Aer Lingus - 6

[Mlinnie]

Ryanair Takeover

I fail to see any positives following this proposed takeover by Ryanair. But in the case of BA taking over BMI this was a good move as BMI were a struggling loss making airline but in the case of the Ryanair takeover Aer Lingus... Are a profitable airline who are hugely important to the economy.

[FRatSTN]

But Ryanair are much bigger and more profitable than Aer Lingus and have much more potential for significant growth.

[j636]

But Ryanair are much bigger and more profitable than Aer Lingus and have much more potential for significant growth.

That may be correct but Aer Lingus can compete with FR much better than most carriers and they have pushed them off routes from Dublin.

FR have potential for growth but no major aircraft order what will happen in 12 months?

[Aerlingus231]

But Ryanair are much bigger and more profitable than Aer Lingus and have much more potential for significant growth.

As far as I know, Aer Lingus are more profitable per passenger than Ryanair, meaning that if both carried the same number of passengers, Aer Lingus would have the greater profit. So to say that Ryanair is more profitable is twisting the truth slightly as they are a much bigger airline so of course they'll have a greater profit.

The fact is, is that Aer Lingus is a brand that is only known in Ireland and that is its target market. It doesn't need or want to serve foreign markets like Ryanair does. It knows this market quite well and has been the only airline that was sucessfully able to compete with Ryanair. Ryanair are great at what they do, so great that we all know they would take advantage of a 90% hold on all travel off an island. You can say they'll let in competition, but just look back a couple of years ago at what happened with eazyJet and what is happening now in ORK with Wizz, you'd be a fool to think the same wouldn't happen again.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by AerLingus321

As far as I know, Aer Lingus are more profitable per passenger than Ryanair, meaning that if both carried the same number of passengers, Aer Lingus would have the greater profit. So to say that Ryanair is more profitable is twisting the truth slightly as they are a much bigger airline so of course they'll have a greater profit.

The level of bullsh*t posted on this forum really has no bounds.

You're twisting the truth yourself with this bollix statement that Aer Lingus is more profitable than Ryanair because they make more money per passenger. The fact is Aer Lingus posted an operating loss of €17.6m last year, while Ryanair posted an after tax profit of €400m. Revenue per passenger means nothing when you're losing money after costs.

Originally Posted by Aerlingus231

The fact is, is that Aer Lingus is a brand that is only known in Ireland and that is its target market. It doesn't need or want to serve foreign markets like Ryanair does.

Of course it does, what an ignorant statement to make. Up to recently Aer Lingus had bases in Gatwick and Washington. So they very clearly are interested in pursuing foreign markets. Even foreign bases aside, they would still market their Ireland routes in the countries they serve from here, so they have to take an interest in foreign markets. To ignore any opportunities abroad is to go against all business logic.

Originally Posted by Aerlingus231

You can say they'll let in competition, but just look back a couple of years ago at what happened with eazyJet and what is happening now in ORK with Wizz, you'd be a fool to think the same wouldn't happen again.

If you'd check your facts, you'd find that it was Wizz Air who started a price war with Ryanair, and even head-hunted some of their management in order to do so.

[Aerlingus231]

You're twisting the truth yourself with this bollix statement that Aer Lingus is more profitable than Ryanair because they make more money per passenger. The fact is Aer Lingus posted an operating loss of €17.6m last year, while Ryanair posted an after tax profit of €400m. Revenue per passenger means nothing when you're losing money after costs.

Operating profit of €49.1 Million for 2011
Aer Lingus posts pre-tax profit €84m - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 28, 2012

In not twisting the figures, I'm simply using a different method of presenting them as comparing the profit of an airline that carries 9.5 million passengers a year to that of an airline that carries over 76 million is obviously going to put things out of proportion.

Of course it does, what an ignorant statement to make. Up to recently Aer Lingus had bases in Gatwick and Washington. So they very clearly are interested in pursuing foreign markets.

Firstly, the base in Washington was not really an Aerlingus base, but only one in name. The reason that was done was to occupy a long haul aircraft due to the lack of demand for long haul routes out of Ireland at the time, and was marketed as a United Airlines operation and not an Aer Lingus one. The Gatwick base was just one of Dermot Mannions mad hatter ideas to stroke his ego that went clearly wrong. They never should have opened that base IMO, even with the large Irish diaspora in London it struggled for years to get off the ground.

[Skipness One Echo]

To ignore any opportunities abroad is to go against all business logic.

Any "reasonable" opportunity. LGW was Fortress Orange with Monarch, Thomson and BA where EI brought nothing new to the party. Washington wasn't Aer Lingus at all as AerLingus231 states. Indeed the last long haul foray to Dubai didn't last either, long haul remains a relatively niche operation, which is fine so long as it stays in the black.

