Aer Lingus - 6

[curser]

Is a good point and a cautionary tale for all, never allow yourself to be part of an untruth for the sake of expediency. Stems from Willie's time I think. Seem to remember we were presented with a very good series of reasons for going along with publicly Willie's story of "target benifit" pension. If recollection serves it was a "without prejudice" sort of tacit consent because on this occasion our objectives aligned and it suited our cause to keep shtumm. Roll on a few years and he's fired for an alleged conflict of interest and then on to bigger things and we are left with the toxic fallout. A clearly chartered defined benifit pension, and a rather nieve market place who didn't perform due diligence and an outstanding management team who are/were creating a viable solution while running in my view the finest small European airline, supported by an accommodating but understandably wary staff. Big Bucks, big pressure game now heading for conclusion. What could stop them now, certainly not mol with his company of despair.

[ayroplain]

I don't like the idea of Aer Lingus handing over that amount of money but the alternative would have potentially much worse consequences for the airline.

Sounds like blackmail to me.

...and the unions remain quiet so the only fuss is coming from Ryanair. Are we surprised? No.

Of course the unions remain quiet. They appear to have got away with murder, oops, blackmail and can't believe their luck. You must also remember who is on the EI Board!! Are we surprised? No. The only shareholder who has the courage to speak out against it, as far as we know, is FR.

[Sober Lark]

A colossal funding deficit in the Superannuation Scheme has Aer Lingus trying to shore it up with a €150 million plan and bottom dollar such an action would be open to legal challenge by Ryanair or the unmentionable one. So Aer Lingus appears to have to face up to the cost of a legal challenge or protracted industrial action. To that mix you'll also find Shareholder satisfaction will be as transient as a short spell of fine weather in an Irish summer.

[Aerlingus231]

Share price up another 3 cent today, highest it's been since May 2008. Someone explain to me again why the shareholders aren't happy?

[LAX_LHR]

As noted on their own threads, MAN/BHX schedules for the winter are out.

MAN goes 6 daily (5 daily on Saturdays), with Aer Lingus A320's operating 4 of the flights, and Regional ATR72 on the other 2 flights.

Overall MAN goes to 41 weekly.

BHX remains at 6 daily, with the Saturday nightstopper not operating. Aer Lingus A320's on 3 flights, Regional ATR72 on the other 3.

Overall 41 weekly.

[racedo]

Is a good point and a cautionary tale for all, never allow yourself to be part of an untruth for the sake of expediency. Stems from Willie's time I think. Seem to remember we were presented with a very good series of reasons for going along with publicly Willie's story of "target benifit" pension. If recollection serves it was a "without prejudice" sort of tacit consent because on this occasion our objectives aligned and it suited our cause to keep shtumm. Roll on a few years and he's fired for an alleged conflict of interest and then on to bigger things and we are left with the toxic fallout. A clearly chartered defined benifit pension, and a rather nieve market place who didn't perform due diligence and an outstanding management team who are/were creating a viable solution while running in my view the finest small European airline, supported by an accommodating but understandably wary staff. Big Bucks, big pressure game now heading for conclusion. What could stop them now, certainly not mol with his company of despair.

Management stating that there was no further liability would be classified as a statement of fact which would only have been made with legal advice.

Shareholders who bought in the original offer have a right to rely on facts used in the Offer documents..................

The fact that management wish to conduct something different doesn't preclude shareholders from suing and claiming compensation for what was in offer, they are at a financial loss, it is their money that is being used.

[racedo]

Cabin Crew could be replaced quickly enough, but 14 days is too soon, they'd also need to be trained in doing it Aer Lingus's way.

And how exactly does Aer Lingus find all these people when their entire office staff has been fired? Is the board of directors going to go through and find 3000 suitably qualified people themselves? Who'll set up all the records and payment processes for these new staff. Who'll show them how to use the custom designed systems that Aer Lingus use?

While on paper you might be able to say it's an option, long story short, firing all staff is not an option for Aer Lingus.

Everything is an option no matter how unlikely...................in EI case I have a better chance of winning Euromillions than it occurring but happened with Irish Ferry did it not ?

History is littered with examples of people believing management wouldn't do the unthinkable...................National Union of Mineworkers though that, Ferenka workers in Ireland, as mentioned Reagan with Air Traffic control, Hostess brands with Twinkies..................there are more

Everybody assummes that everything would be the same in the event a company sacked everybody and rehired their replacements..............history tends to show that it never is because new people do things differently (not necessarily always better just differently). Companies always have disaster plans for recovery just in this case they bring them in.

[Epsomdog]

Racedo

You can't seriously believe it feasible to sack all of an airlines staff and re- hire within 2 weeks! That's got to be a tongue in cheek statement surely?

[racedo]

You can't seriously believe it feasible to sack all of an airlines staff and re- hire within 2 weeks! That's got to be a tongue in cheek statement surely?

Depends what you hiring and how much you paying................and may not need to sack all.

I posted what is the nuclear option for management of an airline (any airline or business) and you will always find people willing to do it............enough cash you will find people.

Not sure any Airline in Europe would do this because they would get blocked at airports.

[curser]

Don't feed it, placate it! They could they really really could racecourse or they could burn all the aircraft or what else.... They could enter into a corporate suicide pack in protest. But kiddo none of these things will happen. The passengers continue to book and travel with Ei as they have the superior product and motivated staff who genuinely care about people and by extension the company. The company will continue its organic growth. As to cash and people, such innocence, when young minds grapple with the world these are the premise they construct in order to make sense of the world they are faced with. Later as adults the complexity of the human condition becomes manifest, it's a humbling period of self growth but rewarding, you're gonna love it racedo! Nottin but love for you baby. Always good for a laugh " yeah Let's fire everybody wooo! And then let's go and play on the swings!"

