BIRMINGHAM - 5
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Les, Gayfriendly,all,
Its a very important issues as without one BHX cannot handle 747/MD-11 freighters as it has done in the past,(Tower Air,Kalitta,Polar Air,World,Gemini, MAS,Lufthansa) etc.
Can you also confirm that BHX now have a loader that can get up to and unload a 747 freighter, as BHX confirmed to me they didn't have one last year.
I heard recently they were going to buy one but no one will confirm if they now have one.
However I am told they have recently marked out a 747/MD-11 stand Elmdon side which if true suggests they will need one.
Nigel
Its a very important issues as without one BHX cannot handle 747/MD-11 freighters as it has done in the past,(Tower Air,Kalitta,Polar Air,World,Gemini, MAS,Lufthansa) etc.
Can you also confirm that BHX now have a loader that can get up to and unload a 747 freighter, as BHX confirmed to me they didn't have one last year.
I heard recently they were going to buy one but no one will confirm if they now have one.
However I am told they have recently marked out a 747/MD-11 stand Elmdon side which if true suggests they will need one.
Nigel
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Munich
fjencl
Not heard anything and although there would be a cost saving on the night-stopping crews it would be a hefty increase in the number of seats.
BHX is currently 2 x 116-seat 195's and 1 x 86 seat CRJ900. The A319 is
max 138 seats I believe with the new slim seats and that is probably a bit excessive for BHX at present.
Frankfurt was slightly different as the A320 was helped by flybe pulling their flights although this was after the BMI A320 arriving.
Munich did briefly go 3 x 195 and the load factor remained constant at about 75% but it didn't last. Whether this was due to poor yields or aircraft availability I don't know.
Pete
Not heard anything and although there would be a cost saving on the night-stopping crews it would be a hefty increase in the number of seats.
BHX is currently 2 x 116-seat 195's and 1 x 86 seat CRJ900. The A319 is
max 138 seats I believe with the new slim seats and that is probably a bit excessive for BHX at present.
Frankfurt was slightly different as the A320 was helped by flybe pulling their flights although this was after the BMI A320 arriving.
Munich did briefly go 3 x 195 and the load factor remained constant at about 75% but it didn't last. Whether this was due to poor yields or aircraft availability I don't know.
Pete
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Re OP's Stats
I think its time to start watching the economic "Weather Vanes" for the West Midlands and the catchment area as a whole. Re the comments regarding MUC, (OP's figures are as always; are very enlightening). the numbers for this route seem at first glance; to be increasing.
LH like any company; will try to maximize its profits, so If they can operate a route successfully, with an EMB195 x 2 and a CRJ900, they will do just that. I suspect that they, like all the major airlines; will be utilizing "Yield management" analysis techniques to "fit" the number of seats available to the estimated future demand.
I bet the same applies for any other route. So until we get industrial economic growth in the West Midlands, the passenger figures will remain static.
Specific routes will always be subject to competitive pressures caused by what happens at the major centers' like Manchester and the London airports.
The demand for leisure destinations is very competitive and price sensitive with lots of options available from MAN,EMA,LUT and BRS. The management of the airport have historically attempted to attract business from the legacy airline companies, with a smattering of Lo Co's
Where are the routes to Central Europe ? or services to Madrid or Barcelona for onward connections to S.America. (Instinct suggests a 2 x daily with an early morning arrival/departure and an evening flight for overnight long haul/ returning passengers )
So if the decline in passenger numbers at airports like Birmingham is to be arrested, it will be by schemes like the prospective Chinese engine assembly/development center in Wolverhampton to generate both incoming and outbound traffic (No pun intended).
I'm no economist, but the decline in activity at BHX and elsewhere; is intrinsically linked to economic activity in the respective catchment areas.
So for the mid term (5 - 10 Years), the best thing that can happen is the coming of Airliners like the A320 NEO, the equivalent B73 and the EMB, for secondary airports providing links to the major European centers of activity.
Forget fantasies about long haul services, runway extensions etc.
CAT III
LH like any company; will try to maximize its profits, so If they can operate a route successfully, with an EMB195 x 2 and a CRJ900, they will do just that. I suspect that they, like all the major airlines; will be utilizing "Yield management" analysis techniques to "fit" the number of seats available to the estimated future demand.
I bet the same applies for any other route. So until we get industrial economic growth in the West Midlands, the passenger figures will remain static.
Specific routes will always be subject to competitive pressures caused by what happens at the major centers' like Manchester and the London airports.
The demand for leisure destinations is very competitive and price sensitive with lots of options available from MAN,EMA,LUT and BRS. The management of the airport have historically attempted to attract business from the legacy airline companies, with a smattering of Lo Co's
Where are the routes to Central Europe ? or services to Madrid or Barcelona for onward connections to S.America. (Instinct suggests a 2 x daily with an early morning arrival/departure and an evening flight for overnight long haul/ returning passengers )
So if the decline in passenger numbers at airports like Birmingham is to be arrested, it will be by schemes like the prospective Chinese engine assembly/development center in Wolverhampton to generate both incoming and outbound traffic (No pun intended).
