BMI REGIONAL-2
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I only hope that the Granite team get the hint and actually start talking to the troops.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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This is surely heart over head stuff. Mr Woodley sold his baby years ago and now is getting involved to try and stop it being closed down and not for primary commercial reasons that a.n. other investor would look at. The airline world has moved a long way from the mid 90s.
I know Scott Grier did something similar with Loganair when it was merged into British Regional but Loganair is pretty much where is always has been in a world that hasn't changed all that much.
I know Scott Grier did something similar with Loganair when it was merged into British Regional but Loganair is pretty much where is always has been in a world that hasn't changed all that much.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Think you are right, anyone who gets involved in running an airline is essentially a romantic......how to make a small fortune, start with a big one, stand in a strong wind ripping up 50 quid notes spring to mind.
If Granite take on regional it will be very interesting to see how they plan on developing it.
In the Biz Air days they had Saab's flying 15 hours a day and I am not sure they ever made a meaningful profit if at all. Mail bags in an EMB isn't going to work, the regional airline model has (for the moment at least) been definitively defined by FlyBe.
If Granite take on regional it will be very interesting to see how they plan on developing it.
In the Biz Air days they had Saab's flying 15 hours a day and I am not sure they ever made a meaningful profit if at all. Mail bags in an EMB isn't going to work, the regional airline model has (for the moment at least) been definitively defined by FlyBe.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I know IW and GR (not the other fella), they are competent and decent people. I don't know anything about running an airline, however even for a lay person it is difficult to see how regional can continue to run and make enough money to survive in its present format. Carrying half a dozen people down to Norwich a couple of times a day doesn't work.
It is going to be interesting to see what they have in mind. I agree with the previous poster, while I am no expert, they should look at alot more wet/damp lease work and cherry pick the present scheduled routes.
Just as an absurd aside (this is rumourville), I wonder why there is talk on keeping the bmi name, perhaps SMB just can't stay away (the aviation draw) and needs to spend some of his millions.
The main thing is that it all doesn't go down the pan....good luck
It is going to be interesting to see what they have in mind. I agree with the previous poster, while I am no expert, they should look at alot more wet/damp lease work and cherry pick the present scheduled routes.
Just as an absurd aside (this is rumourville), I wonder why there is talk on keeping the bmi name, perhaps SMB just can't stay away (the aviation draw) and needs to spend some of his millions.
The main thing is that it all doesn't go down the pan....good luck
Join Date: Dec 2008
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You are quite right that FlyBe have defined how a regional airline should operate, but,a) their own finances are pretty poor at the moment, and b) the T&C's for the crews are pretty poor even by regional airline standards. It would seem an easier option to let BR fold and start again from scratch if Mr W et al. wish to be in the Scottish regional airline game again. Unless, of course, there is any incentive from the Scottish government to save the existing outfit.
I suspect that Lord Glendonbrook will have other fish to fry by now
I suspect that Lord Glendonbrook will have other fish to fry by now
lazy fairweather PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
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macdo
a) True, the regional game is a tough one and I think anyone struggles to make money out of it.
b) Not true. Just looked at PPJN, Flybe's Ts & Cs are just a little under BMIRs for the turboprop and about the same if not a little better on the Ejits. Pension contribution from the company is better. Duty pay the same and leave entitlement about the same.
Why the dig?
a) True, the regional game is a tough one and I think anyone struggles to make money out of it.
b) Not true. Just looked at PPJN, Flybe's Ts & Cs are just a little under BMIRs for the turboprop and about the same if not a little better on the Ejits. Pension contribution from the company is better. Duty pay the same and leave entitlement about the same.
Why the dig?
Join Date: Mar 2009
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BA calls on adviser to step down - FT.com
BA calls on adviser to step down
British Airways has asked Lord Jones of Birmingham to step down from his advisory role at the company after joining the board of regional airline Flybe, because of potential conflicts of interest.
The UK flag-carrier’s concerns highlight its increased exposure to short- and medium-haul routes following its purchase of BMI. BA had originally assured Lord Jones, a former trade minister and CBI director-general, that a directorship at the Exeter-based regional airline on top of his role as chairman of BA’s international business advisory board would not constitute a conflict of interest.