[ayroplain]

motivated staff who genuinely care about people and by extension the company

I always have a good laugh when someone trots out this nonsense. You must not have been around when these "motivated staff" were walking off the job and leaving thousands of their customers stranded, or when EI were forced to hire in aircraft from FR and others to keep a threadbare schedule going plus all the times when their threats of strike right up to the day left more thousands of their "cared-about" people under severe stress. Get real.

[Aerlingus231]

May Traffic Stats

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media...s_May_2013.pdf

Traffic stats out for May; Regional, Shorthaul and Longhaul all up.

Regional up 2.3%, 13.4% for year to date.
Shorthaul up 3.9%, down 0.2% for year to date
Longhaul up 20.2%, up 11.3% for year to date.

Total excluding Regional up 5.6%, up 0.8% for year to date.
Total including regional up 5.3%, up 2.0%for year to date.

Average load-factor up to 79.3%, an increase of 3.6%

Great results all around it looks like, particularly on long haul, 20.2% growth!!!

[curser]

Great set of results indeed. Ayro you vastly over overstate your case and well you know it, not even worth disproving. High pressure game played for huge stakes, resolution of which has allowed for future growth and the realization of share holder value while continuing to afford Ireland reliable (in every sense of the word) access to the wider world. I think you misunderstand the difference between motivated/dedicated staff and servile staff. Frankly I hope fr management continue in their ignorance, as it's that difference that gives Ei it's commercial edge. Such vitriol ayro, what can have caused such ill feeling? Is it as you previously asserted, that money buys people? Or are you unselfishly motivated? In Which case you I'm surprised at your lack of empathy for the Ei staff position. Just postulating, your motivations are your own but you don't ring true.

[ayroplain]

but you don't ring true

I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I am not influenced by what is posted here by fanboys of any airline or rubbish published in the Daily Mail et al.

I make my points based solely and entirely on my own personal experiences over years of flying - more than 50 return flights a year. I used to fly a lot with EI but the very absence of what you claim their staff to be was what influenced me to finally abandon them coupled with so many personal experiences of flights not being on time (a MUST for me) and what I perceived to be disinterested staff. If you fly as often with them and have had better times good luck to you but I will not sit idly by while people claim that EI is, somehow "better", when, in my considerable experience, it is anything but.

[curser]

Succinctly put, and with your level of custom I'm sure you're missed. Clearly you had a bad experience but and have chosen to travel with one of their competitors. I wish you happy trails but you must realise you are in the minority. Ei market share is growing and their business is based on repeat custom so clearly they must be doing something right which does not justify letting you down but does put it in context. Do you also stalk the chat rooms of your other discretionary spends, are you for example activity participating in the great BMW/Merc debate, has your dish washer let you down and do you put those zanussi people in order on line or is it just Ei. A couple of delayed flights, a poor service experience and you seem to have lost all perspective. We have used them repeatedly over the last few years, while I had no vested interest and we haven't been let down... We must just be lucky... Hope it holds.

[Schipholhand]

As I look at the present composition of legacy (or former 'main') carriers in Europe, it saddens me to remember BOAC, British European, British caledonian,KLM, Air France, SAS, Swissair, Sabena, Lufthansa, Austrian, Luxair, Alitalia, TAP,Finnair, Iberia and Aer lingus, who pioneered the development of air travel in times when flying was an expensive novelty for the customers. How many of the are left, in non-hybrid corporate configuration??. Certainly not British Airways, Air France, KLM, Iberia etc., who are really part of some kind of crossover development, bending backwards to satisfy shareholders ( banks??) and trying to hoodwink the customers into thinking that rationalisation is really for the customers' own good. Perhaps the competition to survive, as an entity, has kept Aer lingus, Lufthansa and Finnair on their toes, with the Ryanair's of this world growling at their heels....maybe I'm wrong

[BEagle]

Well, despite O'Leary's comment that 'fewer than 1% of people in the UK fly with Aer Lingus', I had an excellent trip from Birmingham to Dublin and back with them a couple of months ago. Friendly, professional service at a good price.

Had they been swallowed up by another Irish airline, I'd have had to fly either from LHR or perhaps Oxford, because I will never, ever fly with Ryanair. Long may Aer Lingus prosper!!

[Skipness One Echo]

How many of the are left, in non-hybrid corporate configuration??. Certainly not British Airways, Air France, KLM, Iberia etc., who are really part of some kind of crossover development, bending backwards to satisfy shareholders ( banks??) and trying to hoodwink the customers into thinking that rationalisation is really for the customers' own good.

Given I would be paying 8-9 times the price to fly at BOAC levels of service, well done those rationalised, shareholding pleasing corporate entities. Hate to be the one to tell you this but British Airways most certainly does exist and they're doing a better job than BOAC ever did on almost any level I can think of.

Really.

Also Aer Lingus don't need a weeks wages to fly me to Dublin in order to er....still lose money somehow when they did that (!) I'd rather have a choice and pick and choose between them, which I currently do, than be forced to fly one or t'other.

[EI-A330-300]

The Government have put off the sale of their 25% stake for the foreseeable future.

[ayroplain]

According to today's Irish Independent the 'motivated and caring' staff (as described here recently) have again voted for industrial action. Pilots' turn this time.