Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

DONCASTER SHEFFIELD

Old 8th Jul 2017, 15:17
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 54
Posts: 69
So, we have a marketing headline which highlights DSA is close to the ECML, and from which people can conclude if you really want to use a train to get to DSA you already can. In 12 months time the marketing guys can try get people excited about cutting 2 minutes off road journey time with the FARRS extension. Doesn't change the fact that in 12 months there are no new airlines or brand new routes and is that really going to change despite improved access while DSA management to try to keep the incumbent airlines happy enough to stay.
G-FORZ is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2017, 15:45
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,378
Actually there's a flyover S of Doncaster so that a train starting from the West side towards Lincoln doesn't have to cross the ECML.
inOban is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2017, 23:27
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Darkest Lincs
Posts: 467
Call me simple, but how many extra pax are likely to be attracted to DNS by a rail station, when the airport has so few operators ? As someone who lives only 30 miles away, I'd dearly love to use DNS to fly to the Med, but apart from a few Flybe flights, there is no choice. Sure, Tui fly from there, but they are only interested in package holiday flights.
wowzz is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 06:14
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Siargao Island
Posts: 1,036
Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Call me simple, but how many extra pax are likely to be attracted to DNS by a rail station, when the airport has so few operators ? As someone who lives only 30 miles away, I'd dearly love to use DNS to fly to the Med, but apart from a few Flybe flights, there is no choice. Sure, Tui fly from there, but they are only interested in package holiday flights.
Just as one example CWL has a railway station, that isn't at the airport or within walking distance, and on a rural branch line and it makes diddly squat different when there are express buses operating from Cardiff's central rail/bus station delivering pax PDQ to the airport doorstep.
Harry Wayfarers is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 07:56
  #1145 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Doncaster
Age: 37
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
So, we have a marketing headline which highlights DSA is close to the ECML, and from which people can conclude if you really want to use a train to get to DSA you already can. In 12 months time the marketing guys can try get people excited about cutting 2 minutes off road journey time with the FARRS extension. Doesn't change the fact that in 12 months there are no new airlines or brand new routes and is that really going to change despite improved access while DSA management to try to keep the incumbent airlines happy enough to stay.
No one predicted FlyBe starting ops at DSA, so who knows.

Although, in 12 months, my belief is the airport management will be scratching around trying to find an excuse as to why FlyBe are no longer operating from DSA.
TimmyW is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 08:36
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Galway ROI
Posts: 2
Firstly Timmy W I will not 'feed the troll your on another good forum where you were exposed directly by a totally false statement.

You also stated ' I predict the airport will be a supermarket'.

Secondly you ignore the unexpected growth in cargo traffic, with one of the longer runways in the north and 'quieter' airspace ( Please refrain from telling us that's because the airlines will quit soon).

That growth could be supported separately by a spur from one of the new lines at the Euro Ralfreight terminal. (Freight only e.g. a door to door service so to speak)

Also with 'High speed New Bi Mode trains it's not impossible to improve the Finningley line and even provide (not familiar with the area) but perhaps an additional track via the Lincoln line aimed at the airport.

Finally no-one knows what the future holds but I'm happy to scan for you you a copy of a booklet showing traffic figures of LBA in it's equivalent growth years from the 'new terminal' to the late 70's .

They had less traffic ! But ten years hence it trippled .

DSA is a 12 year old airport one which more than half of its life was during a massive economic downturn one which we are still not truly out of.

I am no DSA lover nor a fan of the operator, however don't knock the 4 to 5% per month pax growth this year including passing the Million mark not seen since 2007.

Also Timmy it's FACT the current cargo tally has blown apart ANY previous cargo figures ever seen.
I would say you check your facts , turn down the hate and look at the bigger picture.
And finally the new station if you bothered to read the press release is also to serve the wider area , the Yorkshire wildlife park and the new housing which is set to be around the 5000 mark over 5 years.

Are you seriously going to tell Taylor Wimpey and a government minister that a plan which will also benefit the airport And wider community including one project that PREDATES DSA.
The rail project that may be built for the wider area and airport can but only result in a pax growth.

