MANCHESTER - 9

[rutankrd]

No, that's marketing codswallop. It's Delta's most popular international flight to MAN among it's current portfolio of one daily flight...
It's really six of one and half a dozen of another. There is an element of truth to the original line. What in fact is the truth is that ATL-MAN is in the top handful of DL routes to Europe which show complete consistency throughout the year with regard to both loads and yield.

Just a general question re the DL/VS exchange of Atlanta-UK services, and with reference to others saying that Manchester is to get a resident VS 333 is this actually accurate or is it actually simply a daily remote frame swap over Atlanta of a LHR based frame and crews ?

Such as LHR-ATL-MAN-ATL-LHR patterns ?

That would make sense since the rotations are tight for single frame operations right now - For security of service 2 frames (of either airline) may be required.

[Skipness One Echo]

The outcome is the same, the B744s are LGW based but MAN sees two most days.

[jackieofalltrades]

Out of curiosity, if the ATL-MAN is "one of the most popular trans-Atlantic routes for Delta, why do they only use a B763 on the route? Why not go with a bigger capacity aeroplane such as the A330 or B777?

[Una Due Tfc]

Or a 744.....


Most DL 330s and Triplers are on the Pacific now. The only Tripler I see of theirs is ATL-DXB. The only 744 does JFK-TLV.

Best any European airport can hope for from DL would be a B764

[rutankrd]

Delta in the current season are using 2 no 77Ls daily into the UK rotating

Atlanta- LHR-DTW - Tokyo
Tokyo - DTW-LHR - Atlanta

These are simply positioning operations as under normal circumstances a 764 would be deployed.

Capacity wise there isn't a right lot of difference between a 764 and 77L in Delta configurations.

[jackieofalltrades]

There's a significant number of A330s and B777 into Schiphol. Understandable being such a massive SkyTeam hub, but I'm still curious as to why Delta doesn't up capacity on the ATL-MAN route if it is as good as reported. I will be the first to admit I don't know all the ins and outs of scheduling, but thought an airline the size of Delta should be able to move larger capacity aircraft onto one of their supposedly more higher yielding routes.

[rutankrd]

Out of curiosity, if the ATL-MAN is "one of the most popular trans-Atlantic routes for Delta, why do they only use a B763 on the route? Why not go with a bigger capacity aeroplane such as the A330 or B777?

The ex NW 332 was used last summer and were schedule for this summer as well however a change of plan and with renewed desire to fortify the North West seaboard these were move up the Seattle .
The 764s are mainly used on LHR services where lie flat Biz class is promoted particularly to/fromNew York

The 333 routes in to alliance partner hubs at Amsterdam and Paris

That pretty much leaves the 763 as the only available frame for Manchester- Atlanta at the moment , however with JV using a VS 333 on both a daily LHR and MAN operation effectively increases that capacity.

I understand its going to be LHR-ATL-MAN-ATL-LHR operation anyway.

[LAX_LHR]

MAN will have a based A333, rotating once to twice weekly in ATL. Also to note we have had several Delta B767-400's pass through this summer.

[jackieofalltrades]

Thanks for the info Rutankrd. That explains a lot. Cheers.

[Armodeen]

Is there anything more substantive in the Times article after the pay wall? Seems to be rumour and speculation.

[adfly]

Not really, just says that Little Red is subject to the same performance standards as the rest of the routes and also that it is 'still in its growth phase'. Nothing that significantly supports the rather Daily Fail-esque headline.

[MANFOD]

Egyptair.

I thought a few weeks ago flights were still showing for MAN this winter but were not bookable, allegedly due to the temporary licence issue.

If you now try to book November, it routes you via CPH on SAS.
Does this imply the route is definitely being pulled?

[BasilBush]

Adfly, if VS had really wanted to deny the story they would have done so, rather than risk the inevitable adverse impact on future bookings. Instead they simply came up with:

"Asked about the regional airline’s future, Virgin Atlantic told the newspaper: “We look at Little Red through the same lens as the rest of the business - it must deliver on performance, potential or strategic contribution. Little Red is still in its growth phase, so it is too early to comment on these criteria.”"

This has all the hallmarks of a holding response while they sort out the details with EI, the slot trustee, and other interested parties.

[Fairdealfrank]

Scotland

Well what do you know, much to the chagrin of our political masters in Westminster (née Whitehall), who I'm sure were rather hoping those North of the Border would vote NO and retreat back to highland dancing and listening to The Proclaimers, it appears those pesky Scots "might just vote for independence"
"Damned inconvenient if you ask me Smithers

So what of aviation policy and it's impact re Manchester !

Any thoughts ?

A couple come to mind.

The Andrew Neil programme two weeks back raised many interesting points, a few of our previous incompetent PMs have managed to lose things, usually Money, Goodwill, Political Support, but no PM has ever managed lose a whole nation before so the prospects for DC will according to most commentators be by all accounts somewhat bleak, it raises the spectre for the Conservatives of going into a UK general election with a lame duck Prime Minister, so would they plough on regardless or change course beforehand and if that happens will airport policy change ?

