not 7 as some are saying) you will still get seats together without paying, but obviously only if they're available...
Lets not forget that if you check in as soon as it becomes available (still 15 days before, not 7 as some are saying) you will still get seats together without paying, but obviously only if they're available...
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I've just noticed a Transero B737-700 operating for Ryanair tonight into Liverpool. Is this a one off, or a longer lease? Surprised this time of year the need to sub charter aircvraft in. Wet lease or damp lease or just a one off?
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I do have a question though,
Say a flight is full, and a mother and child are the last to check in. The only seats left are 1a and 33f
What happens in that situation?
With free seating the CC could simply move people around, is is more awkward to do with allocated seating as this would normally be sorted out at the gate, before the CC have a chance to sort it out.
Say a flight is full, and a mother and child are the last to check in. The only seats left are 1a and 33f
What happens in that situation?
With free seating the CC could simply move people around, is is more awkward to do with allocated seating as this would normally be sorted out at the gate, before the CC have a chance to sort it out.
Lots of shoulds.................
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I'm not a fan at all of allocated seating. I think it tries to sort out a problem that doesn't really exist. People are more than capable of working it out for themselves. It doesn't need the work of a computer to tell people where to sit.
The only benefit is that it takes away the scrum at the gate, but even then, passengers may still be rushing to secure their space for luggage in the overhead lockers.
Passengers should definitely be able to pay extra to reserve seats if they want to. The passengers who choose not to in my opinion should not be allocated seats and just simply have the free seating policy.
Passengers who reserve seats or just pay priority boarding (or have special assistance) should of course be boarded first. Then, all they should do is organise the remaining people who haven't paid anything extra into 2 or 3 groups based on their check-in position, or "sequence number".
For example, all passengers with seq. numbers 1 - 59 come forward first, then 60 - 119 etc. but allowing exceptions for a small overlap for passengers in the same party, or at least certainly with children.
They have two queues at the boarding gates anyway, the "priority" and the "other" queues. Whilst say the reserved seating and priority boarding passengers are boarding, they could gather passengers in the other queue for seq. numbers 1 - 59 and so on, to avoid delay switching between the different groups.
Also with free seating, the cabin crew can urge people to move down towards the centre of the cabin (if boarding from front and rear doors) to stop people blocking the aisle near the doors, which is a common problem I find with allocated seating.
That way we wouldn't have these problems of people being separated from their family and it would be in my mind a much fairer way to do it. Plus it might also give some people the incentive to pull their finger out and check-in earlier so they can board earlier.
The only benefit is that it takes away the scrum at the gate, but even then, passengers may still be rushing to secure their space for luggage in the overhead lockers.
Passengers should definitely be able to pay extra to reserve seats if they want to. The passengers who choose not to in my opinion should not be allocated seats and just simply have the free seating policy.
Passengers who reserve seats or just pay priority boarding (or have special assistance) should of course be boarded first. Then, all they should do is organise the remaining people who haven't paid anything extra into 2 or 3 groups based on their check-in position, or "sequence number".
For example, all passengers with seq. numbers 1 - 59 come forward first, then 60 - 119 etc. but allowing exceptions for a small overlap for passengers in the same party, or at least certainly with children.
They have two queues at the boarding gates anyway, the "priority" and the "other" queues. Whilst say the reserved seating and priority boarding passengers are boarding, they could gather passengers in the other queue for seq. numbers 1 - 59 and so on, to avoid delay switching between the different groups.
Also with free seating, the cabin crew can urge people to move down towards the centre of the cabin (if boarding from front and rear doors) to stop people blocking the aisle near the doors, which is a common problem I find with allocated seating.
That way we wouldn't have these problems of people being separated from their family and it would be in my mind a much fairer way to do it. Plus it might also give some people the incentive to pull their finger out and check-in earlier so they can board earlier.
For example, all passengers with seq. numbers 1 - 59 come forward first, then 60 - 119 etc. but allowing exceptions for a small overlap for passengers in the same party, or at least certainly with children.
Sadly no matter what you do you will still have the feckless turning up at last minute or checking in last minute. Then demanding that everything else is rearranged to suit them because they wish to save a few quid, course that is not a worry when they hit the airport shops.
When travelling as a family we pretty much always paid for priority boarding because it then left you in control of what happens in getting a seat rather than relying on the goodwill of others.