How do you arrive at the conclusion. An airline will be leaving ?.
Timmy . 5000 more households are being built on the doorstep that is what 20.000 people ?

Last word on your troll posts the whole project is a small link in a larger economic plan to improve the fortunes of the 'region.
You may be unaware that a project is due on the Highways England next economic cycle.

This will see the A1 (M) widened along the full length of the 60's Doncaster bypass and to the North the missing link will be converted to motorway 'creating an alternative to strategic long distance traffic being able to by-pass Leeds and the M1'.

Also it states a redesigned M18/A1(M) junction and additional full third lanes in both directions will improve access to the new economic site at Rossington.

The Airport cannot help but benefit from that!. But this is a long term game Timmy not your FSX AI traffic.

Last edited by EGPO; 10th Jul 2017 at 09:08. Reason: mis spelling due to auto correct on mobile device
EGPO is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:18
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 64
Posts: 0
I can imagine the future now. An excited family from Retford booking their annual holiday to the sun. "Oh Daddy! How exciting! Can we really go to the airport by train? Can I sit by the window on the way to the airport?" Little Timmy just can't wait. He and his sister are looking forward to their adventure. Their father, being a realist, looks at the train timetable and starts to think: "So we have to be at the airport at 4:39am for the flight leaving at 6:39. The shuttle bus from the station will cost 3.00 each and will take seven minutes but but runs every 20 minutes. So we will have to be there by 4:12am to make sure we are not late. Oh dear, the first train arrives at the airport at 6:32 so we will have to travel the night before and stay at the hotel nearest the airport. In Doncaster town. So we will have to..." John reconsiders his choice of airport and announces they will drive to Manchester. He was also not looking forward to the five minutes drive in a taxi to the station. He also knew his family would have to wipe their feet on the way out of the cab.

With some exceptions, travelling to and from airports by train is a non-starter. Only pathetic individuals drunk on progressive, fully-inclusive, green and eco-friendly crap come up with crackpot ideas such as putting in a rail spurs to an under-utilised airport. Trains need high demand to make planning viable as they cost millions per mile to build. So because someone took the cheap option and redeveloped an ex-airforce aerodrome (brilliant bit of tarmac) they are now paying for having it in the wrong place. When seven, eight, nine million passengers use the airport every year a rail link will also arrive. Not before. Assuming you can obtain enough slots on a fast main line to ensure a frequent, viable airport connection service. The ECML is approaching capacity now.

Lastly, you have to consider the shag-nasty factor. Nothing would fill me dread more than the idea of travelling with a family on public transport to an airport for a holiday. Like virtually everyone else with a car, I'll use it. Which leaves backpackers and budget travellers. Name one budget LoCo airline that will pay billions (or even eight quid) for infrastructure. I'll say no more.

PM
Piltdown Man is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 11:32
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 4DME
Posts: 1,899
A station makes no money for an airport running low cost airlines, were as a car park and drop off zone does!
N707ZS is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 12:46
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 46
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Piltdown Man View Post
I can imagine the future now. An excited family from Retford booking their annual holiday to the sun. "Oh Daddy! How exciting! Can we really go to the airport by train? Can I sit by the window on the way to the airport?" Little Timmy just can't wait. He and his sister are looking forward to their adventure. Their father, being a realist, looks at the train timetable and starts to think: "So we have to be at the airport at 4:39am for the flight leaving at 6:39. The shuttle bus from the station will cost 3.00 each and will take seven minutes but but runs every 20 minutes. So we will have to be there by 4:12am to make sure we are not late. Oh dear, the first train arrives at the airport at 6:32 so we will have to travel the night before and stay at the hotel nearest the airport. In Doncaster town. So we will have to..." John reconsiders his choice of airport and announces they will drive to Manchester. He was also not looking forward to the five minutes drive in a taxi to the station. He also knew his family would have to wipe their feet on the way out of the cab.