Aer Lingus is seens as Ireland's airline and trades succesfully as such. The record of these kind of airlines in other foreign markets is poor. Look at Air France on LHR-LAX or Lufthansa in Milan as Lufthansa Italia.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by Aerlingus321

Operating profit of €49.1 Million for 2011
Aer Lingus posts pre-tax profit €84m - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 28, 2012

My mistake, still doesn't detract from the point that operating/net/gross profits are the only figures that matter.

Originally Posted by Aerlingus321

Firstly, the base in Washington was not really an Aerlingus base, but only one in name. The reason that was done was to occupy a long haul aircraft due to the lack of demand for long haul routes out of Ireland at the time, and was marketed as a United Airlines operation and not an Aer Lingus one. The Gatwick base was just one of Dermot Mannions mad hatter ideas to stroke his ego that went clearly wrong. They never should have opened that base IMO, even with the large Irish diaspora in London it struggled for years to get off the ground.

The IAD base was still a base and could have been part of a wider transatlantic Joint Venture, and whether or not they should've opened a base at LGW is irrelevant, the fact is they did it. And how do you explain Aer Lingus applying for the domestic UK slots at Heathrow? I suppose that doesn't count either?

And again why shouldn't Aer Lingus be pursuing opportunities abroad? They'd be stupid not to.

[Aerlingus231]

And how do you explain Aer Lingus applying for the domestic UK slots at Heathrow? I suppose that doesn't count either?

Very simply, get the slots, try it for 6 months, make a loss, say it isn't a viable route, and then use those slots for their core market - Ireland.

[ryan2000]

Ryanair talking to foreign carriers about competing with them on routes that Aerlingus are now on reminds me of the saying "Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly". These carriers have far less brand recognition in Ireland than Aerlingus and are simply not equipped to compete with Ryanair on a sustainable basis. If Ryanair lower fares and/or increase frequencies which they are perfectly entitled to do these carriers will quickly withdraw from the Irish market and we'll be back to the defacto monopoly which existed at Irish airports up to the mid 1980's.

The only serious competition to Ryanair will be the Cross Channel Ferries!

[GAZMO]

Have to agree

No airline will touch these routes
As previously posted if they do arrive FR after a few months will copy routes, cheap fares, lost making and drive the competition away

We have seen it before

[floss689]

Varadkar sceptical on Ryanair proposals - The Irish Times - Fri, Oct 12, 2012

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Anybody have any idea if we can expect a new route or two from EI next summer. They tend to add a few most summers.

[Mlinnie]

Hopefully they will add a few. I'd love to see them reinstate Sofia would there be demand for it ? Would be great to see Helsinki and Athens continued throughout Winter. Menorca maybe ?? Maybe some new EIR routes like Inverness, Dundee, Carlisle & Newquay from Dublin. Maybe a few European city routes from BHD ?

[EI-A330-300]

Ryanair offer aircraft and crew to EI if industrial action goes ahead over the next few weeks. I do agree with FR/EI's position on this as its not the airlines fault whats after happening.

Ryanair offers to aid Aer Lingus | Irish Examiner

[racedo]

Poor old Racedo is bravely ploughing a lonely furrow for Ryanair on here. His position lacks a certain consistency however. Surely given his belief in the obvious superiority of ryanair, it'd be better for the nation if indeed the popular vision of the outcome of a successful bid did come to pass and ryanair did remove EI from the field.
Over to you racedo, do tell us why you deny FR would shut EI in jig time when you obviously believe that the travelling public would benefit enormously from being offered no choice other than FR? You might also like to explain to us why micko, the former arch-disciple of competition, now feels the Irish public would benefit from a monopoly?

Given your premis is that Ryanair would close down Aer Lingus is false from the start then why bother with the rest of the diatribe.

[CallBell]

FR offer aircraft & crew

Ryanair offer aircraft and crew to EI if industrial action goes ahead over the next few weeks. I do agree with FR/EI's position on this as its not the airlines fault whats after happening.

Ryanair offers to aid Aer Lingus | Irish Examiner

What use is the offer of crew and aircraft if its not the flight deck and cabin crew in EI that are on strike? This is just another publicity stunt by FR. Unless they are trying to find use for the aircraft they ground each winter?

[racedo]

What use is the offer of crew and aircraft if its not the flight deck and cabin crew in EI that are on strike? This is just another publicity stunt by FR.

Nope because EI Management are under no illusions about whether cabin crew /pilots and others may pass the pickets.

Having an alternate irrespective of whether its used or not reduces potential impact and cost of strike.

[KNT544]

The last EI from BFS

[Skipness One Echo]

Given your premis is that Ryanair would close down Aer Lingus is false

Not "unlikely to be true" but in your words "false". Good Heavens above, it's almost as if you state this with some form of insider knowledge. Jings, crivvens and help ma boab racedo it's giving some people the mad impression you're on the payroll. Who WOULD have thought such a thing?