Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Jet2 4

Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:06
  #2141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 6 miles 14
Posts: 641
Doing an Air Austral??
HOODED is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:32
  #2142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
737MAX is probably a safe bet (but which one maybe -9 or 200?) - either that or maybe some new 737NG's, or maybe even a mixed order, for a few 737MAX's and a few more 737NG's. Anyway, time will tell, but of course we can only speculate until then!...
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:45
  #2143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 140
I am sorry, haven't you heard of Jet2holidays.com, who operate collaboratively with Jet2.com (hence the link upon the homepage) and don't offer Flight+Hotel like EZY, but offer whole package holidays, just like Thomson and Thomas Cook, with the ABTA and ATOL protection also.
You seem insistant that EZY don't sell 'whole' package holidays (whatever they are, a package is a package) when they do.
janeyTA is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 21:51
  #2144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle NI
Posts: 824
jet2_738

I don't think anyone is criticising Jet2 excellent safety record or the dedication of their engineers. I fly/have flown many sectors with Jet2 without serious delay or complaint, it's a good company, my point about aircraft age is that other than a lower purchase cost there is absolutely no benefit in running an old fleet, other than you can park them up in winter at less cost, everything else cost more a lot more. No warranty, higher fuel burn and that includes the old NG's entering the fleet, aircraft get heavier with age, they become more drag prone due to rippling, more tech issues, more delays and yes they've had a number of turn back and the 737 Achilles heel depressurisation related issues. You can add to that non standard spec depending on what the original owner ordered.

Non of this matters to the punter unless it delays them of course.

But if you go to court on a defence of 'exceptional circumstance beyond our control' it is only a matter of time before someone asks if buying older aircraft is a factor in reliability ? with the market leaders aiming for an average fleet age of less than 7 years they must have a good reason for doing so, what is the age of Jet2 youngest and oldest airframe out of interest?

It won't stop me flying with them so long as they ate more or less on time and yes their in resort support is excellent
Facelookbovvered is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 22:18
  #2145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
what is the age of Jet2 youngest and oldest airframe out of interest?
The youngest at the moment is 737-8Z9(WL), G-GDFR, at 11.7 years old,
And the oldest bird in the fleet is 737-330(QC), G-CELP, at 28.7 years of age, this meaning from youngest to oldest, a range of 17 years.

I understand that with age come no greater benefit, other than cost of course. But at the end of the day, if they're airworthy, and smart inside, then why not?

it is only a matter of time before someone asks if buying older aircraft is a factor in reliability
And Jet2 have a recovery method in these sort of cases - spare aircraft parked up. This strategy serves them well, especially as most of the destinations are no more than 4-5 hours away. It means that if an aircraft goes tech down route, Jet2 have a plan B, something a lot of airlines can't accommodate. Another benefit is that the parked aircraft are dotted around the EU, so not only do they have spares in the UK, they also have a spare I believe down in ALC, which can often mean faster dispatch to the Canary Islands. I think it is only a 733, but even so, that could be dispatched and pick the passengers up with a 2 hour delay, drop them in ALC, and straight onto a recovery aircraft from LBA in the UK. So instead of waiting 4.5/5 hours for a spare to arrive, you are on one in 2 hours.
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 00:36
  #2146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36
Posts: 701
My intention was not to criticise LS but rather draw attention to the fact that fair comparisons be made.

However I'm fully converted. Jet2 are amazing and can do no wrong. How silly of me to even dare think otherwise. They're an example for us all to aspire to.

It's still odd how one person can compare LS to other airlines to prove their agenda yet others who use the same airlines to compare another statistic are lambasted. Just saying. It's those who militantly support and defend certain airlines, types or manufacturers that make this site unbearable. It's a shame as it was once good. I'd hazard a guess at saying just 1% here are professional pilots. And it really shows!

PS all the bold and underlined text really does my crust in. Is there any need?

Last edited by fa2fi; 27th Feb 2015 at 07:55.
fa2fi is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 14:12
  #2147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
The bold and underlined text is purely for emphasis, so I deem there to be a need.

hazard a guess at saying just 1% here are professional pilots.
So would that include you? - How does anyone know?

Jet2 are amazing and can do no wrong.
Is this sarcastic? Maybe some bold text would allow us to more clearly visualize your intentions.

And yes, I do prefer Boeing to Airbus for a number of reasons, and you may prefer airbus - it is essentially a matter of opinion. I do admire the way Jet2 operate, and I do not wish to put other airlines down, in order to 'suit my own agenda'. I have been on EZY a few times, and they're alright - rather like a well-oiled bus service, quick on, quick off. I admire the way LS operate, simply as their business covers a broad range of the market, and could tailor to suit everyone's needs. EZY's business, is short haul, intercity hops, this is similar with FR, and it clearly does them well. Jet2 can accommodate as a LCC on similar short city routes, but has the advantage of the package holiday side of the business, and of course the advantage of the seasonal flights to the USA.

Last edited by Jet2_738; 27th Feb 2015 at 17:46.
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 14:19
  #2148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oh Cavey
Posts: 266
Jet2_738

You mention that Jet2 have aircraft dotted around europe just waiting to be used... I know you mention ALC but where would the other places be and are there standby crew ready to operate them at a moments notice?
Captain_Caveman is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 15:00
  #2149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 3,738
Who/what is `LS`...?
sycamore is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 16:03
  #2150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,106
LS is the IATA code for Jet2. (And EXS is the ICAO code for Jet2).
Shed-on-a-Pole is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 17:43
  #2151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Tyne and Wear
Posts: 172
I beleive that at least G-CELG is ALC now, and in the summer, there is often another down there. ALC is an ideal base, 2 hours from the UK, 2 hours from the farthest destinations. I believe that Jet2 have their own crew down in ALC, though I am not sure, but this is likely as they have their own baggage handlers, passenger service assistants, and sales team down there
Jet2_738 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 18:28
  #2152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: far too low
Posts: 231
Jet2 4

Nothing to do with ALC giving them some money to do so.

