BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The slice of the market EI wanted was BA type customers, prepared to pay higher than say EZY's. It was about consolidation. To be fair, BFS could and possibly have offered such a deal previously, i don't think IAG being owner of both will change much but yes potentially more bargaining power. I can't see any other tangible benefits to such a move really, it would potentially hand business customers over to BE who are already doing nicely.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: belfast
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, they won't move bar BHD really cocking up in the next round of negotiations. Plus it benefited EZY when EI moved and BFS will want to keep a loyal partner happy.
From the talk going on in some places, LHR is becoming too consolidated (BA has too many slots) and we will see big airlines using regional airports more. If this is true, it can only benefit us.
From the talk going on in some places, LHR is becoming too consolidated (BA has too many slots) and we will see big airlines using regional airports more. If this is true, it can only benefit us.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Up There
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EI moving to BHD was nothing to do with these high yield fares - either real or imaginary. They always had a strong relationship with BA, although granted not as openly strong as it is now! EI thought BA would exit Belfast on acquisition of BM and partner with EI allowing them (EI) to monopolise Belfast and Dublin routes to Heathrow. But instead BA invested and stuck at BHD, and re-entered the DUB market!!
Maybe giving WW too much credit here but did he have the takeover of EI in mind in 2012? He may indeed have shared the same burning urge to control EI - like Michael O'L - since he was ousted from it over ten years ago??! Who knows...all irrelevant now.
As for IAG (BA) contemplating a return to BFS, one consideration is in play. (If ever) IAG partners such as AA, QR etc were to seriously look at a developing market in Belfast, BFS at some time downstream would be the only show available to IAG. So, if we give WW credit for having a long eye, don't rule out any strategic thought getting airtime...
Maybe giving WW too much credit here but did he have the takeover of EI in mind in 2012? He may indeed have shared the same burning urge to control EI - like Michael O'L - since he was ousted from it over ten years ago??! Who knows...all irrelevant now.
As for IAG (BA) contemplating a return to BFS, one consideration is in play. (If ever) IAG partners such as AA, QR etc were to seriously look at a developing market in Belfast, BFS at some time downstream would be the only show available to IAG. So, if we give WW credit for having a long eye, don't rule out any strategic thought getting airtime...
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: London, UK & Europe
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA won't move out of BHD to BFS, if they do KLM/AF will jump in and cause trouble for them. KLM doing 80%+ loads would think extra freq will be on the cards at some point in future.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OneBellEnd,
Aer Lingus stated categorically that moving to Belfast City was in line with a strategic move to focus on the business traveller and they saw that BHD fitted better to that. They also felt that they could compete strongly with BA based on their track record and reputation to date in the market. They also had a clear view that Winter routes ex BFS outside of Canaries were marginal, and as a result, elbowing in on BHD LGW they saw as a market they could win. Clearly that went in their favour.
The loads were far from exceptional on BFS LHR and I often got a late enough booking at a good fare, that doesn't tell the tale obviously, few will know the return.
My point in all of this is that BA doesn't need to worry too much about which Belfast Airport is flies too now, nor do any of IAG airlines, nobody now in a position to challenge BA on LHR Belfast. Or any UK domestic ex LHR for that matter.
J636's point about KLM is a valid one, but at most it will only ever be a 2 daily operation and the absence of a 6am take off makes BHD less attractive for KLM for linking up with many intercontinental flights ex AMS.
Aer Lingus stated categorically that moving to Belfast City was in line with a strategic move to focus on the business traveller and they saw that BHD fitted better to that. They also felt that they could compete strongly with BA based on their track record and reputation to date in the market. They also had a clear view that Winter routes ex BFS outside of Canaries were marginal, and as a result, elbowing in on BHD LGW they saw as a market they could win. Clearly that went in their favour.
The loads were far from exceptional on BFS LHR and I often got a late enough booking at a good fare, that doesn't tell the tale obviously, few will know the return.
My point in all of this is that BA doesn't need to worry too much about which Belfast Airport is flies too now, nor do any of IAG airlines, nobody now in a position to challenge BA on LHR Belfast. Or any UK domestic ex LHR for that matter.
J636's point about KLM is a valid one, but at most it will only ever be a 2 daily operation and the absence of a 6am take off makes BHD less attractive for KLM for linking up with many intercontinental flights ex AMS.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Up There
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"EI-BUD" I will defer to your knowledge on Aer Lingus objectives in switching Belfast airports. Perhaps your handle suggests you are closer to that thought process?
However, now that BA hold ALL the Heathrow cards, without any semblance of choice (bmi, Little Red, EI), you are right, they can do what they want without sanction! And, Northern Ireland is a small place. This legend of high yield fares at the city airport is now a secondary consideration to how IAG will develop their general presence in Dublin, and locally in NI where they can get max flexibility to optimise Heathrow slot use and perhaps develop other IAG partner services. After all it's not that long ago that the Belfast - Heathrow route was twice its current size and all services for business and leisure operated on two different airlines - all from BFS.
Your final point about KLM - equally AF, Lufthansa, whoever..it is more important for these airlines to have a 6am wave feeding from a more distant market like Belfast than it is for BA to have a similarly early start into Heathrow. Fact.
Interesting times.
