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BMI REGIONAL-2

Old 25th Apr 2012, 20:12
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deecie -

bmi regional have never operated ABZ-LHR.
My ticket claims it is(was)...

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Old 25th Apr 2012, 20:23
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Deccie

As it says on the ticket regional operate FOR British Midland. Regional don't own any slots at LHR. Instead bmi chooses to have full ERJs of regional running into LHR rather than 1/3 full A319s. Hope this clears things up
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Old 25th Apr 2012, 20:24
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My ticket claims it is(was)...
Operating for BMI mainline, under a "Midland" callsign, Regional's is "Kittiwake" nowadays.
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Old 25th Apr 2012, 20:32
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As it says on the ticket regional operate FOR British Midland. Regional don't own any slots at LHR. Instead bmi chooses to have full ERJs of regional running into LHR rather than 1/3 full A319s. Hope this clears things up
Nope, not really But I do appreciate the effort
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Old 25th Apr 2012, 20:49
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To be honest, what appears on a ticket 11mths from now on a route that very likely won't be operated by bmi, Regional or any combination thereof is not very important in the greater scheme of things.

If BA are no longer talking to 'Granite' as is suggested above, then that is worrying - unless there is another game in town.

If not, then what is the point of BA, having said Regional doesn't feature in its plans, not selling it to someone that puts in a reasonable offer to take it off its hands? What has BA got to lose? If Granite has the funding which supposedly it now has with a new investor, then BA should gladly sell & let's see if the Granite team can run & develop Regional...it's not exactly as if BA & Regional would be in direct competition?

Airline politics...don'tcha just love it!
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Old 25th Apr 2012, 21:09
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I imagine that BA as a large company with a high public profile will want the sale of both baby and regional to be reasonably above board. Anyone with fifty quid can go to Companies House and form a new Ltd company. Anyone can pay a pound to BA for some assets. This alone will lead to tears in the not too distant future.

The company buying bmir or baby has to be credible - not only to the CAA but also to BA who will wish to ensure employees are not completely shafted by a rogue cowboy who wants only to strip the remaining assets for a fast buck. That means a clear and sensible business plan with an experienced managememt team who have plenty of cash in the bank to staunch initial losses.

It may well be better to be given formal redundancy than work at the risk of not getting paid. Those working for regional and baby now at least know their position clearly and have between 3 and 6 months to do something about it.

Anyone up for retraining into a different career by starting at evening classes at a local college or the Open University ? Gain some transferrable skills and with something on which to fall back, things are likely to be less painful in the future.

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 26th Apr 2012 at 00:35. Reason: Fix typos
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 05:54
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Cost more than a pound as a wedge of pension will need to be payed to the buyer.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 11:36
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baby and regional have defined contribution pension plans.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 12:00
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If BA are no longer talking to 'Granite' as is suggested above, then that is worrying - unless there is another game in town. If not, then what is the point of BA, having said Regional doesn't feature in its plans, not selling it to someone that puts in a reasonable offer to take it off its hands? What has BA got to lose?
Whilst the bmi companies already hold AOCs, a change of ownership will trigger interest from the CAA. The impediments to selling BMIR and/or baby to "anyone who comes along" include the following, from the CAA website:

Finance
Before a Type A Operating Licence is granted, airlines must demonstrate that they have enough funding for the first two years of operation. Once a licence is granted, the CAA will in most cases continue to monitor their finances and may revoke the licence of any licence holder that it considers no longer has sufficient resources to carry on its business. Further details of what is required from different types of air operator after a licence is granted are set out in Licensing Airlines in the UK

Financial Resources
15. Article 5.1 of the Licensing Regulation requires that an applicant for an Operating Licence must be able to demonstrate that it can meet its obligations, established under realistic assumptions, for the first 24 months of its operation; and that it can meet its costs for the first three months of operation without any income. Article 5.2 specifies the information which must be provided for the licensing authority to reach a decision on these criteria. Article 5.3 makes an exception for operators of aircraft with less than 20 seats or 10 tonnes maximum take-off weight, who may instead either demonstrate a minimum capitalisation or supply information to the licensing authority on being requested to do so.

17. For operations using larger aircraft, the CAA requires applicants to provide a business plan for the first two years of operation and considers this to decide how much capital is necessary to meet the criteria set out in Article 5.1. It looks critically at forecast traffic, revenue and costs in the light of information on similar routes or operations, taking into account the existence of contracts and the degree of risk involved. Before reaching a final view, it discusses with the applicant any aspects where it believes the forecasts are optimistic. It then adjusts them if appropriate and indicates a figure for capitalisation which is intended to ensure that there will be a surplus of net assets and sufficient cash resources during the first two years of operation. The CAA will grant an Operating Licence only when the necessary financial arrangements have been executed and the other criteria have been met.

