SOUTHAMPTON
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe I jumped the gun a little then, although I think it managed SOU-AGP direct during the winter, but temperature and higher loads probably don't help matters. Of course if the new owners got to work on the starter strip referred to in the master plan and also mentioned in the press up more recently then this would most likely not be an issue.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybe W15
Flybe have done a 'partial release' of their winter schedule today. So far SOU is a mixture of 'same old' and also a little disappointing, although final judgements will be reserved until the full schedule is out.
Currently the sun routes appear to finish at the end of October, although it is worth noting that CWL-FAO appears to be operating over the winter, so this would suggest that there will still be E195's available.
Amsterdam/Dublin don't appear to be getting any extra flights over the winter, as they have in the last couple of years. Given the limited frequencies on both routes at BOH I very much doubt that has affected numbers much. Both remain at ~3 daily.
Belfast City has been reduced from ~3 daily to ~2.
As for ski routes so far we have Chambery 3 weekly (2x Sat 1 Sun) and Geneva 4 weekly (2x Sat 2x Sun). No sign of Grenoble of Salzburg as of yet.
Leeds appears to be dropped (again!).
Paris is down to just ~2 daily as well as it has been this summer, which is disappointing when you consider that 5 years ago when the economy was in a far worse state there were 5 daily flights to Paris (3 daily Air France ATR42 to Orly and 2 daily Flybe Q400 to CDG).
Currently the sun routes appear to finish at the end of October, although it is worth noting that CWL-FAO appears to be operating over the winter, so this would suggest that there will still be E195's available.
Amsterdam/Dublin don't appear to be getting any extra flights over the winter, as they have in the last couple of years. Given the limited frequencies on both routes at BOH I very much doubt that has affected numbers much. Both remain at ~3 daily.
Belfast City has been reduced from ~3 daily to ~2.
As for ski routes so far we have Chambery 3 weekly (2x Sat 1 Sun) and Geneva 4 weekly (2x Sat 2x Sun). No sign of Grenoble of Salzburg as of yet.
Leeds appears to be dropped (again!).
Paris is down to just ~2 daily as well as it has been this summer, which is disappointing when you consider that 5 years ago when the economy was in a far worse state there were 5 daily flights to Paris (3 daily Air France ATR42 to Orly and 2 daily Flybe Q400 to CDG).
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A further disappointment with Flybe's current winter schedule is that the regional french routes (Limoges, Nantes, Bergerac, Rennes, La Rochelle) are only operating over the Xmas/New Year period currently so they have all effectively become seasonal routes, despite most being operated year round for many years previously.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair point, but just from going off how many years the routes have been operated over the winter I would have assumed that they at least were able to make a little money or break even.
If the schedule does not change once Flybe do a full release then SOU will lose a large number of routes this winter, most of which have been around for quite a long time. It shows the disadvantages of an airport being so dependant on a single airline. Currently we will have lost (compared to last winter, frequencies are approximate);
Alicante - 2 weekly
Bergerac - 3 weekly
Grenoble - 1 weekly
Guernsey - 8 weekly
La Rochelle - 2 weekly
Limoges - 3 weekly
Malaga - 2 weekly
Nantes - 4 weekly
Rennes - 4 weekly
Salzburg - 1 weekly
With frequency reductions elsewhere and the loss of the based E195 it looks to be a quiet winter.
If the schedule does not change once Flybe do a full release then SOU will lose a large number of routes this winter, most of which have been around for quite a long time. It shows the disadvantages of an airport being so dependant on a single airline. Currently we will have lost (compared to last winter, frequencies are approximate);
Alicante - 2 weekly
Bergerac - 3 weekly
Grenoble - 1 weekly
Guernsey - 8 weekly
La Rochelle - 2 weekly
Limoges - 3 weekly
Malaga - 2 weekly
Nantes - 4 weekly
Rennes - 4 weekly
Salzburg - 1 weekly
With frequency reductions elsewhere and the loss of the based E195 it looks to be a quiet winter.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 44
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And yet SOU has been experiencing strong growth over the last year or so. Especially over the last few months. Unlike the various dud airports, that rub along with their aldi airlines, BE must be getting theatall important yield at SOU. I fly with them regularly and tickets are always fairly expensive. The French routes are not really about leisure, more the 2nd home market. The south of England is the most affluent so you get the idea why these routes seem to have worked year round.