Surely in the event of a “yes” vote Cameron would have to go, and Clegg and the entire government. How could they continue after presiding over the break up of the country?

The Queen would then ask Miliband if he could form a government that can command a majority in the Commons, which he can’t, so it would be a dissolution and an immediate general election, and an early result from the Airports Commission, which “reports after the general election”, soon after.

That’s what should happen, but of course we all know that it wouldn’t as they’d cling on like grim death.

The nailed on expansion of LHR will presumably be in some doubt, although i'm not sure personally which front runners would be in the YES / NO camp !


Would Boris charge thru ?

No, it's by no means a given. In the above-mentioned scenario of what should happen, Boris would be the newly elected MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, a constituency with a large contingent iof airport workers and more aircraft noise from NHT than LHR.

One would see Osborne and May “on manoeuvres” , and depending (1) on the composition of the Conservative party after the election, and (2) how much of an impact UKIP actually have, it could possibly be these two whose names go forward to the national Conservative party membership.

It will also provide food for thought for Davies and the Airport Commission, one of the main planks of their argument for expansion was UK connectivity, given LHR serves GLA EDI and ABZ , now parachuted into a new nation, would the perception change, doubters might start suggesting that we would be spending an awful lot of money investing in a runway for a country who must surely (although perhaps misguidedly), have aspirations to have more direct links of their own ?

The lack of domestic connectivity at LHR is more than just ABZ, EDI, GLA, who are actually well connected to LHR. It’s about destinations such as EXT, GCI, HUY, INV, IOM, JER, LDY, LPL, MME, NQY, and many many others. It’s also about the longhaul destinations that the domestic links would feed.

I'm not suggesting that economically the picture changes but it most certainly does from a political point of view !

"Sorry good folk of Sipson we are going to level your village, a real time benefit will be the ability to provide the good people of this new nation, Scotland, better access",
.......er really ?

So more importantly no runway, new policy, and no doubt a new White Paper, would Manchester actually get any airtime, I doubt it ?

Scotland staying or going has no impact on the case for LHR expansion.

APD - If its scrapped as seems likely would that sway passenger traffic flows North in terms of long haul ? Assuming of course a family of four on its way to Dubai are able to get past the Ed Miliband Light Infantry border guards who according to today's papers will be stationed at Gretna.

Is a 3 hour journey up the M6 worth a £400+ saving....to most quite probably !

It’s never been discussed, but the chances are that a separated Scotland would be in the common travel area.

Bilaterals - As I understand air agreement are between countries so flights to Scotland would presumably need unpicking and a new raft of air agreements drawn up, again would there be any implications for Manchester in terms of quota etc ?

Any other implications?

The chances are that a separated Scotland would have an open skies arrangement with the UK and with Ireland, and with most European countries until or unless it joined the EU.

Whichever way the vote goes interesting times.....

I'm off to Listen to The Proclaimers...


ho Hum.......Bathgate no more, Linwood no more, Methil no more, Irvine no more.

The Proclaimers, a band 20 years ahead of its time?

[Fairdealfrank]

Adfly, if VS had really wanted to deny the story they would have done so, rather than risk the inevitable adverse impact on future bookings. Instead they simply came up with:

"Asked about the regional airline’s future, Virgin Atlantic told the newspaper: “We look at Little Red through the same lens as the rest of the business - it must deliver on performance, potential or strategic contribution. Little Red is still in its growth phase, so it is too early to comment on these criteria.”"

This has all the hallmarks of a holding response while they sort out the details with EI, the slot trustee, and other interested parties.

What on earth were they thinking with "Little Red"? Marketing the new services as "Virgin Atlantic", a well-known brand in the UK, would have made more sense.

Think it's commonly known as shooting ones self in the foot.

[Manchester Kurt]

Under the new fixed term parliament you need a two thirds majority to dissolve parliament (to stop a PM going early to an election), as such very unlikely parliament will be dissolved before May 2015, both major parties would have to agree to it and whichever was likely to lose an early election would not vote to dissolve parliament.

[Bagso]

Little Red

Adfly, if VS had really wanted to deny the story they would have done so,

I agree with Lord Basil 100%, this smacks of a "manufactured" leak with lots of spin !

Quick email to a Journo contact , they splash a scoop, company do bugger all to defend the accusation !

Softens up the work force/Unions for the bad incoming bad news, gives the market a heads up.

Job well and truly done !

Egyptair

...not so much pulled as left to float slowly away !

[kieb92]

Mahan Air apparently applied to serve the UK market again. Any chance we may see them again at MAN as have served MAN in the past?

[All names taken]

Couple of questions for those of you in the know:

1. How many long haul destinations does Manchester now have, either flying now or confirmed to start?

2. How many aircraft (as in airliners) are based at MAN?

Just interested

[Bagso]

FairDealFrank

An eloquent reply (..as ever)

Just one point, if the regions need all this connectivity and higher frequency why has Little Red not been a runaway success?

By all acounts every flight should be full ...but arn't