Aer Lingus Regional
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Any ideas whats up with the two Cork based birds tonight? Believe one is stuck in Cork and the other in Glasgow..... Both Manc and Glasgow(inbound) flights down as cancelled!
I know EI-SLN has been based there pretty much for the last fortnight - I guess it is too much to ask for that old lady not to go tech on a regular basis! Women!
I'm flying on one of them first thing so usually like to anticipate a problem before it happens. EIR cope fairly well with one A/C out of service....but the fleet isnt big enough to cope with two or three failures. With any luck I might be sat on the Titan Avro tomorrow
I know EI-SLN has been based there pretty much for the last fortnight - I guess it is too much to ask for that old lady not to go tech on a regular basis! Women!
I'm flying on one of them first thing so usually like to anticipate a problem before it happens. EIR cope fairly well with one A/C out of service....but the fleet isnt big enough to cope with two or three failures. With any luck I might be sat on the Titan Avro tomorrow
I understand that Aer Arann are in need of cash and are doing so by taking Stobart on as an investor.
I don't understand why Stobart believe a large minority stake in a small regional airline like Aer Arann is a good investment for what is essentially a logistics + airport management company.
Could someone who is familiar with the set-up (don't just give a random guess - I can do that too) explain the business logic behind this please ?
I don't understand why Stobart believe a large minority stake in a small regional airline like Aer Arann is a good investment for what is essentially a logistics + airport management company.
Could someone who is familiar with the set-up (don't just give a random guess - I can do that too) explain the business logic behind this please ?
davidjohnson6
I suspect there will be more people who agree with your assessment than are able to supply an answer to your question - me among them. It does seem a strange move, especially now that EIR are no longer as important to SEN as they were 18 months ago. Has the size of Stobart's additional investment in RE been revealed yet?
I suspect there will be more people who agree with your assessment than are able to supply an answer to your question - me among them. It does seem a strange move, especially now that EIR are no longer as important to SEN as they were 18 months ago. Has the size of Stobart's additional investment in RE been revealed yet?
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I understand that Aer Arann are in need of cash and are doing so by taking Stobart on as an investor.
I don't understand why Stobart believe a large minority stake in a small regional airline like Aer Arann is a good investment for what is essentially a logistics + airport management company.
Could someone who is familiar with the set-up (don't just give a random guess - I can do that too) explain the business logic behind this please ?
I don't understand why Stobart believe a large minority stake in a small regional airline like Aer Arann is a good investment for what is essentially a logistics + airport management company.
Could someone who is familiar with the set-up (don't just give a random guess - I can do that too) explain the business logic behind this please ?
The Competition Authority: News & Publications » News Releases » Competition Authority clears Stobart acquisition of Aer Arann
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Aer Arran are a transportation company, as are Stobarts.
Their aim was to develop Carlisle and presumably Southend airports into cargo hubs, allowing them to send cargo to and from Europe by air, on their own cargo airline. Far easier to buy an existing carrier and launch cargo flights, than to try and get their own AOC. Obviously Aer Arran were available at a good price, and Stobarts jumped at the chance.
Their aim was to develop Carlisle and presumably Southend airports into cargo hubs, allowing them to send cargo to and from Europe by air, on their own cargo airline. Far easier to buy an existing carrier and launch cargo flights, than to try and get their own AOC. Obviously Aer Arran were available at a good price, and Stobarts jumped at the chance.
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The additional stake has always been on the cards, they had the option from the outset. I dont see freight is the only interest, or else why build a passenger terminal and rail station.
I see little synergy, having been a senior manager in a haulage company. The client base is totally different, self-loading freight buys its own tickets one by one, Stobart's freight clients sign up multi-year multi-million £ contracts. Also, haulage is far less regulated, has lower capital requirements, shorter-life assets, etc.
I presume they can find a logic, but I can't.
I presume they can find a logic, but I can't.
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Stobart will have a plan......a company of that size wont't make such an investment without one. It is much easier to buy an airline than start one from scratch.
There might not be significant cross over between Stobart and Arann but I honestly believe that Arann could be a viable business as a standalone. Stobart have a huge marketing presence in the UK and Ireland. Arann and Aer Lingus are useless at marketing in the UK. I would say that most UK people are oblivious to their operations (unless from London/Manc/Edin). People automatically think Ryanair when they need to travel to Ireland. As a regular commuter on EIR mainly from MME, BLK and MAN the local population at MME and BLK don't/didn't know they could fly locally to Dub. During the 1 year they flew to MME, I only ever saw 1 advertisement and I would consider myself their target audience. That advertisement was in the arrivals hall in MME.....which meant that there was about a 50% chance you had just arrived on the service they were advertising. Stobart have a huge following in the UK and Ireland.
Where it would tie in with the Stobart ops would be the introduction of freighters. I assume because they have a couple of airports already they are already flying stuff through a third party airlines? I am pretty positive that they fly freight out of Carlisle. You add a couple of freighters to the Arann fleet then there is a good area of business to target...clients of jet2 freight like Royal Mail. If Stobart freight wanted to really branch into Europe hard then an air service would be of great benefit. Who knows, the big plan could even be something as mad as to get into a TNT/DHL style operation however I doubt that.
They could also go into charters - they have many corporate connections they could really diversify into anything they want and get away with it!
I think the investment of Stobart in SEN will prove golden to them.......it won't be instant but over the next 5-10 years it will establish itself. Carlisle airport perhaps isnt in such a good place. As much as I hate NCL, it is very easily accessible from most of the north via road and rail.
I belong to a consortium that was for a little while in discussion with acquiring Air Southwest when they went belly up. I know its a few years ago but I am sure there was talk of Stobart being interested in them so there has to be some kind of plan to acquire an airline - that hasn't just happened overnight.
