SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning
I think it needs emphasising here that the SEN case isn't simply one whereby an airport is calling itself London, as certainly is the case with CBG and OXF etc.. The fact is that IATA have accepted that SEN is justifiably a London airport, whereas they are extremely unlikely to do so for the others mentioned.
Perhaps the LCY management are not aware that SEN is preferred alternate for BA Cityflyer, Cityjet and a few others. I would suggest that those carriers do not share the view of SEN being " ......a field on the East coast.", but the best choice in terms of minimising passenger inconvenience and schedule disruption.
Tagron
One of the main aims of IATA in designating which airports serve a particular city is that it enables travel agents worldwide to offer their clients a choice of flights to a number of suitable airports, which they could not do otherwise without local knowledge of the area. I agree with your perhaps tongue-in-cheek idea in principle but it would actually only produce more confusion for the traveller.
Perhaps the LCY management are not aware that SEN is preferred alternate for BA Cityflyer, Cityjet and a few others. I would suggest that those carriers do not share the view of SEN being " ......a field on the East coast.", but the best choice in terms of minimising passenger inconvenience and schedule disruption.
Tagron
One of the main aims of IATA in designating which airports serve a particular city is that it enables travel agents worldwide to offer their clients a choice of flights to a number of suitable airports, which they could not do otherwise without local knowledge of the area. I agree with your perhaps tongue-in-cheek idea in principle but it would actually only produce more confusion for the traveller.
Citalia Holidays
Italian holiday specialists Citalia have added SEN departures to their 2013 Italian Cities holiday programme. Taking seats on the easyJet SEN-VCE route, the programme begins 8 February 2013 and runs through to the end of October. SEN becomes the 10th UK airport from which the company offers holday departures to Venice.
Last edited by Expressflight; 7th Aug 2012 at 08:03. Reason: Grammar
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When I was selling stuff on eBay a year or so back one of my buyers, with a non British sounding family name, notified me that her address was "Luton, London".
When I questioned if she lived in Luton, Bedfordshire or in London I became informed that it was the local airport identity that had confused her!
When I questioned if she lived in Luton, Bedfordshire or in London I became informed that it was the local airport identity that had confused her!
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Citalia Holidays
On the Citalia Holidays website they don't call Southend 'London Southend' but just 'Southend'. I thought they said that from now on all holiday companies would use 'London Southend' on their flights and holiday searches?
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Don't think that not listing Southend under London will cost it any bookings as UK holiday companies will be selling holidays to the British who will know that Southend is by the sea.
It will be interesting to see if there is a price premium for flights from Southend. Companies like Thomson can load several hundreds of pounds per family for flights that don’t depart from Gatwick.
Might well explain why Gatwick is number one for IT when one of my neighbours who lives no more than a mile from Luton picked a family holiday from Gatwick due to the amount of money he saved despite simular flight times.
It will be interesting to see if there is a price premium for flights from Southend. Companies like Thomson can load several hundreds of pounds per family for flights that don’t depart from Gatwick.
Might well explain why Gatwick is number one for IT when one of my neighbours who lives no more than a mile from Luton picked a family holiday from Gatwick due to the amount of money he saved despite simular flight times.
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That was a big whoopsie. Mind you, without the train station it was hardly a London airport - although that only required a certain amount of investment? They could have made quite a packet by upping sticks at Gatwick and selling their slots, and then had a monopoly at SEN. Oh for the missed opportunities...
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Mind you, without the train station it was hardly a London airport
So in your eyes Southend isn't a London Airport for those early morning departures and late arrivals when there is no train service and isn't for any passengers using a car
If I said that you would have attacked me yet you admit it.
Last edited by LTNman; 7th Aug 2012 at 22:09.
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They could have made quite a packet by upping sticks at Gatwick and selling
their slots, and then had a monopoly at SEN. Oh for the missed
opportunities...
E.g. BHD - never achieve 20k pax per month
JER ?? Wasnt and isnt breaking delph so if you think it is a direct transfer to SEN you would be mistaken, the competition would fill some of the void.
Elsewhere, Flybe increasingly looking to interlining for pax, not available ex SEN
Flybe not well know around Europe in the way EZY is. EZY is best placed of all airlines to make a sucess of SEN.
Flybe not cheap, so from a route development point of view, dont see them as being particularly ideal.
However, nothing to still stop them coming into SEN and doing short routes domestically or near Europe with 175 or 400s. Easyjet may have 3 aircraft but they have in essence at this point a handful of routes, more than ample room for BE to fit in. Besides I cant imagine if BE had set up a base at SEN that they would have went after half of the routes that EZY have. Maybe AMS but not Belfast or any of the longer holiday routes.
EI-BUD
LTNman
A quick check on the Citalia website shows that using LGW as the baseline, SEN departures are about 5% more expensive and LCY about 20% more expensive. I would think that those figures make SEN quite an attractive proposition taking everything else into account.
I do agree with you that the current lack of early morning train arrivals at SEN from London is a problem and I know every effort is being made to resolve the situation. As far as getting to/from SEN by road is concerned I don't see there is any problem with SEN being designated a London airport, especially as both the A127 and A13 can be used in the event of delays on one or the other.
A quick check on the Citalia website shows that using LGW as the baseline, SEN departures are about 5% more expensive and LCY about 20% more expensive. I would think that those figures make SEN quite an attractive proposition taking everything else into account.