With some exceptions, travelling to and from airports by train is a non-starter. Only pathetic individuals drunk on progressive, fully-inclusive, green and eco-friendly crap come up with crackpot ideas such as putting in a rail spurs to an under-utilised airport. Trains need high demand to make planning viable as they cost millions per mile to build. So because someone took the cheap option and redeveloped an ex-airforce aerodrome (brilliant bit of tarmac) they are now paying for having it in the wrong place. When seven, eight, nine million passengers use the airport every year a rail link will also arrive. Not before. Assuming you can obtain enough slots on a fast main line to ensure a frequent, viable airport connection service. The ECML is approaching capacity now.

Lastly, you have to consider the shag-nasty factor. Nothing would fill me dread more than the idea of travelling with a family on public transport to an airport for a holiday. Like virtually everyone else with a car, I'll use it. Which leaves backpackers and budget travellers. Name one budget LoCo airline that will pay billions (or even eight quid) for infrastructure. I'll say no more.

PM
First of all in your scenario.... Your family can stay within walking distance of the airport... Secondly why would they drive to Manchester if they can drive to Doncaster Airport in 20 minutes...

I am a regular user of Doncaster and Manchester. I don't drive to Manchester if I can help it. The train is slow, but pretty reliable, unlike the roads.

When we go on a family holiday we will also use the train, whether flying from Manchester, Gatwick or Heathrow. Don't get me wrong - I'm not averse to driving.. I do a lot of it - but for my leisure I'm more than happy to sit back and let someone else have the stress of who has decided to bugger up the M1/M25/M62/M60 for the day.
davidjpowell is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 15:32
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Galway ROI
Posts: 2
The M60 Over there is unbelievably overcrowded
Here in Ireland over in Dublin motorists suffer the M50 .
Badly designed, however they did build the train and tram , not to mention good busses.
However here in the West to get to Ireland West Knock (Connaught) is the Dire N17 slowly being made motorway but it will be years before it is extended beyond Tuam .
Point is it's your choice to drive that horrific road and crazy driving standards.
Are you not better off if the flights are there then use them at your local airport.
I'm surprised when you guys are getting such luxuries as dedicated access roads and TD's in government trying to get the whole area a new station why are you against it?

Is change such an issue?.
We'd jump at links to Yorkshire , I especially as my gran lives in North Lincs.
To get her over here too a linksair flight (run by idiots).
And a 5 hour drive from Bfast City
EGPO is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 18:42
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 46
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by EGPO View Post
The M60 Over there is unbelievably overcrowded
Here in Ireland over in Dublin motorists suffer the M50 .
Badly designed, however they did build the train and tram , not to mention good busses.
However here in the West to get to Ireland West Knock (Connaught) is the Dire N17 slowly being made motorway but it will be years before it is extended beyond Tuam .
Point is it's your choice to drive that horrific road and crazy driving standards.
Are you not better off if the flights are there then use them at your local airport.
I'm surprised when you guys are getting such luxuries as dedicated access roads and TD's in government trying to get the whole area a new station why are you against it?

Is change such an issue?.
We'd jump at links to Yorkshire , I especially as my gran lives in North Lincs.
To get her over here too a linksair flight (run by idiots).
And a 5 hour drive from Bfast City
Links Air are long gone... We have direct flights to Dublin now with Flybe.... Just a hop skip and run from Galway....
davidjpowell is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 19:58
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Permanent Newbie
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
No one predicted FlyBe starting ops at DSA, so who knows.

Although, in 12 months, my belief is the airport management will be scratching around trying to find an excuse as to why FlyBe are no longer operating from DSA.
Recently did a Sat Morn - Sun night flight from DSA to Dub with a group of friends. 6.50 am flight was 80% full and flight back was 100% full.

Sun night flight was sittingg beside a weekly commuter who has been using since started, they said Fri night flight and Sun night flights are pretty much always full.

No idea of weekday flights data
racedo is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 07:49
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Beaumaris
Posts: 183
On the use of trains to airports, I think more people use this method than some realise. I always travel to BHX by train. There are frequent services from where I am by Virgin and Arriva. The station is of a very high standard and has a couple of shops, 2 restaurant/bars, Virgin lounge, ATM etc. flight departure/arrival displays and linked directly to the airport terminals by the air/rail link. There are direct services to most large UK cities, and at most one change to virtually the whole UK. Train is the best way to the airport IMHO.
FQTLSteve is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 09:14
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: sheffield
Posts: 112
To make them viable though, you need services every 15 mins or so, and the station ideally needs to be withing walking distance of the terminal (or via a frequent tram / people mover). Stations that don't provide an adequate connection to the terminal, like EMP and DTV, don't get used much.