I'm no economist, but the decline in activity at BHX and elsewhere; is intrinsically linked to economic activity in the respective catchment areas.
So for the mid term (5 - 10 Years), the best thing that can happen is the coming of Airliners like the A320 NEO, the equivalent B73 and the EMB, for secondary airports providing links to the major European centers of activity.
Forget fantasies about long haul services, runway extensions etc.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 21st Oct 2011 at 10:58. Reason: grammer and spelling.
CATIII-NDB
What a superbly written and argued piece! I believe you are spot on with regard to the catalyst for growth at BHX - namely real jobs being created in a real (as opposed to public sector driven) economy.
Presently those that did particularly well in the last few years (the public sector) are suffering with job insecurity and no one with any sense fritters money on short breaks and holidays whilst they don't have job security.
On the other hand the business services, driven by the private sector, and what remains of Midlands manufacturing are driving up passengers on the main non leisure routes.
The local "hate figure" Paul Kehoe seems to be doing a good job for his shareholders, which is after all his remit, though he's clearly not pleasing the local enthusiast community, nor many of those who work for the airport company. This clearly proves you can please "some of the people some of the time" but not "all of the people all of the time"!
What a superbly written and argued piece! I believe you are spot on with regard to the catalyst for growth at BHX - namely real jobs being created in a real (as opposed to public sector driven) economy.
Presently those that did particularly well in the last few years (the public sector) are suffering with job insecurity and no one with any sense fritters money on short breaks and holidays whilst they don't have job security.
On the other hand the business services, driven by the private sector, and what remains of Midlands manufacturing are driving up passengers on the main non leisure routes.
The local "hate figure" Paul Kehoe seems to be doing a good job for his shareholders, which is after all his remit, though he's clearly not pleasing the local enthusiast community, nor many of those who work for the airport company. This clearly proves you can please "some of the people some of the time" but not "all of the people all of the time"!
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Routes/passengers
CATIII-NDB
I agree in principle although long-haul might be fantasy, the runway extension will be reality by the look of it, like it or not or extra traffic or not. Apparently compulsory purchase orders are out for two local businesses.
ATNotts
I would imagine the local councils are glad of any kind of dividend but I wouldn't like to second-guess about Ontario Teachers.
PK has instigated staff cuts, charges for baggage trolleys and revamped the car parking on the back of the Glasgow incident, which produced the goods in last year's accounts but also is the reason for the flak. On the positive side the terminal is reasonable and the new Control Tower started.
If this forms a good foundation for the future then who can argue and it is early days although sometimes I think the airport PR could be better such as the Armavia farce and this latest serious article about technology with the associations to Disney etc
Birmingham Airport strives to offer passengers Disney-style experience
Pete
I agree in principle although long-haul might be fantasy, the runway extension will be reality by the look of it, like it or not or extra traffic or not. Apparently compulsory purchase orders are out for two local businesses.
ATNotts
I would imagine the local councils are glad of any kind of dividend but I wouldn't like to second-guess about Ontario Teachers.
PK has instigated staff cuts, charges for baggage trolleys and revamped the car parking on the back of the Glasgow incident, which produced the goods in last year's accounts but also is the reason for the flak. On the positive side the terminal is reasonable and the new Control Tower started.
If this forms a good foundation for the future then who can argue and it is early days although sometimes I think the airport PR could be better such as the Armavia farce and this latest serious article about technology with the associations to Disney etc
Birmingham Airport strives to offer passengers Disney-style experience
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 21st Oct 2011 at 20:04. Reason: order of words
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Growth for BHX
Some good arguments but one thing has not been mentioned and I believe this was from Mr K himself. More BHX catchment area passengers fly from other airports that any other, 60% was mentioned. Claw some of those customers back and BHX will grow even in the economic downturn.
One are the local enthusiasts are correct about if you don’t have the major routes you don’t get the customers.
Centre cities
One are the local enthusiasts are correct about if you don’t have the major routes you don’t get the customers.
Centre cities
Last edited by Centre cities; 22nd Oct 2011 at 09:49. Reason: spelling
Claw some of those customers back and BHX will grow even in the economic downturn.
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Crewmeal.
I never said that it would be easy (no link to the airline intended) but there are lots of local passengers going elsewhere even when there are options from BHX.
Centre cities
I never said that it would be easy (no link to the airline intended) but there are lots of local passengers going elsewhere even when there are options from BHX.
Centre cities
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BHX runway too short for fully laden 767-thread.
Tripadvisor replies to enquiry as why flight to Cancun refuels at Manchester.
Air Travel Forum: Birmingham uk to cancum Thomson airlines - TripAdvisor
Air Travel Forum: Birmingham uk to cancum Thomson airlines - TripAdvisor
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Munich
I was on the 0705 MUC on Saturday and it was completely full in Y (I got an op-up as a result!). The return 1535 yesterday only had 48 pax. That Sunday afternoon flight is usually very busy. I don't see any commercial sense in upping capacity unless there are 320s (and crews) doing nothing following any sale of BMI.