I have mentioned previously on the BE thread that the new management's attitude towards the cornerstones of their business is quite astounding. Without SOU, BHX and EXT there would be no BE and I suspect if you took them out of their route network today BE wouldn't last a year. Yet some bright spark is obviously flogging the idea that making deals with desperate airports (that are deserted for a reason) and flogging dirt cheap seats is the winning formula. Sure this works for the big boys with their scale and larger aircraft but with BE and their regional sized equipment? It's all starting to sound very familiar, BMI Baby anyone?
I have mentioned previously on the BE thread that the new management's attitude towards the cornerstones of their business is quite astounding. Without SOU, BHX and EXT there would be no BE and I suspect if you took them out of their route network today BE wouldn't last a year. Yet some bright spark is obviously flogging the idea that making deals with desperate airports (that are deserted for a reason) and flogging dirt cheap seats is the winning formula. Sure this works for the big boys with their scale and larger aircraft but with BE and their regional sized equipment? It's all starting to sound very familiar, BMI Baby anyone?
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flights out of the "deserted" airports only make up 3% of Flybe's route network. What is more astounding is how the average line pilot or ground handler that frequents these boards actually come across as though they know how to run an airline better than anyone. It's all rather dull now, infact it's become even more dull than the "flymaybe" tag, and that's saying something.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rivet Joint - we get it, you have an irrational hatred for a certain airport ~30 miles from SOU, your constant bashing on here has become dull and repetitive. I would say the generally good loads reported on here and fact that Flybe have continued all of the domestic/city routes with little change in frequency over the winter suggests that BOH is working for them.
The thing with Flybe over the winter is many of the city routes have been reduced in frequency compared to last winter despite the growth they have seen in recent months. Lets hope the full release of the winter schedule brings some better news for SOU.
As an aside, does anybody know if VLM are continuing over the winter? On their website if you search for a return journey the outbound flights are available but the inbound ones are all blank showing 'no available seats'.
The thing with Flybe over the winter is many of the city routes have been reduced in frequency compared to last winter despite the growth they have seen in recent months. Lets hope the full release of the winter schedule brings some better news for SOU.
As an aside, does anybody know if VLM are continuing over the winter? On their website if you search for a return journey the outbound flights are available but the inbound ones are all blank showing 'no available seats'.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 44
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deano: This is a forum, such a thing wouldn't exist if people didn't give their own personal opinion on matters.
Adfly: I do not have a hatred of BOH. My annoyance comes from the fact I rely on BE at SOU heavily and after all these years of solidifying a great base they are deciding to stick a thorn in their own side and operate a marginal base that is kept afloat because Manchester airport group did a deal with them. I find it odd that you live in Southampton yet appear to wish for BOH to succeed? Incidentally, my previous post wasn't solely aimed at BOH, reports that BE have signed a 10 year deal to operate at CWL is further evidence of their short sighted strategy. The second the financial incentives dry up, these airports will be back to being seasonal operations.
Adfly: I do not have a hatred of BOH. My annoyance comes from the fact I rely on BE at SOU heavily and after all these years of solidifying a great base they are deciding to stick a thorn in their own side and operate a marginal base that is kept afloat because Manchester airport group did a deal with them. I find it odd that you live in Southampton yet appear to wish for BOH to succeed? Incidentally, my previous post wasn't solely aimed at BOH, reports that BE have signed a 10 year deal to operate at CWL is further evidence of their short sighted strategy. The second the financial incentives dry up, these airports will be back to being seasonal operations.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deano: This is a forum, such a thing wouldn't exist if people didn't give their own personal opinion on matters.
Adfly: I do not have a hatred of BOH. My annoyance comes from the fact I rely on BE at SOU heavily and after all these years of solidifying a great base they are deciding to stick a thorn in their own side and operate a marginal base that is kept afloat because Manchester airport group did a deal with them. I find it odd that you live in Southampton yet appear to wish for BOH to succeed? Incidentally, my previous post wasn't solely aimed at BOH, reports that BE have signed a 10 year deal to operate at CWL is further evidence of their short sighted strategy. The second the financial incentives dry up, these airports will be back to being seasonal operations.