DSA hasn't the PAX to consider such a huge undertaking.

With a major expansion and PAX growth the airport could consider a short extension to the Finningley line, bringing it to within walking distance of the terminal. But the cost would be enormous.
Barnstable is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 10:37
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Galway ROI
Posts: 2
rail link and community benefits

Guys and gals.. no offense but Your lucky to have such possibilities coming . If I may give you an example of what we have close to me .

I don't understand why so many people are so highly irate about the project that can do nothing but to benefit not just the airport.
But also the wider community Regeneration .

Out here In the Far West, Ireland, Ireland West Knock Airport which is , Ireland's 4th largest carrying well over 700.000 pax last year very impressive for an Airport in connaught and considering it's humble beginnings.
For starters it didn't even have planning approval but a little over a few years later saw runway terminal and apron improvements .
Plus it does get a lot of inward tourist flights - flocking to Knock Shrine.

It is located right next to N17 which is still classed as WS2 ( wide S2 Road) and as with many Irish N roads it has shoulders too, most folk here have an unwritten code - pulling into the shoulder to let you pass.

But there's no Airport Rail station. The nearest is Athenry but if you want Dublin or Westport you have to travel up the N17 to Sligo.
The M17 From Limerick passes Galway and will terminate a few KM South at Tuam but eventually will put the airport right against the motorway and they are not busy as yours are. But for us that could be years away.

The Catchment is limited but spread over a wide area .

It may soon see a rail route come close as ' The Great Western Rail Corridor' phase 2 and 3 may come close to the Airport - however it has a great Bus service via Bus Eireann, which links to several major towns.
These buses are fast and comfortable with stunning scenery to boot.

The point is that to look at your arguments against a rail connection , PAX Growth For Knock , last year was over 700,000 which is impressive considering how sparsely populated the area is but is listed as the 4th busiest in Ireland.

But without a doubt the Argument for a station close by would serve not just the airport but the wider community as well just as your project will yours .

But also we have the M17 project which starts way down at Limerick ( not far from Kerry Airport, which is close to great Rail Road amd Bus links ), and is being extended to Tuam.
With an Aim to link beyond Sligo to the A4 on the UK side
That road will hopefully dualled again improving the links to County Fermanagh and eventually the Duall riad and motorway to Belfast.

Such a project can but only help Bringing more pax and freight closer than ever.

The point of this post is we are late in developing all these infrastructure projects , you guys are lucky to have ... e.g. Motorways and a high speed line. ( Your East coast mainline ) a short bus ride away.
So why not support this project?
It seems that attitudes are a lot to do with how these projects are perceived.

I've read about the dismal figures and stories about your DTV airport and seen the Figures for HUY who's services seem to Echo the former.
It seems to me your DSA is doing just fine.
As I said in previous posts to answer a post where the guy wanted to sit in ever present gridlock on the M62/M60, again I'd ask why .
If you live within 20 mins if your airport and you want to Fly to AMS or. DUB for example why go through the stress of a 3 hour crawl to MAN?.
And the poster who spoke of train timings no offense but that was almost a mocking post as as yet nobody has seen plans for the line let alone the train times.
Anyone with common sense will recognise train timings will be adjusted according to the needs of the PAX and community.
EGPO is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:07
  #1156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: sheffield
Posts: 112
Cheers EGPO, maybe you should start a Ireland West Knock Airport thread if there isn't one already :-)

No one's really against a train link to DSA or anywhere else - the comments are more related to the cost / benefits and whether the presser was in any way serious, or just wanting to publicize the airport.

I take the point that in the UK we are lucky to have so many airports close to our major cities, with good access on the whole. Saying that, the difference in population between the west of Ireland and, say, the North of England means that there's a far greater demand.