I do agree with you that the current lack of early morning train arrivals at SEN from London is a problem and I know every effort is being made to resolve the situation. As far as getting to/from SEN by road is concerned I don't see there is any problem with SEN being designated a London airport, especially as both the A127 and A13 can be used in the event of delays on one or the other.
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I agree that EZY is a much better catch for SEN that FlyBE, but FlyBE could operate services to France and Germany from SEN which would be quite attractive to the local catchment as well as to Londoners - should also attract the French and Germans to a London terminal. Domestically Glasgow and Edinburgh are still available from SEN - the large RBS presence at Southend should make those routes attractive. I guess FlyBE have other things on their mind, as well as a small bit of unwillingness to admit an earlier mistake in not seeing the potential of SEN?
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I agree...
Flybe would be perfect for double daily services to EDI, GLA, ABZ and near-Europe centres in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland, Scandinavia, Austria etc etc.
I could see it surpassing SOU in importance if they were to really develop a base.
I also agree they probably didn't see the viability or success looming and were probably basing their asusmptions on the passenger profiles of their SEN-JER route which of course would give a squewed outlook.
Flybe would be perfect for double daily services to EDI, GLA, ABZ and near-Europe centres in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland, Scandinavia, Austria etc etc.
I could see it surpassing SOU in importance if they were to really develop a base.
I also agree they probably didn't see the viability or success looming and were probably basing their asusmptions on the passenger profiles of their SEN-JER route which of course would give a squewed outlook.
Last edited by shamrock7seal; 8th Aug 2012 at 08:54.
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Domestically Glasgow and Edinburgh are still available from SEN - the large RBS presence at Southend should make those routes attractive
Would be nice to see the airport getting another operator. Would Wizz consider splitting its London operations between Luton and Southend?
Wizz being so well known by Poles, I feel that moving some flights would have minimal effect and lower cost base?? 319 perfectly suitable.
EI-BUD
Wizz being so well known by Poles, I feel that moving some flights would have minimal effect and lower cost base?? 319 perfectly suitable.
Problem is that Wizzair fleet is A320.
Problem is that Wizzair fleet is A320.
FlyBe are taking another 3 175s this year according to Jethro's. These seem to be replacing some of the Dash 8s, so I'm not sure that FlyBe have the capacity to start new, unproven routes at present.
They have recently announced lower profits, so that's another reason why they aren't likely to want to throw resources in to money-burning start-up routes from an unproved base.
Sorry!
They have recently announced lower profits, so that's another reason why they aren't likely to want to throw resources in to money-burning start-up routes from an unproved base.
Sorry!
Full payload A320 operations from SEN to Polish destinations should be entirely feasible.
Although that statement is based on study of material from the Airbus website, and I fully acknowledge the potential pitfalls of this method, some corroboration is available elsewhere from a recent report that an A320 operator had studied A320 performance from SEN and concluded that AGP and FAO were viable destinations.. As always, welcome comment anyone with more authentic information.
Straight line distances from SEN are: FAO 948nm, AGP 921nm, WAW 749nm, Lublin LUZ (furthest likely Polish destination) 820nm.
Of course Polish routes would be a good fit for SEN insofar as EZY is not a major player in the Polish market. Would Wizzair really want to move part of their operation and how keen would SEN be to have them ? They seem to have a reputation that rivals Ryanair's, whether deserved or not I do not know. And this is all just a speculation with no basis in reality I think ?
There is a good case for saying that the development of domestic routes from SEN would be better served by smaller aircraft operating at greater frequency than is likely with an A319. If the business case is strong then sooner or later someone will pick it up. For whatever reason, Flybe turned their backs on SEN. I don’t think we should be too concerned at their absence.
Although that statement is based on study of material from the Airbus website, and I fully acknowledge the potential pitfalls of this method, some corroboration is available elsewhere from a recent report that an A320 operator had studied A320 performance from SEN and concluded that AGP and FAO were viable destinations.. As always, welcome comment anyone with more authentic information.
Straight line distances from SEN are: FAO 948nm, AGP 921nm, WAW 749nm, Lublin LUZ (furthest likely Polish destination) 820nm.
Of course Polish routes would be a good fit for SEN insofar as EZY is not a major player in the Polish market. Would Wizzair really want to move part of their operation and how keen would SEN be to have them ? They seem to have a reputation that rivals Ryanair's, whether deserved or not I do not know. And this is all just a speculation with no basis in reality I think ?
There is a good case for saying that the development of domestic routes from SEN would be better served by smaller aircraft operating at greater frequency than is likely with an A319. If the business case is strong then sooner or later someone will pick it up. For whatever reason, Flybe turned their backs on SEN. I don’t think we should be too concerned at their absence.
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Would be nice to see the airport getting another operator. Would Wizz consider splitting its London operations between Luton and Southend?
A quick check on the Citalia website shows that using LGW as the baseline, SEN departures are about 5% more expensive and LCY about 20% more expensive. I would think that those figures make SEN quite an attractive proposition taking everything else into account.
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I listened. It was a good item, with Simon Calder and Southend Councillor Derek Jarvis. Overall it made London City look a bit silly, and was excellent publicity for SEN. Well done, Beeb.