But it changed that position last week, days after its parent company International Airlines Group completed a deal to buy lossmaking BMI and its constituent regional and low-cost airlines – both of which IAG had hoped would be sold separately.
“While there is no particular conflict, they just think it’s too close for comfort,” said Lord Jones. His position at the company was unpaid and due to finish at the end of this year.
IAG holds 14 per cent of Flybe shares. But the concerns appear to have less to do with that stake than with possible overlapping markets, and suggest IAG holds little hope of selling both BMIbaby and BMI Regional in the immediate future. It is expected to close them if it cannot find buyers.
The company’s main interest in BMI, which made pre-tax losses of €181m under Lufthansa last year, was its take-off and landing slots at Heathrow airport, many of which BA hopes to use for high-margin long-haul routes to emerging markets, particularly in Asia. Still, BA is integrating BMI’s mainline operations, including about 1,500 workers, and intends to continue flying some BMI routes for the long term.
“We’re keen to strengthen our regional network in the UK,” said a BA spokesman last week, referring to routes between London and the regions. While Flybe has some slots at Gatwick airport, it overlaps little with BA and BMI mainline flights. But it does compete with BMI’s smaller regional and budget airlines.
Analysts at Liberum estimate that a BMIbaby closure would add £37m to Flybe’s top line and £6m of incremental earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, amortisation and aircraft rent.
Lord Jones said on Friday that “BA is a great airline and I fly them a hell of a lot and I’m sure we’ll stay very much in touch”.
Andrew Crawley, BA’s commercial director, said: “Digby [Jones] has been a great supporter of British Airways and a formidable chairman of our International Business Advisory Board. I’d like to thank him for his valuable contribution and wish him every success.”
Wonder why BA would bother asking for this advisor to step down due to a conflict of interest (also working for Flybe) if they were going to dispatch of bmi regional in the next few weeks?
BA calls on adviser to step down
British Airways has asked Lord Jones of Birmingham to step down from his advisory role at the company after joining the board of regional airline Flybe, because of potential conflicts of interest.
The UK flag-carrier’s concerns highlight its increased exposure to short- and medium-haul routes following its purchase of BMI. BA had originally assured Lord Jones, a former trade minister and CBI director-general, that a directorship at the Exeter-based regional airline on top of his role as chairman of BA’s international business advisory board would not constitute a conflict of interest.
But it changed that position last week, days after its parent company International Airlines Group completed a deal to buy lossmaking BMI and its constituent regional and low-cost airlines – both of which IAG had hoped would be sold separately.
“While there is no particular conflict, they just think it’s too close for comfort,” said Lord Jones. His position at the company was unpaid and due to finish at the end of this year.
IAG holds 14 per cent of Flybe shares. But the concerns appear to have less to do with that stake than with possible overlapping markets, and suggest IAG holds little hope of selling both BMIbaby and BMI Regional in the immediate future. It is expected to close them if it cannot find buyers.
The company’s main interest in BMI, which made pre-tax losses of €181m under Lufthansa last year, was its take-off and landing slots at Heathrow airport, many of which BA hopes to use for high-margin long-haul routes to emerging markets, particularly in Asia. Still, BA is integrating BMI’s mainline operations, including about 1,500 workers, and intends to continue flying some BMI routes for the long term.
“We’re keen to strengthen our regional network in the UK,” said a BA spokesman last week, referring to routes between London and the regions. While Flybe has some slots at Gatwick airport, it overlaps little with BA and BMI mainline flights. But it does compete with BMI’s smaller regional and budget airlines.
Analysts at Liberum estimate that a BMIbaby closure would add £37m to Flybe’s top line and £6m of incremental earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, amortisation and aircraft rent.
Lord Jones said on Friday that “BA is a great airline and I fly them a hell of a lot and I’m sure we’ll stay very much in touch”.