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TCX summer 2012
Noticed that summer 2012 will see Kos going twice-weekly operating Monday now aswell as Thursday. Not exactly the most exciting announcement I know but at least it's a positive one.
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Thomas Cook
chinapattern
Also Mahon has finally gone back to twice weekly with a Monday service,
which I think operates from another base.
Kos is in place of the second Corfu, which replaced a SSH this summer.
The Tuesday Tenerife remains which was a replacement this year for Hurghada.
Another change is the Thursday HER shifting to Friday to replace a DLM and the Thursday slot seems to be taken with a second ACE.
Pete
Also Mahon has finally gone back to twice weekly with a Monday service,
which I think operates from another base.
Kos is in place of the second Corfu, which replaced a SSH this summer.
The Tuesday Tenerife remains which was a replacement this year for Hurghada.
Another change is the Thursday HER shifting to Friday to replace a DLM and the Thursday slot seems to be taken with a second ACE.
Pete
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ssflyer - this weird about the BHX-CUN flight refuelling at MAN.
I went out on this flight on 23rd August and it was direct BHX-CUN with about 95%+ load.
I did some checking up on this flight and it hadn't completed a fuel stop in a considerable amount of time and further conversations with a TOM FO (in CUN departure lounge prior to the return journey) suggested the diversion was no longer required since the installation of the winglets on the 763's - can we assume this was weather related (i.e - extra fuel due to weather enroute or over the pond etc?)
Alex.
I went out on this flight on 23rd August and it was direct BHX-CUN with about 95%+ load.
I did some checking up on this flight and it hadn't completed a fuel stop in a considerable amount of time and further conversations with a TOM FO (in CUN departure lounge prior to the return journey
) suggested the diversion was no longer required since the installation of the winglets on the 763's - can we assume this was weather related (i.e - extra fuel due to weather enroute or over the pond etc?)Alex.
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Xanda Man. Hope this helps-
BHX runway is shorter than MAN. The longer the runway the more weight and distance can be flown. ( BHX runway extension begins next year so this will not be an issue soon )
I know of 3 seperate reasons why 'sometimes' the CUN flight goes via MAN-
1 - Crew utilisation. Depending on crewing patterns the flight sometimes is crewed by MAN crew and will be tied in with 2 and 3 below.
2 - Weight. This flight is on a such fine margin with weight verses BHXs runway length. If the flight is roughly 95% full OR LESS, little or no cargo, and weather predictions on route are pretty standard then it can operate non stop to CUN with or without winglets. However with winglets does offer a 5% advantage in regards to fuel burn.
3 - Cargo. If a significant amount of cargo is booked for this flight it is loaded at MAN. As MAN runway is longer than BHX this flight can operate fully laden no problem.
As a pax on this flight, going non stop is perfect as once I went via MAN and I was onbourd for 14.5hrs! When in MAN pax are kept on board whilst cargo and fuel are loaded and crew changed. This was a very long day and too long for young families IMHO. Return flight to BHX was a breeze at 9.5hrs.
Like I said, when BHX runway extension is completed these issues will be solved for good. About time too!
BHX runway is shorter than MAN. The longer the runway the more weight and distance can be flown. ( BHX runway extension begins next year so this will not be an issue soon )
I know of 3 seperate reasons why 'sometimes' the CUN flight goes via MAN-
1 - Crew utilisation. Depending on crewing patterns the flight sometimes is crewed by MAN crew and will be tied in with 2 and 3 below.
2 - Weight. This flight is on a such fine margin with weight verses BHXs runway length. If the flight is roughly 95% full OR LESS, little or no cargo, and weather predictions on route are pretty standard then it can operate non stop to CUN with or without winglets. However with winglets does offer a 5% advantage in regards to fuel burn.
3 - Cargo. If a significant amount of cargo is booked for this flight it is loaded at MAN. As MAN runway is longer than BHX this flight can operate fully laden no problem.
As a pax on this flight, going non stop is perfect as once I went via MAN and I was onbourd for 14.5hrs! When in MAN pax are kept on board whilst cargo and fuel are loaded and crew changed. This was a very long day and too long for young families IMHO. Return flight to BHX was a breeze at 9.5hrs.
Like I said, when BHX runway extension is completed these issues will be solved for good. About time too!
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The flight goes direct now because the load is restricted to approx 250. The refuelling stop in MAN was due to taking 283 or more and the weather being against the flight, worst case the wind being too strong for 33 but too light to get the weight off 15. As they couldn't guarantee going direct every week it was scheduled for the stop in MAN.
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Cancun
A pretty compelling case to get one of Thomson's first few 787's
(see Doncaster & Manchester threads) especially as BHX has one
of the shortest runways compared to Thomson's other long-haul bases
Pete
(see Doncaster & Manchester threads) especially as BHX has one
of the shortest runways compared to Thomson's other long-haul bases
Pete
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I'm hoping that with the arrival of the 787's Thomson will re-introduce some long haul services from BHX like Punta Cana/La Romana, either with the new aircraft or with some freed up 767's. Are Thomson definatley getting there 787's by February?