Adfly: I do not have a hatred of BOH. My annoyance comes from the fact I rely on BE at SOU heavily and after all these years of solidifying a great base they are deciding to stick a thorn in their own side and operate a marginal base that is kept afloat because Manchester airport group did a deal with them. I find it odd that you live in Southampton yet appear to wish for BOH to succeed? Incidentally, my previous post wasn't solely aimed at BOH, reports that BE have signed a 10 year deal to operate at CWL is further evidence of their short sighted strategy. The second the financial incentives dry up, these airports will be back to being seasonal operations.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's right adfly, and again, Rivet, those two bases account for only 3% of their route network, and what's wrong with doing deals with airports? Ryanair have been doing it for years. If the deals mean that it mitigates the lack of numbers on seats then where's the risk? I'm pretty sure our management team have crunched the numbers and done the maths before signing on the dotted line. From what I can see the routes out of both airports are not suffering from a lack of numbers so far.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 44
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Adfly: I agree with you that if BOH had the transport links it could trump SOU as the bigger base and if SOU had more stands then BOH would probably lose out. However, a couple of new stands is more attainable both financially and logistically. The routes brought in at BOH by BE are pretty much exactly the same as the ones they already operate from SOU.
Deano: I'm sure you are right but it's an indication of where the new management are pitching the business. In my opinion BE exist as a result of bringing in the q400 and building a safe and dependable route network at a few key strategically placed airports (EXT, SOU, BHX, MAN, NCL, GLA, EDI). I appreciate things change but BE cannot play EZY/FR at their own game especially with embraers and q400s surely? It might get them the quick buck but I just hope long term they don't ignore the backbone of their business. My broadband package was great for the first 6 months until the discount stopped!
Deano: I'm sure you are right but it's an indication of where the new management are pitching the business. In my opinion BE exist as a result of bringing in the q400 and building a safe and dependable route network at a few key strategically placed airports (EXT, SOU, BHX, MAN, NCL, GLA, EDI). I appreciate things change but BE cannot play EZY/FR at their own game especially with embraers and q400s surely? It might get them the quick buck but I just hope long term they don't ignore the backbone of their business. My broadband package was great for the first 6 months until the discount stopped!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rivet Joint
It's not really an indication at all, the new management's strategies haven't changed. It's a two armed strategy of white label flying and regional connectivity, not only point to point but to the world. Look at how many code shares Flybe have now. This is an indication that they are trying to connect the regions to the world without having to touch LHR. The UK market is largely saturated on the trunk routes and the only way to make it work is to fly smaller aircraft with higher frequencies to give the customers choice. What about the 195s at CWL I hear you ask, firstly the 195s are a costly mistake undertaken by the previous management and the deal isn't aircraft specific, it was a 10 year deal to fly routes from CWL. The 195s are proving difficult to offload so why not mitigate the losses on them by flying them? That's exactly what they are doing. I have to be careful with sensitive information being posted on here so I'll stop there because I don't know what's in the public domain and what isn't, but my humble opinion is that you will see a few more regional airports utilised that are currently under served in the future, and if they can achieve this by offloading some of the risks & associated costs then why not?. In doing all this they are just serving their core business, it's positive, not negative. You could possibly buy a ticket to fly from NQY to Sydney, that's got to be a good thing, surely?
It's not really an indication at all, the new management's strategies haven't changed. It's a two armed strategy of white label flying and regional connectivity, not only point to point but to the world. Look at how many code shares Flybe have now. This is an indication that they are trying to connect the regions to the world without having to touch LHR. The UK market is largely saturated on the trunk routes and the only way to make it work is to fly smaller aircraft with higher frequencies to give the customers choice. What about the 195s at CWL I hear you ask, firstly the 195s are a costly mistake undertaken by the previous management and the deal isn't aircraft specific, it was a 10 year deal to fly routes from CWL. The 195s are proving difficult to offload so why not mitigate the losses on them by flying them? That's exactly what they are doing. I have to be careful with sensitive information being posted on here so I'll stop there because I don't know what's in the public domain and what isn't, but my humble opinion is that you will see a few more regional airports utilised that are currently under served in the future, and if they can achieve this by offloading some of the risks & associated costs then why not?. In doing all this they are just serving their core business, it's positive, not negative. You could possibly buy a ticket to fly from NQY to Sydney, that's got to be a good thing, surely?