One thing about DSA is you can't fly to Amsterdam or Dublin for 35 quid like you can from other airports
Barnstable is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 16:53
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Galway ROI
Posts: 2
Thank you Barnstable for your reply. I've had thru work to endure the M60 as well as visiting my nan.
And it's a horrific experience in the heat of summer trying to reach GO Practices where I was installing 'surgery poss devices similar to the selected in but allow the patient to perform health checks (e.g. blood pressure and repeat prescription reviews - to cut down on GP pressure).
Being time constrained not unlike trying to get to the airport.
Indeed some surgeries where right next to it.
I Cant understand why folk would want to put a famiky of whining children - " are we there yet".
When local airports are available.
And your right we have a lower population but I guess if you combined Sligo , Letrim, and Mayo plus some West Midlands counties.
Knock is an ideal candidate for better links.
I read that people sometimes came from Fermanagh on the UK side to Knock because good deals could be had.
Personally I would happily pay that wee bit more for a flight and save time and my sanity than ensure the M60.
One thing I would say about Doncaster I went Into the terminal and was shocked at how austere it is inside.

Given it's trying to attract more pax. I wonder if they need to provide more groundside if that's the right word facilities and even extend the terminal and Apron.

Knock was gradually extended like HUY (although the latter has a small terminal it still seems friendlier to the eye than DSA).

But seriously people need to pay less attention to press releases and politicians with little clue about airports and see the bigger picture about what a railway station there can and will provide in the coming years.
Think of the 5000 odd homes to be built . Many either 4 bedrooms or three story dwellings.
Or small apartments that's a lot of people that you don't want clogging up that new road.
It may end up becoming a thorny issue in ten years when it's proven that it should have been a dual lane road from the start.

But these days future proof g capital projects is not common practice.

I keep a keen eye on other forums and am aware of the huge jump in cargo .
I'd rather see that being loaded. Onto a train at the end of a special siding off the Ralfreight section of the scheme than a few dozen HGV's.

The UK is filling up fast so you guys like us need as many different surface access routes as possible.

Finally also be glad it's not Leeds airport I landed there wondering if it was an aircraft carrier , very windy day two go-arounds on a small aircraft was not a nice experience then trying to thread the hire car through a suburb?.
I actually turned around and ended up Getting lost going toward Harrogate before asking for directions and being frustrated by the seemingly endless time to get to central Leeds to do a job.
And get it done in good time to be back at the airport for the flight back home.
So I think Doncaster looking at a map and seeing the lay of the land is definatley in a strong position.

It just needs a few more airlines ....
EGPO is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 20:19
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 4,443
Huge numbers use the Luton Parkway, to the point that a new dedicated rail link to the terminal is to be built. Rail access may well entice more airlines to operate as they can advertise how quick passengers can get to major conurbations.
Buster the Bear is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2017, 21:52
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,378
Several posters have mentioned the airport's recent success in attracting freight operators because of its very long runway. As I see it, this guarantees the airport's future, and means that it does not have to engage in a suicidal fight to rapidly attract passenger flights, especially as they will demand major expenditure on facilities.

If the suggested major housing goes ahead, and if the public vote with their wallets and patronise the airlines that provide services, then it may rapidly get into a virtuous circle of growth. As I have pointed out, the railway from Doncaster passes over the ECML, and I think that, since the line is a major freight route, it will have had the bridges raised so that extending the electrification to Finningley will not be ridiculously expensive WHEN the demand appears, if it does.
inOban is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2017, 07:40
  #1160 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Doncaster
Age: 37
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by Barnstable View Post
Cheers EGPO, maybe you should start a Ireland West Knock Airport thread if there isn't one already :-)

No one's really against a train link to DSA or anywhere else - the comments are more related to the cost / benefits and whether the presser was in any way serious, or just wanting to publicize the airport.

I take the point that in the UK we are lucky to have so many airports close to our major cities, with good access on the whole. Saying that, the difference in population between the west of Ireland and, say, the North of England means that there's a far greater demand.

One thing about DSA is you can't fly to Amsterdam or Dublin for 35 quid like you can from other airports

I've just booked flights for two people to Amsterdam from DSA for 110 return in November.
TimmyW is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.