Financial Monitoring and Regulation
24. Article 8 of the Licensing Regulation requires operators to notify licensing authorities of changes to their operation and, if requested to do so, to supply revised business plans. Article 9 gives licensing authorities the power to suspend or revoke a licence if they are no longer satisfied that the holder can meet its financial obligations for the next 12 months. In the UK, decisions by the CAA are subject to published procedures and to appeal to the Secretary of State, as set out in the CAA Regulations7 [7].

25. The Licensing Regulation leaves it to the discretion of licensing authorities how far they should regulate an operatorís finances after an Operating Licence has been granted, and the extent to which the CAA intervenes in the finances of licensed airlines varies according to the category of business. It does so chiefly where there is a consumer protection issue, and where it has the ability to influence events so as to benefit the operatorís customers; there is also an issue of materiality, with the potential benefits set against the costs of monitoring.

27. The CAA monitors the financial performance and position of most other operators, and may in certain circumstances take action to revoke an Operating Licence. Its objective in doing so is primarily to secure a better outcome for the travelling public, and revocation will in many cases not have this effect: revoking a licence will turn a potential failure into an actual failure and may lead to losses on the part of ticket holders and disruption to passengersí travel plans. However, revocation or suspension may still achieve a benefit if it minimises the effects of an inevitable failure, and this may happen where a charter operatorís licence is revoked outside the peak season or a scheduled operatorís licence is revoked so as to prevent planned expansion. These principles are behind the extent to which the CAA may require more detailed information from certain types of operator at particular times, such as prior to major expansions.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 12:28
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So a business plan and finance required for 2 years. The first 3 months financed assuming no income. The longer time goes on the less convinced I am this will be met by granite.

Also willy's latest mumblings are less than encouraging. I'm afraid I see the positive talk about a buyout of regional as nothing more than management spin. Good luck to all my fantastic colleagues, it's been a pleasure. Shame we have to rely on the bbc for information about our future.
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 13:12
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Shame we have to rely on the bbc for information about our future.
it was never any different!

good luck to all the troops

D and F
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Old 26th Apr 2012, 13:30
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So a business plan and finance required for 2 years. The first 3 months financed assuming no income.
BMIR already holds an AOC, so rather than that I suspect the following is more likely to be what the CAA will be looking for in any new owner of the airline:

24. Article 8 of the Licensing Regulation requires operators to notify licensing authorities of changes to their operation and, if requested to do so, to supply revised business plans. Article 9 gives licensing authorities the power to suspend or revoke a licence if they are no longer satisfied that the holder can meet its financial obligations for the next 12 months.
So any new owner is likely to have to not only find the price BA is asking, but also satisfy the CAA that the airline will be financially sound for at least a year.

Andy
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 08:16
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Quote from WW reported in Belfast telegraph today.

"There has been one interested party in talks and two expressions of interest so far in bmi Regional and there are three interested parties in bmibaby, with one new party coming on board for talks in the last few days.



Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/ba-boss-flights-tax-could-put-belfast-to-heathrow-at-risk-16150742.html#ixzz1tE74zHcr
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 09:21
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What I am hearing is that Granite have virtually completed the deal and that by early next week they will be taking control.

Graham Ross has been in the offices alot recently as well.
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 10:02
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I've heard that the deal has been on the verge of completion for months....

Lets see what next week brings...(repeat next friday)

May I ask your source?
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 10:42
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Looking more hopeful

BBC News - BMI Regional sale talks advance
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 11:08
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....could keep the BMI brand.....
Sounds like a recipe for confusion imo. Why keep a potentially damaged brand that many pax will presume no longer exists after the IAG takeover?

I'm sure it's better that the Granite deal goes through, but there must still be questions over what they plan to do with bmir. When they first got involved there were claims in the press of "Scottish" branding and expansion in cooperation with other unnamed N European airlines. Now we're hearing that they want to call themselves bmi!

What are they going to do at the end of the summer when they no longer have to do any flying for mainline? What about the flights for SN and others? It would seem that at the end of the summer season they're going to have a lot of aircraft with nothing to do. I wonder if under Granite, instead of expansion we could see the airline shrink dramatically to a handful of routes out of ABZ subsidised by the oil industry?
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 12:31
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May I ask your source?
It's a rumour network, but corridor conversations with managers can be revealing. Sometimes for the things they DON'T say!!!
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 12:41
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Thanks. Well we'll see in the next couple of weeks. Forgive my pessimism only I've heard that before
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Old 27th Apr 2012, 13:27
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VanG, I know exactly what you mean. The "announcement on Friday" mantra has been appalling. The lack of information from Donington Hall incredible, even management levels have been mushroomed.

I only hope that the Granite team get the hint and actually start talking to the troops. It would be a novel approach after the past years of being kept in the dark.
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