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In the case that the pax are split up the crew would simply move those who have not paid for their specific seat once onboard the aircraft. I would imagine the crew have a way of telling who has paid and who has not.
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In the case that the pax are split up the crew would simply move those who have not paid for their specific seat once onboard the aircraft. I would imagine the crew have a way of telling who has paid and who has not.
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Well at my airline it says on he manifest and there's also a discreet way of telling by looking at the boarding card.
The point of allocated seating is it makes money and a good proportion of people prefer it. If people haven't paid they obviously aren't that bothered where they sit. So you ask them to move, if they don't want to you ask someone else.
The point of allocated seating is it makes money and a good proportion of people prefer it. If people haven't paid they obviously aren't that bothered where they sit. So you ask them to move, if they don't want to you ask someone else.
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In the airlines I use most often they allocate seating in advance. 24hrs before the flight you check in and print the boarding card. You also have the chance to change the allocated seating if you so wish. It is most common that all the pax on a common booking have been seated together. It's called common sense. However, those who wish to be in the smoking section can relocate their seats before printing. What's so difficult. Have RYR not yet entered the pax controlling era?
RAT - which airlines that you use still have smoking sections ?
FRatSTN - consider the passenger who pays online for a specific seat but because of a train delay is the last person at the gate to board the aircraft. The flight is full, so someone who was following a free seating policy is now sitting in the late passenger's seat. The airport is slot controlled and push back time is approaching fast. Do you
a - tell the passenger with the allocated seat that they have forfeited their chosen seat and musit sit at the back of the plane ?
b - enforce that people move seats, even if it's a single parent and child who would be separated thus requiring further seat changes ?
My point is that you can set aside a few seats in the aircraft as allocated with the remainder free seating... but you cannot operationally make the whole cabin both allocated and free seating at the same time on an LCC
A mix of free seating and allocated works on trains only because there is a much less stringent time constraint around turnaround times (so staff can distribute all the 'reserved seat' paper slips) and that train passengers are not required to be seated at any point (eg just after train departs station).
FRatSTN - consider the passenger who pays online for a specific seat but because of a train delay is the last person at the gate to board the aircraft. The flight is full, so someone who was following a free seating policy is now sitting in the late passenger's seat. The airport is slot controlled and push back time is approaching fast. Do you
a - tell the passenger with the allocated seat that they have forfeited their chosen seat and musit sit at the back of the plane ?
b - enforce that people move seats, even if it's a single parent and child who would be separated thus requiring further seat changes ?
My point is that you can set aside a few seats in the aircraft as allocated with the remainder free seating... but you cannot operationally make the whole cabin both allocated and free seating at the same time on an LCC
A mix of free seating and allocated works on trains only because there is a much less stringent time constraint around turnaround times (so staff can distribute all the 'reserved seat' paper slips) and that train passengers are not required to be seated at any point (eg just after train departs station).
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 15th Feb 2014 at 20:20.
If people haven't paid they obviously aren't that bothered where they sit. So you ask them to move, if they don't want to you ask someone else.
fa2fi,
Your conclusion is incorrect.
Because there is no correspondence between seats and windows it is difficult to determine which seats have comfortable windows before boarding, so if you think a good window is important you deliberately do not reserve a seat.
fa2fi,
Your conclusion is incorrect.
Because there is no correspondence between seats and windows it is difficult to determine which seats have comfortable windows before boarding, so if you think a good window is important you deliberately do not reserve a seat.
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Yeah in which case you could get an aisle seat or a middle seat?
Anyway point is relating to the case of the 'but I have a child' brigade. If the cabin needs to be rearranged then it can be by the crew in order to get kids sat by parents. A lot of parents know this and therefore will not pay as they know the crew will move the cabin for them.
If someone has not paid for a seat then technically they are not entitled to it and therefore can be asked to move regardless of whether they have a boarding card for it.
When I was crew it happened bothed on a free seating airline and assigned seating airline. Bottom line is you don't move those who have paid and you don't move your regular flyers. Simples.
Anyway point is relating to the case of the 'but I have a child' brigade. If the cabin needs to be rearranged then it can be by the crew in order to get kids sat by parents. A lot of parents know this and therefore will not pay as they know the crew will move the cabin for them.
If someone has not paid for a seat then technically they are not entitled to it and therefore can be asked to move regardless of whether they have a boarding card for it.
When I was crew it happened bothed on a free seating airline and assigned seating airline. Bottom line is you don't move those who have paid and you don't move your regular flyers. Simples.
