Ryanair - 9
Join Date: Jun 2010
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So -if Ryanair do set up shop in Copenhagen it might be a fair task to overcome some negative thinking about them. Maybe not- I expect Ryanair will have done their homework.
CPH are unlikely to offer FR what they would like and it will be a case of pay what others pay or don't come to town.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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FR to pay 8.3Mn euro in damages and fines
A French court has ruled that Irish low cost airline Ryanair must pay 8.1m euros (£6.4m) in damages and 200,000 euros in fines for breaches of French labour laws.
BBC News - Ryanair ordered to pay ?8.3m by French court
BBC News - Ryanair ordered to pay ?8.3m by French court
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cork....like.
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Expect this one to be appealed by OLeary all the way to the European Courts of Justice in Strasbourg.
Or, if it isn't appealed in such a manner, does OLeary consider that his financial model of disregarding local labour and social insurance norms, is unsustainable, and that further legal action in Strasbourg may only serve to highlight such abuses of norms?
FR's response will be interesting.
Or, if it isn't appealed in such a manner, does OLeary consider that his financial model of disregarding local labour and social insurance norms, is unsustainable, and that further legal action in Strasbourg may only serve to highlight such abuses of norms?
FR's response will be interesting.
I suspect that the mouth regards local laws as tiresome.
He can appeal all he wants - and he will appeal, but his legal/employment set up was wrong in the beginning.
I would eat my hat if he wins in the long run. Fortunately, I do not wear a hat.
He can appeal all he wants - and he will appeal, but his legal/employment set up was wrong in the beginning.
I would eat my hat if he wins in the long run. Fortunately, I do not wear a hat.
from another thread
now the French...
brilliant, they've buggered up their own national airline and therefore it's logical to ensure that the Irish can't step in to show them how to operate
I was working on a project for KLM at the time of the merger and most of the things they had to say about AF and the French would earn me an instant ban here if repeated.
What a difference in attitude between the French, inefficient, bureaucratic, hidebound (on l'a toujours fait comme ca.....) lazy, devious, arrogant, a massive sense of entitlement, monoglot, and confrontational, and the Dutch, professional, positive, straightforward, multilingual, and always looking for solutions rather than obstacles.
What a difference in attitude between the French, inefficient, bureaucratic, hidebound (on l'a toujours fait comme ca.....) lazy, devious, arrogant, a massive sense of entitlement, monoglot, and confrontational, and the Dutch, professional, positive, straightforward, multilingual, and always looking for solutions rather than obstacles.
A French court has ruled that Irish low cost airline Ryanair must pay 8.1m euros (£6.4m) in damages and 200,000 euros in fines for breaches of French labour laws.
He can appeal all he wants - and he will appeal, but his legal/employment set up was wrong in the beginning.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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New Base in CPH
Unfortunately the unions are very very strong at CPH and they have previously announced that they will do everything to keep ryanair out of CPH including physical blockades.
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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They might be strong bullying local management and bureaucratic legacy carriers but O`Leary is a whole different ball game. They might have just woken up and smelled the coffee..On the other hand, get the popcorn in, it could be fun 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I don't have a lot of time for MO'L's style of management and his mouth, but, on the French one, he has an interesting line of argument - the EU has arrangements for the residence and tax treatment of ships crews, why nothing similar for air crews?? OK, I know it is a trick question, but if the EU means anything then they need to be consistent.
He will certainly push this one, it is only in the French courts so far. If he gets a reference to the EC court, which is presumably what he is playing for, then the sh1t will hit the fan, every citizen has the right to work where they want, MO'L will argue that means they can be rostered.... or the like.
There are unwritten agreements between the EU Member States not to allow questions of this kind to get to the EC Court, the countries know that the principle of free movement of labour, enshrined in the Treaties, will be the guideline for the Court, has to be.
As person I have sympathy for the French protection of workers, I certainly don't want the zero hours stuff as practised in the UK, for example. If the EU has rules and MO'L's company operates there then he has rights also.
He will certainly push this one, it is only in the French courts so far. If he gets a reference to the EC court, which is presumably what he is playing for, then the sh1t will hit the fan, every citizen has the right to work where they want, MO'L will argue that means they can be rostered.... or the like.
There are unwritten agreements between the EU Member States not to allow questions of this kind to get to the EC Court, the countries know that the principle of free movement of labour, enshrined in the Treaties, will be the guideline for the Court, has to be.
As person I have sympathy for the French protection of workers, I certainly don't want the zero hours stuff as practised in the UK, for example. If the EU has rules and MO'L's company operates there then he has rights also.
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Well with Norwegian running 5 flights a day between CPH-LGW there is clearly a market there.
Ryanair have had mixed results in Scandinavia, but with changes to their business practices i suspect they'll enjoy success at CPH and Norwegian will bear the brunt of competition due to their higher cost base.