Andrew Crawley, BA’s commercial director, said: “Digby [Jones] has been a great supporter of British Airways and a formidable chairman of our International Business Advisory Board. I’d like to thank him for his valuable contribution and wish him every success.”
Wonder why BA would bother asking for this advisor to step down due to a conflict of interest (also working for Flybe) if they were going to dispatch of bmi regional in the next few weeks?
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No dig intended, just observation. My impression is that FlyBe had embraced the race to the bottom, my personal experience was that working for BMR was a better experience than being at FlyBe, backed up by multiple threads on PPRuNe complaining about the working conditions at FlyBe and the amount of people trying to leave. The main point was that if you want to run a Scottish Regional airline successfully, it would probably be as well to take the most successful business plan and start from scratch, without carrying any baggage from the past. This, of course, will suit the 'suits' and accountants, but will be to the detriment of the staff. Finally, a question mark hangs heavily over whether or not a Scottish Regional carrier is viable at all in the economic climate that we now enjoy. History is littered with failed regional airlines.
Once again, no dig is intended at anyone, I spent some of the best years of my career working up in the Highlands and wish all the staff the best of luck.
Once again, no dig is intended at anyone, I spent some of the best years of my career working up in the Highlands and wish all the staff the best of luck.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I saw a Flybe aircraft today in Brussels Airlines colours...
Also, Flybe seem to be making a move on baby routes. Maybe this is why this advisor was asked to step down. Though its a fairly obvious coordinated 'attack' by IAG/Flybe.
Also, Flybe seem to be making a move on baby routes. Maybe this is why this advisor was asked to step down. Though its a fairly obvious coordinated 'attack' by IAG/Flybe.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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IAG in it's various forms and stakeholdings will eventually have a complete stranglehold on British aviation. In some ways we should be thankful that BA let GO drift off into the Orange sunset, otherwise they would probably have dominated the Lo Co market as well.
It is probably much more difficult now, to start a UK based airline than it was in the era of BA being a state run enterprise...
It is probably much more difficult now, to start a UK based airline than it was in the era of BA being a state run enterprise...
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Brussels airlines have given notice on bmir's two wet leased aircraft serving bru from Bristol and Newcastle. That means they finish at the end of the summer schedule unless they do a last minute u turn.
D and F
D and F
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flybe to start EMA routes
To lure pax away from bmir and bmibaby 
Travelmole
03 May 2012
Flybe offers alternative to Heathrow
Flybe will offer five new routes from East Midlands next winter, flying to Amsterdam, Paris CDG, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Jersey and basing two aircraft at the airport for the first time.
It said today it was still finalising schedules and frequencies with the airport for travel from October 28 to March 30.
Flybe said the new routes to Amsterdam and Paris CDG would plug into international flights from the major hubs, providing passengers based in the East Midlands with an alternative to London Heathrow.
Travelmole
03 May 2012
Flybe offers alternative to Heathrow
Flybe will offer five new routes from East Midlands next winter, flying to Amsterdam, Paris CDG, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Jersey and basing two aircraft at the airport for the first time.
It said today it was still finalising schedules and frequencies with the airport for travel from October 28 to March 30.
Flybe said the new routes to Amsterdam and Paris CDG would plug into international flights from the major hubs, providing passengers based in the East Midlands with an alternative to London Heathrow.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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If Flybe can pick up the pieces it will.
IAG still has a foot hold in Flybe so will offload if the finances make sense keeping the price reduction for the BMI purchase in the IAG coffers.
IAG still has a foot hold in Flybe so will offload if the finances make sense keeping the price reduction for the BMI purchase in the IAG coffers.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Strikes me that the whole sales process of Baby & Regional has stitch up written all over it.
There was an article in the Sunday Times that said that flyBE would benefit significantly if both baby and regional were to disappear. Is Willy Walsh that machevallian? Ultimately the benfit would flow back into IAG through their shareholding.
IAG really have managed to get the deal of the century in this, but at the cost of how many jobs?
There was an article in the Sunday Times that said that flyBE would benefit significantly if both baby and regional were to disappear. Is Willy Walsh that machevallian? Ultimately the benfit would flow back into IAG through their shareholding.
