Aer Lingus - 6
I think seeing as the share price jumped to a near 5 year (4 year, 9 months) high following the announcement, I'm guessing most share holders are going to be pretty happy about the development.
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What you mean those who bought at €2.20 in September 2006 will be happy that their investment is now worth 73% of what they paid for it............this after watching management blow €600 million not counting the bases set up.
The only person that isn't happy about the share price going up is MOL as he knows that this means that Aer Lingus are doing things right and aren't screwing things up, because if they were screwing things up, then share price would be going down, not up.
No, indeed they're not, but in this individual case I think that this is a good outcome for both the shareholders and employees.
60% of the funds raised at the IPO have been blown away with nothing in return.
How is this good for shareholders ?
Share price is less than 75% of its float price.
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So you think that share holders would be happier if last weeks annoncement wasn't made and share prices didn't go up? Explain to me, how the shareholders aren't happy, that in the last 9 months stare price has risen 73%?
Also, it's not nothing in return, they're averting a strike, you know, because they need workers to work in order to make a profit, so that's the thing they're getting in return for it.
Also, it's not nothing in return, they're averting a strike, you know, because they need workers to work in order to make a profit, so that's the thing they're getting in return for it.
Last edited by Aerlingus231; 4th Jun 2013 at 18:52.
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How is this good for shareholders ?
So you think that share holders would be happier if last weeks annoncement wasn't made and share prices didn't go up? Explain to me, how the shareholders aren't happy, that in the last 9 months stare price has risen 73%?
Also, it's not nothing in return, they're averting a strike, you know, because they need workers to work in order to make a profit, so that's the thing they're getting in return for it.
Employees already paid for their employment.
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Employees already paid for their employment.
Do you think the shareholders would be happy with the airline losing money and reputation due to a strike? What planet are you living on?
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The way I look at it is this. I'm paying my workers to do a job for me. If circumstances change I might have to reduce their pay and change some work practices to economise. I may even have to let some go. It happens all the time in real life businesses small and large. If they go on strike and refuse to do the job I pay them to do then I'll have to sack them and find someone else who will.
Further, if I have already contributed more than once, out of the goodness of my heart, to another fund for which I have no liability and they come along a while later with, "Please, Sir, I want some more" or they'll strike I'll just tell them to sod off. I certainly won't be handing them an envelope with a Hundred Grand in it.
Further, if I have already contributed more than once, out of the goodness of my heart, to another fund for which I have no liability and they come along a while later with, "Please, Sir, I want some more" or they'll strike I'll just tell them to sod off. I certainly won't be handing them an envelope with a Hundred Grand in it.
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If they go on strike and refuse to do the job I pay them to do then I'll have to sack them and find someone else who will.
Share holders stocks will be worth nothing if the company doesn't exist.
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@Aerlingus321
If it comes to it, of course you can and it's been done before. Ronald Reagan sacked thousands of air traffic controllers when they went on strike in the early 90s. And if unions come back in a few years looking for more money and resort to strike action, that's exactly what should happen to them.
If it comes to it, of course you can and it's been done before. Ronald Reagan sacked thousands of air traffic controllers when they went on strike in the early 90s. And if unions come back in a few years looking for more money and resort to strike action, that's exactly what should happen to them.
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Do we really want to end up in that situation though, an airline sacking thousands of staff due to a strike? The disruption and damage to reputation would already be done with weeks of bad press following the strike.
I don't like the idea of Aer Lingus handing over that amount of money but the alternative would have potentially much worse consequences for the airline. The share price has responded well to the deal, there's been little noise from other share holders and the unions remain quiet so the only fuss is coming from Ryanair. Are we surprised? No.
Anyway, with all that out of the way hopefully we'll hear of some long haul schedules soon. The 757 deal and A330 deployment should be soon, there's been plenty of rumours so it'll be interesting to see the official plan once it's announced. Got to be some time this month?
I don't like the idea of Aer Lingus handing over that amount of money but the alternative would have potentially much worse consequences for the airline. The share price has responded well to the deal, there's been little noise from other share holders and the unions remain quiet so the only fuss is coming from Ryanair. Are we surprised? No.
Anyway, with all that out of the way hopefully we'll hear of some long haul schedules soon. The 757 deal and A330 deployment should be soon, there's been plenty of rumours so it'll be interesting to see the official plan once it's announced. Got to be some time this month?
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Difference being, the FAA had 'unlimited funds', it didn't need to make a profit. Aer Lingus will not legally be allowed operate in both this country and others if it's staff are not qualified.
Problem is, when the majority of your staff go on strike you can't just sack them all, paricularly ones such as the engineers at Aer Lingus where Aerospace Engineers are already in extremely high demand, you'll have lost them to other companies with in no time, and it'll take years to train in new ones, as with cabin crew you're talking about upwards of 10 weeks to train them, much longer in fact, as you'll no longer have the people who are trained to train them on your pay-roll. So in practice, that doesn't work. No airline can survive for 3-4 years without operating flights while they train in new staff.
An airline with a fleet the size of EI could dismiss all its staff and be flying again with 14 days maximum using contract staff brought in from everywhere at what ever cost is necessary.
Politically it would never happen in Ireland but never assume management would not go for the nuclear option........................that one has been proven by many Unions to be a bluff called and actioned.
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So you reckon that an airline couldn't find Pilots, Engineers, Cabin Crew quickly ?
Secondly, no I don't think all the engineers could be replaced in 14 days, there's a massive global shortage of rated Aircraft engineers. It's next to impossible to get one at the minute, never mind an entire team of over 200 of them. And then to train them up and get them registered with the IAA? Not a snowballs chance in hell could that happen in 14 days. Even if you manage to poach an entire team of engineers from another airline, it's gonna take a number of months, and it's going to cost you so much, you may as well just close the doors to begin with. Also bear in mind Garda clearence takes about 6-7 weeks to come through, if you've got 3000 people waiting to get cleared, it's going to take the best part of a year.
Cabin Crew could be replaced quickly enough, but 14 days is too soon, they'd also need to be trained in doing it Aer Lingus's way.
And how exactly does Aer Lingus find all these people when their entire office staff has been fired? Is the board of directors going to go through and find 3000 suitably qualified people themselves? Who'll set up all the records and payment processes for these new staff. Who'll show them how to use the custom designed systems that Aer Lingus use?
While on paper you might be able to say it's an option, long story short, firing all staff is not an option for Aer Lingus.
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Ayro, 'when you pay your workers to do a job' but isn't that the point. Part of their contact was a pension. They knew they'd never die rich but they bargained that against the secure pension option. So for all those years when they dragged themselves out of bed at ungodly hours or worked through kids birthdays and anniversaries the deal was " you do this, and we'll mind your future". Stock markets fell, property crashed and a hole appeared in the plan. The company doesn't get to walk away Scott free any more than they get their lost weekends back, and that my young fella is what happens in the real world. And belt up with to your envelopes of a hundred grand, do you know how much an office worker, baggage handler makes? Real world indeed... They could teach you a thing or two. And can we all stop playing poor old racedo's game, he's been wrong so many times its painful, fire everyone, real world lads, grown up conversations.
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No problem with the above but why did EI state in their prospectus that they had no further liability? If they always anticipated some form of contribution should that not have been disclosed? They also said last year they would not make a contribution. What has changed? The staff were always going to strike.
Will the DAA contribute now I wonder.
Will the DAA contribute now I wonder.