However, now that BA hold ALL the Heathrow cards, without any semblance of choice (bmi, Little Red, EI), you are right, they can do what they want without sanction! And, Northern Ireland is a small place. This legend of high yield fares at the city airport is now a secondary consideration to how IAG will develop their general presence in Dublin, and locally in NI where they can get max flexibility to optimise Heathrow slot use and perhaps develop other IAG partner services. After all it's not that long ago that the Belfast - Heathrow route was twice its current size and all services for business and leisure operated on two different airlines - all from BFS.
Your final point about KLM - equally AF, Lufthansa, whoever..it is more important for these airlines to have a 6am wave feeding from a more distant market like Belfast than it is for BA to have a similarly early start into Heathrow. Fact.
Interesting times.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fairness, KLM could upgrade to 737-700 in the first instance to grow their business before going to x2 daily. I imagine that most of their business is interlining passengers . . . .
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So KLM are not putting an early morning flight on because of the curfew? Where they unaware of this when they were talking to BHD? Do they not realise that there is another airport up the road? And they say 2 airports is great for competition.
BA LHR would have many advantages operating out of BFS. Slots could be used more efficiently. Larger aircraft 767 etc could be used as is the case at GLA, EDI etc. Increase aircraft size reduced rotations etc.
I have to laugh at the thought that BA wouldn't utilise their slots/aircraft on Belfast/LHR because of the fear that KLM will come in and take over at BHD.
Do business men only use BHD? therefore if BA vacated BHD, business in NI would grind to a halt because KLM can't get an early morning slot.
BA LHR would have many advantages operating out of BFS. Slots could be used more efficiently. Larger aircraft 767 etc could be used as is the case at GLA, EDI etc. Increase aircraft size reduced rotations etc.
I have to laugh at the thought that BA wouldn't utilise their slots/aircraft on Belfast/LHR because of the fear that KLM will come in and take over at BHD.
Do business men only use BHD? therefore if BA vacated BHD, business in NI would grind to a halt because KLM can't get an early morning slot.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WestBrit,
This is exactly the point. Without a competitor for LHR route, BA could easily move to BFS and have much greater flexibility than BHD can ever offer, and at a much lower cost, as you point out, later flights, larger aircraft and higher utilisation, more flexibility etc.
However, their strategy of being at BHD has been sound to date, and lets not forget bmi moved their operation originally to BHD as a point of difference to the high level of competition on point to point ex BFS by low costs airlines at that time....
We ought not open up a debate about BFS V BHD as it is at best a futile exercise....
This is exactly the point. Without a competitor for LHR route, BA could easily move to BFS and have much greater flexibility than BHD can ever offer, and at a much lower cost, as you point out, later flights, larger aircraft and higher utilisation, more flexibility etc.
However, their strategy of being at BHD has been sound to date, and lets not forget bmi moved their operation originally to BHD as a point of difference to the high level of competition on point to point ex BFS by low costs airlines at that time....
We ought not open up a debate about BFS V BHD as it is at best a futile exercise....
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I understand KLM wanted a 0615 departure time from Sep but told to go swing so to speak"
So if this was important to them, why pick Bhd? Really amuses me airlines who decide to use Bhd, knowing the rules from the start, then wanting something else. Shows why we need some rules, else these big businesses would just walk all over us. They could have picked 24 hr Bfs and I don't think they would be getting a different passenger from what they are getting now. After all, if you wanted to use KLM, would you decide not to use them because they use Bfs not Bhd and decide to drive to Dublin instead.
TB
So if this was important to them, why pick Bhd? Really amuses me airlines who decide to use Bhd, knowing the rules from the start, then wanting something else. Shows why we need some rules, else these big businesses would just walk all over us. They could have picked 24 hr Bfs and I don't think they would be getting a different passenger from what they are getting now. After all, if you wanted to use KLM, would you decide not to use them because they use Bfs not Bhd and decide to drive to Dublin instead.
TB
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True Blue,
I guess KLM didn't expect BHD AMS to be just as successful as it is, otherwise if their expectations were so high they'd have started it ages ago. I think their choice to use BHD is sound, why? Because they have a point of difference over easyJet in terms of the point to point traveller. Equally, they had the risk that if the route was more point to point, they know what a challenge easyJet can be. LPL AMS is a case in point, a rare occasion where KLM canned a route ....
If the route is a high proportion of connecting passengers, then KLM can feel safe in choosing whichever airport they want, it wont make 1 bit of difference. Moreover, there is no doubt that they got a very highly discounted fees structure from BHD for the 1st and 2nd years etc....
EI-BUD
I guess KLM didn't expect BHD AMS to be just as successful as it is, otherwise if their expectations were so high they'd have started it ages ago. I think their choice to use BHD is sound, why? Because they have a point of difference over easyJet in terms of the point to point traveller. Equally, they had the risk that if the route was more point to point, they know what a challenge easyJet can be. LPL AMS is a case in point, a rare occasion where KLM canned a route ....
If the route is a high proportion of connecting passengers, then KLM can feel safe in choosing whichever airport they want, it wont make 1 bit of difference. Moreover, there is no doubt that they got a very highly discounted fees structure from BHD for the 1st and 2nd years etc....
EI-BUD
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is 'Jet2' and 'Visit Belfast' in Rome promoting Belfast when they haven't got Rome on sale for Summer 2016? Or is Rome and Prague going on sale for Summer 2016 soon? 
Is it to late for a 4th Aircraft to be added?
Is it to late for a 4th Aircraft to be added?