IAG really have managed to get the deal of the century in this, but at the cost of how many jobs?
lazy fairweather PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
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I understand the strength of feeling that must be prevalent at both Baby and Regional, so its not surprising that some feel the need to lash out. However. a few points to note:
The Sunday Times chappie was probably quite right in his analysis, but of course this would be true for any airline in the regional sector. Whatever happens to one of your competitors will have a direct result on those remaining, that goes without saying. The fact that he reported it as unique to this case goes a long way to describing the sort of inflammatory journalism we see these days.
Flybe will have had absolutely zero do to with whether Baby is sold or not. The truth remains that Lufty couldn't sell it, even when it was positively in their very best interest to do so. BA/IAG inherited it, and as someone else on these forums quite rightly pointed out, are not known for sympathetic business solutions. They will have looked at the best option FOR THEM and put it into action, harsh, but common business practice. Call it a stitch-up if you like but I believe that's a gross over-simplification. I can't even guess what went on behind closed doors, stranger than fiction probably.
This has nothing to do with Regional, that particular scenario is still to play out (as has Baby's), I have no knowledge or insight as to possible outcomes. I see no reason why it could not thrive as a stand alone enterprise.
Anyway, the very best of luck to all involved.
The Sunday Times chappie was probably quite right in his analysis, but of course this would be true for any airline in the regional sector. Whatever happens to one of your competitors will have a direct result on those remaining, that goes without saying. The fact that he reported it as unique to this case goes a long way to describing the sort of inflammatory journalism we see these days.
Flybe will have had absolutely zero do to with whether Baby is sold or not. The truth remains that Lufty couldn't sell it, even when it was positively in their very best interest to do so. BA/IAG inherited it, and as someone else on these forums quite rightly pointed out, are not known for sympathetic business solutions. They will have looked at the best option FOR THEM and put it into action, harsh, but common business practice. Call it a stitch-up if you like but I believe that's a gross over-simplification. I can't even guess what went on behind closed doors, stranger than fiction probably.
This has nothing to do with Regional, that particular scenario is still to play out (as has Baby's), I have no knowledge or insight as to possible outcomes. I see no reason why it could not thrive as a stand alone enterprise.
Anyway, the very best of luck to all involved.
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OK so what's the latest?
Everytime there's negative news from Willie it's responded to by some positive spin which I'm sure is leaked from Aberdeen. Who do we believe?
The deal hasn't been completed by the end of April which was the latest carrot dangled.
Are Flybe involved in this rather than Granite? Wouldn't it be better for BA to let a competitor to Flybe/their shorthaul network get shut down?
Conversely, wouldn't it be better for Granite to let us get shut down and then just pick up the (desirable) pieces for free?
Has another investor pulled out? (latest RUMOUR I've heard)
In the absence of any solid information and with recent events the rumours are going to snowball...
My deepest sympathies to the baby guys and gals, I hope they can at least start planning their futures based on more certain details of their present position. Just wonder when the news will hit our doorsteps, whatever it is.
Everytime there's negative news from Willie it's responded to by some positive spin which I'm sure is leaked from Aberdeen. Who do we believe?
The deal hasn't been completed by the end of April which was the latest carrot dangled.
Are Flybe involved in this rather than Granite? Wouldn't it be better for BA to let a competitor to Flybe/their shorthaul network get shut down?
Conversely, wouldn't it be better for Granite to let us get shut down and then just pick up the (desirable) pieces for free?
Has another investor pulled out? (latest RUMOUR I've heard)
In the absence of any solid information and with recent events the rumours are going to snowball...
My deepest sympathies to the baby guys and gals, I hope they can at least start planning their futures based on more certain details of their present position. Just wonder when the news will hit our doorsteps, whatever it is.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Have heard that things are moving in the right direction for Granite and that they are talking to the CC. The CC are keen work with Granite to keep things going to make sure there are no job losses.
The SN Brussels contract has not got management to phased so they must have something up their sleeve to replace it.
The SN Brussels contract has not got management to phased so they must have something up their sleeve to replace it.