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RAT - which airlines that you use still have smoking sections ?
That was a joke: my point being that my airlines allocate seats at online checkin, but offer you the chance to change it when checking-in finally and printing the boarding card. It's very easy.
That was a joke: my point being that my airlines allocate seats at online checkin, but offer you the chance to change it when checking-in finally and printing the boarding card. It's very easy.
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My point is that you can set aside a few seats in the aircraft as allocated with the remainder free seating... but you cannot operationally make the whole cabin both allocated and free seating at the same time on an LCC
A mix of free seating and allocated works on trains only because there is a much less stringent time constraint around turnaround times (so staff can distribute all the 'reserved seat' paper slips) and that train passengers are not required to be seated at any point (eg just after train departs station).
A mix of free seating and allocated works on trains only because there is a much less stringent time constraint around turnaround times (so staff can distribute all the 'reserved seat' paper slips) and that train passengers are not required to be seated at any point (eg just after train departs station).
Paper slips don't exist in Europe, UK behind with the times. Train turnaround times are usually no more than 30-45 minutes while Ryanair are 25-35 minutes so no difference and trains carrying way more than a jet. All it takes is a code to show up hundreds of names on electronic displays.
I think a few IT changes by FR would sort out the problem however in this case the passenger booked before Ryanair announced allocated seating and responsibility should fall with the airline. Families won't mind if there is a row or two between them but this time the gap was massive and unless the flight was very full and heavily reserved an IT glitch could be to blame.
j636 - I agree that paper slips on most trains are no longer neessary. However, the average B737 doesn't have an electronic display above the seat, so to mark a seat as allocated, cabin crew would have to lay out pieces of paper on each seat indicating if it's reserved or not.
Of course, in a mixed allocated/free-seating set up, not every seat will be reserved, so cabin crew would have to lay out those "Reserved" pieces of paper more carefully for specific seats every turnaround which all takes time...
Yes, trains do carry more people, but a train usually has far fewer seats per non-emergency available door, so a given number of people can enter/exit the train much faster. As with LCC cabin crew, a team of cleaners can start work on a train approx 30 mins before arrival at a terminus, so minimising turnaround time. Train crew can check tickets after the train starts moving, making boarding faster. No need for a passenger count, get all passengers seated, safety demo or to check everyone is wearing a seatbelt and seats upright on a train before departure. This means that the number of minutes when a long distance train is (almost) empty of passengers at a terminus is rather longer than a 25-min turnaround plane.
My point overall, is that a mixed allocated/free-seating set up on a train is much easier to execute, than it is on a Ryanair B737 based on current turnaround times and aircraft. I agree that Ryanair is on a drive to improve customer service, but the aim to be to not annoy people, rather than reach the standards of a traditional network carrier - if they can meet Easyjet current levels of service, then consumers will likely be happy.
Yes, Ryanair could implement a combination of allocated and free seating, but would the increased consumer satisfaction outweigh the loss of ancillary revenue and the operational time cost, and would passengers pay higher fares for that extra satisfaction ?
Of course, in a mixed allocated/free-seating set up, not every seat will be reserved, so cabin crew would have to lay out those "Reserved" pieces of paper more carefully for specific seats every turnaround which all takes time...
Yes, trains do carry more people, but a train usually has far fewer seats per non-emergency available door, so a given number of people can enter/exit the train much faster. As with LCC cabin crew, a team of cleaners can start work on a train approx 30 mins before arrival at a terminus, so minimising turnaround time. Train crew can check tickets after the train starts moving, making boarding faster. No need for a passenger count, get all passengers seated, safety demo or to check everyone is wearing a seatbelt and seats upright on a train before departure. This means that the number of minutes when a long distance train is (almost) empty of passengers at a terminus is rather longer than a 25-min turnaround plane.
My point overall, is that a mixed allocated/free-seating set up on a train is much easier to execute, than it is on a Ryanair B737 based on current turnaround times and aircraft. I agree that Ryanair is on a drive to improve customer service, but the aim to be to not annoy people, rather than reach the standards of a traditional network carrier - if they can meet Easyjet current levels of service, then consumers will likely be happy.
Yes, Ryanair could implement a combination of allocated and free seating, but would the increased consumer satisfaction outweigh the loss of ancillary revenue and the operational time cost, and would passengers pay higher fares for that extra satisfaction ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 17th Feb 2014 at 02:29.