Ryanair have had mixed results in Scandinavia, but with changes to their business practices i suspect they'll enjoy success at CPH and Norwegian will bear the brunt of competition due to their higher cost base.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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LNIDA, I think you are forgetting that CPH is the SAS main hub and this same airline is flying to all three destinations Ryanair want to start with (London, Milan and Warsaw). SAS's operating costs per ASK is over 200% higher than Ryanair's, I will say SAS will take main brunt from MOL's move. If you are flying in Go, the difference to the upgraded FR service will be minimal - and with 80% of the passengers in Go, there you have the ones MOL is wanting.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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LNIDA,
Please explain your reasoning for the assertion that 'Ryanair have had mixed results in Scandinavia'?
One of Ryanair's earliest non Ireland- UK routes was Stansted to Oslo Torp, circa 1998. Within a short time FR were boasting being #1 airline between London and Scandinavia. Their prices sent shock waves through the competitors and SAS suffered greatly. DY has been able to flourish in this market on the back of FR's lack of presence at primary airports.
Over the time since FR's entry to the Scandinavian market, the only indicators that I can see for FR ex Scandinavia are expansion, more bases new routes and now a new primary airport.
EZY on the other hand it could be very true to say that they have had mixed results in Scandinavia, few routes, many opened, many dropped. No presence in Norway, only after a short time in the Bergen market they withdrew. With only CPH routes left plus a few others, nothing significant.
It is on this basis that I would disagree.
Please explain your reasoning for the assertion that 'Ryanair have had mixed results in Scandinavia'?
One of Ryanair's earliest non Ireland- UK routes was Stansted to Oslo Torp, circa 1998. Within a short time FR were boasting being #1 airline between London and Scandinavia. Their prices sent shock waves through the competitors and SAS suffered greatly. DY has been able to flourish in this market on the back of FR's lack of presence at primary airports.
Over the time since FR's entry to the Scandinavian market, the only indicators that I can see for FR ex Scandinavia are expansion, more bases new routes and now a new primary airport.
EZY on the other hand it could be very true to say that they have had mixed results in Scandinavia, few routes, many opened, many dropped. No presence in Norway, only after a short time in the Bergen market they withdrew. With only CPH routes left plus a few others, nothing significant.
It is on this basis that I would disagree.
Join Date: May 2005
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Mixed results in Scandinavia?
Hello,
It's certainly true that not everything Ryanair have tried has worked in Scandinavia, but then route closures and base closures have also happened elsewhere in Europe. Overall, the growth still continues.
In 2012, Ryanair were forecasting 2.2 million passengers for Rygge for that year. The 2015 forecast is down to 1.35 million. Similarly Skavsta has a forecast of 1.1 million for next year, compared to over 2 million a few years ago, so those are pretty big cuts.
Services to the Swedish airports of Karlstad, Kalmar, Angelholm and Jonkoping have all been dropped.
Nevertheless, as EI-BUD points out, Ryanair's fortunes in Scandinavia are quite a contrast to those of Easyjet.
It's certainly true that not everything Ryanair have tried has worked in Scandinavia, but then route closures and base closures have also happened elsewhere in Europe. Overall, the growth still continues.
In 2012, Ryanair were forecasting 2.2 million passengers for Rygge for that year. The 2015 forecast is down to 1.35 million. Similarly Skavsta has a forecast of 1.1 million for next year, compared to over 2 million a few years ago, so those are pretty big cuts.
Services to the Swedish airports of Karlstad, Kalmar, Angelholm and Jonkoping have all been dropped.
Nevertheless, as EI-BUD points out, Ryanair's fortunes in Scandinavia are quite a contrast to those of Easyjet.
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EI-BUD
Mixed results? i mean some good some bad, some of the flights to/from LPA/TFS had very poor loads and were quickly dropped, i think the view in Scandinavia was that a hours of endless announcements, scratch cards and so on was tolerable for a couple of hour but not 5+
I also find it strange that easyJet have not done better in this market place, their product and pricing is competitive.
LN-KGL
My reason for suspecting that DY will have more to loose from an FR presence at CPH is that pax seeking budget fares have already migrated from SAS to DY and others.
DY state that 2015 will be consolidation year and certainly need to rebuild their profitability after suffering the costly ramp up of long haul which without the support of the short haul business would probably have seen them go under. To do this becomes just a little bit harder with FR in CPH
One question though, does anyone seriously expect that the ground handling dews at CPH will try to scupper FR plans, could FR self handle at CPH
I also find it strange that easyJet have not done better in this market place, their product and pricing is competitive.
LN-KGL
My reason for suspecting that DY will have more to loose from an FR presence at CPH is that pax seeking budget fares have already migrated from SAS to DY and others.
DY state that 2015 will be consolidation year and certainly need to rebuild their profitability after suffering the costly ramp up of long haul which without the support of the short haul business would probably have seen them go under. To do this becomes just a little bit harder with FR in CPH
One question though, does anyone seriously expect that the ground handling dews at CPH will try to scupper FR plans, could FR self handle at CPH