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the latest feeling down there on Flybe's SOU-GCI? Has it indeed ended or is it just a late release of flights from Flybe? Wouldn't mind a trip to Guernsey at half term but getting to SOU and then using Blue Islands is pushing my budget a little...
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May 15
Passengers down 7.5%, quite a change from the fairly strong growth seen in earlier months this year, any plausible explanations for this?
Sadly the figures for VLM are pretty abysmal if correct, 34 for Antwerp and a further 175 for Hamburg. Unless this improve significantly in the next few months I fear VLM's second visit to SOU will be a short one.
Sadly the figures for VLM are pretty abysmal if correct, 34 for Antwerp and a further 175 for Hamburg. Unless this improve significantly in the next few months I fear VLM's second visit to SOU will be a short one.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South
Age: 44
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Adfly: I do not wish to be insulting but are you slow in the head? Try this for a plausible explanation, SOU's main client opening a base at a neighbouring airport because they quite fancied some cheaper fees at MAN. Does that help you at all? Essentially, every single customer That used BE at BOH would have used SOU. I make that a net loss of 11,179 and it's only going to get worse.
One of these airports is going to lose out eventually unless BE are stupid enough to run them side by side until they both marginalise one another.
If I was the owner of SOU (whoever they are) I would be arranging for those new stands to the north east of the runway to be created ASAP. Then I would be calling the orange lot and making them a deal they couldn't refuse. Of course SOU's new owners are some hedge fund who are just looking to park some money. Not even so much as a new bar of soap in the toilets should be expected. I shouldn't care and just fly from Gatwick but it's a crying shame how much potential SOU has. Being the cruise capital of Northern Europe alone is enough to appeal to any airline.
One of these airports is going to lose out eventually unless BE are stupid enough to run them side by side until they both marginalise one another.
If I was the owner of SOU (whoever they are) I would be arranging for those new stands to the north east of the runway to be created ASAP. Then I would be calling the orange lot and making them a deal they couldn't refuse. Of course SOU's new owners are some hedge fund who are just looking to park some money. Not even so much as a new bar of soap in the toilets should be expected. I shouldn't care and just fly from Gatwick but it's a crying shame how much potential SOU has. Being the cruise capital of Northern Europe alone is enough to appeal to any airline.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not slow in the head at all, just prefer not to jump to conclusions. I very much doubt nearly 'every single' person flying from BOH would otherwise had gone from SOU, many in its catchment would probably find BRS or EXT a convenient alternative. Also worth noting many of the decreases were on routes not served from BOH too so that could not be the only source.
The latter half of your post I do agree with, if SOU is to broaden its appeal then the airfield needs to be invested in very soon. A starter strip, perpendicular taxiway to the runway from the stand 13/14 area and the already mentioned additional stands would make the airport so much more appealing to many airlines.
I hope now the airport is no longer owned by BAA some of this may actually materialise, and you only need to look at LGW (also 'owned' by various wealth/hedge funds etc.) to see the difference an independent owner can make. While Flybe are an asset to SOU and have been for many years I would like to think that the owners will recognise that with a strong local catchment and good links to London, SOU would be able to handle more than one carrier having a 'significant' operation.
As for bulldozing Eastleigh, well I can think of a few places I'd miss more...
The latter half of your post I do agree with, if SOU is to broaden its appeal then the airfield needs to be invested in very soon. A starter strip, perpendicular taxiway to the runway from the stand 13/14 area and the already mentioned additional stands would make the airport so much more appealing to many airlines.
I hope now the airport is no longer owned by BAA some of this may actually materialise, and you only need to look at LGW (also 'owned' by various wealth/hedge funds etc.) to see the difference an independent owner can make. While Flybe are an asset to SOU and have been for many years I would like to think that the owners will recognise that with a strong local catchment and good links to London, SOU would be able to handle more than one carrier having a 'significant' operation.
As for bulldozing Eastleigh, well I can think of a few places I'd miss more...