Alot may depend on if FR take over EI and where that would leave the franchise agreement? Anyone have an idea on that? I would hate to lose EIR!
Anyway I am currently sat in MAN waiting for the ORK bird to arrive nearly 3 hours late....Last nights was cancelled.....Stobart have an uphill battle on their hands if they don't want to invest in something that will damage their reputation. No sign of the free vouchers as per....Menzies are very good at hiding!
There might not be significant cross over between Stobart and Arann but I honestly believe that Arann could be a viable business as a standalone. Stobart have a huge marketing presence in the UK and Ireland. Arann and Aer Lingus are useless at marketing in the UK. I would say that most UK people are oblivious to their operations (unless from London/Manc/Edin). People automatically think Ryanair when they need to travel to Ireland. As a regular commuter on EIR mainly from MME, BLK and MAN the local population at MME and BLK don't/didn't know they could fly locally to Dub. During the 1 year they flew to MME, I only ever saw 1 advertisement and I would consider myself their target audience. That advertisement was in the arrivals hall in MME.....which meant that there was about a 50% chance you had just arrived on the service they were advertising. Stobart have a huge following in the UK and Ireland.
Where it would tie in with the Stobart ops would be the introduction of freighters. I assume because they have a couple of airports already they are already flying stuff through a third party airlines? I am pretty positive that they fly freight out of Carlisle. You add a couple of freighters to the Arann fleet then there is a good area of business to target...clients of jet2 freight like Royal Mail. If Stobart freight wanted to really branch into Europe hard then an air service would be of great benefit. Who knows, the big plan could even be something as mad as to get into a TNT/DHL style operation however I doubt that.
They could also go into charters - they have many corporate connections they could really diversify into anything they want and get away with it!
I think the investment of Stobart in SEN will prove golden to them.......it won't be instant but over the next 5-10 years it will establish itself. Carlisle airport perhaps isnt in such a good place. As much as I hate NCL, it is very easily accessible from most of the north via road and rail.
I belong to a consortium that was for a little while in discussion with acquiring Air Southwest when they went belly up. I know its a few years ago but I am sure there was talk of Stobart being interested in them so there has to be some kind of plan to acquire an airline - that hasn't just happened overnight.
Alot may depend on if FR take over EI and where that would leave the franchise agreement? Anyone have an idea on that? I would hate to lose EIR!
Anyway I am currently sat in MAN waiting for the ORK bird to arrive nearly 3 hours late....Last nights was cancelled.....Stobart have an uphill battle on their hands if they don't want to invest in something that will damage their reputation. No sign of the free vouchers as per....Menzies are very good at hiding!
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EIR
I think EIR will do well for Stobart, twoimmediate issues ,finance and fresh airplanes , both appear sorted now so we can expect improvements in the operation ,I agree Stobart is no mug and there is a plan
EI have just moved their Chief Pilot over to EIR as COO so we can expect a more robust operation with the new planes and increased fleet size , plus two
EI will not be taken over by FR
EI have just moved their Chief Pilot over to EIR as COO so we can expect a more robust operation with the new planes and increased fleet size , plus two
EI will not be taken over by FR
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I really doubt Stobart have any plan for Aer Arann. It suited them to invest in them during their examinership a couple of years ago because it gave them a vehicle on which to launch their 'new look' Southend airport. Given that Southend now has several other operators using the airport including easyJet, it has served it's purpose.
I think Stobart increasing it's stake is more to do with it recovering it's investment than using it as part of some strategy to increase it's presence in the airline market. Stobart will be investing a lot of money that will be used to allow Aer Arann purchase new ATR 72 aircraft, and this comes with a lot of risk, and taking up their option to increase their stake makes sense as it provides them with greater security in the face of such risk while also allowing them to recoup their investment quicker.
I think Stobart increasing it's stake is more to do with it recovering it's investment than using it as part of some strategy to increase it's presence in the airline market. Stobart will be investing a lot of money that will be used to allow Aer Arann purchase new ATR 72 aircraft, and this comes with a lot of risk, and taking up their option to increase their stake makes sense as it provides them with greater security in the face of such risk while also allowing them to recoup their investment quicker.
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Bigjim99 you mention
What is it that ou dislike about the airport?
As much as I hate NCL, it's very easily accessible by road from much of the North via road and rail
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Aer Arann has no cash flow of its own it relies on Aer Lingus for its Cash so Stobart investment will allow Arann to maybe buy newer Aircraft, which are badly needed if they are to provide the service which Lingus would require from them,lately tech issues and delays are damaging this product.
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From 7 Jan SNN base changes from an ATR72 to 42 (one at WAT) until 30 March. Also means a capacity reduction on NOC service. ATR72 returns at start of summer schedule on 31 March.
Last edited by EI-A330-300; 30th Dec 2012 at 18:20.
Stobarts
I am pretty positive that they fly freight out of Carlisle.
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I'm sure the 42 is coming out of WAT because that's when the base closes. SEN has a 42 based. BHX looking to have a 72 based from June, from where I've no idea.
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This is where re go wrong downsizing routes when it's not justified , it's really going to help pax numbers by putting an old tatty 42 on snn and noc !
The based aircraft at bhx will be an overnight from Dublin from what I make out from the schedule.
The based aircraft at bhx will be an overnight from Dublin from what I make out from the schedule.
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I do agree iwak RE have butchered a few routes, however the 42 is only down for SNN & NOC until March and both routes are struggling a bit pax wise since winter. I'm certain all but EHH have had at least an interior refit with leather seats although I'm sure someone can confirm. I'd watch this space with the BHX based a/c, I think there is more in the pipeline there, whether it will land up a totally EIR route to DUB or something else such as BHD route launch but the flights are listed separately and priced up above the EI flights, which is the usual deterrent when they intend to make changes.