And let's be honest the SBY is not some form of altruistic vision to satisfy the customers. It is a business decision to protect the business against eu261 costs. The business weighed one cost versus the other and considered sby a/c as the most cost effective way to cover this. It was either that or pay up every time an a/c was delayed more than 3 hours (which certainly happens whether this is more than other airlines I can speculate but I don't have all the facts to compare it to)

Whether the sby can be maintained when it appears (as is the rumour that I am being told by my former colleagues, yes I used to be a pilot at jet2 until a little while ago) on average one pilot is handing in his/her notice every day is yet to be seen. That outflow appears like it will continue for a while yet. There are also very good reasons for that and it's not because people are desperate to move away from their home base.

Edited to add: whilst there is nothing wrong with old aircraft per se and I had no issue with jet2 engineers, older a/c do get odd faults that are extremely hard to trace. That means several aircraft I flew in my time there sometimes had very spurious but recurring faults that would sometimes ground an a/c for a very long time only for the fault to resolve itself. Eventually after a couple of repeats could the fault be traced to some worn out part. Not unusual (certainly not extraordinary) and I would be quite certain less likely to happen on a newer aircraft. Yes old aircraft can fly around quite happily, but there comes a point when an old fleet becomes prohibitively expensive. In my opinion the time when an airline could play of boeing vs Airbus to get a dirt cheap deal is not now and whilst a fleet renewal is becoming more vital, it is also going to be significantly more expensive than it would have been in the past.

Last edited by gorter; 27th Feb 2015 at 19:50.
gorter is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 19:37
  #2153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 114
It makes sense for Jet2 to have a back up aircraft in ALC - LS are number 2 in the UK-Alicante market with a 20.9% frequency share. I know in 2013 they had an operational base with 2 a/c.
NewquayJacob is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 20:04
  #2154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by Facelookbovvered
my point about aircraft age is that other than a lower purchase cost there is absolutely no benefit in running an old fleet, other than you can park them up in winter at less cost, everything else cost more a lot more. No warranty, higher fuel burn and that includes the old NG's entering the fleet, aircraft get heavier with age, they become more drag prone due to rippling, more tech issues, more delays and yes they've had a number of turn back and the 737 Achilles heel depressurisation related issues. You can add to that non standard spec depending on what the original owner ordered.
Lower capital costs are a huge advantage. You're right, you can't work the fleet as hard as if it was factory fresh, but clearly jet2 have done their sums and, for them, having the flexibility to park up part of the fleet works. For example a 2012 738 is estimated to lease at $375,000 a month - a 2000 build at around 210,000, a 737-300 somewhere around $60,000 a month. You'd have to burn a lot of fuel to make up $300k a month ($3.6 million annually). So, while you can't work the fleet as hard and need more operational spares, you have the flexibility to adjust to the market demands.

Does anyone really care wither the aircraft they are flying on was built in 2013 or 1983? Does it make any difference? New aircraft have technical problems too.
brian_dromey is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 20:16
  #2155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: far too low
Posts: 231
Originally Posted by brian_dromey View Post
New aircraft have technical problems too.
Not as many and certainly not as complicated/confusing

Oh and for the spotters out there when I left the big announcement was going to be whether the company were going to order new Airbus or new Boeing. The executive director was supposedly seen in Seattle and Airbus were seen plodding around euroway trading estate several times with tape measures.
gorter is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 20:53
  #2156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 182
Angry

Spot on Gorter! In-excess of 40 pilots have resigned/left this company since the end of Summer 2014, and more are to follow. Despite the "spin" from HR, recruitment is not going to plan! This isn't a career airline, and is quite some years off, if ever without a senior management change...it's not a happy place to be!

Jet2_738, whilst appreciating your just an enthusiast, this airline is one of the worst in the UK for a number of very important reasons as an Airliner World reader you just wouldn't understand! And your old aircraft theory is nonsense - I was in the same room when the CEO declared "I know these aircraft are costing us money and something needs to be done..."

If new aircraft are indeed been bought, I'd be scared as to where the pound foolish culture will strike next, as this company doesn't have that sort of financial reserves.
Sean Dillon is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 00:19
  #2157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Originally Posted by gorter View Post
Not as many and certainly not as complicated/confusing
As much as there have been many generalisations in the last few posts I'd be willing to stake my not insignificant pension on me proving you wrong.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 02:09
  #2158 (permalink)  
Alba Gu Brath
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Merseyside
Age: 52
Posts: 704
Good work Sean Dillon. Exceeding even your own best efforts by being wrong twice in one paragraph. But hey, don't be letting facts get in the way of a good story.
Big Tudor is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 06:35
  #2159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,492
being humiliated by having to pay a charter airline to pick up the pieces
Classic! what on earth does this mean?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2015, 07:42
  #2160 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Secret Agent!



Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,547
Thumbs down

Surely, having aircraft that you own parked up, is a good thing
And that is the biggest load of tosh I've ever read!
JB007 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.