Aer Lingus - 6
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He will also expand out of Ireland as IAG pull off "sun" routes enabling MOL to jack up the prices. In return he agrees to sell and also pull back on primary airports in competition with IAG. It's a win/win for everyone except the consumer and the poor mugs in ground ops/back office that will be in the dole office or emigrating.
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"so it's irrelevant what BA wants, it's what IAG want"
and who is the main player in IAG??
If you think the two entities are separate you are crazy - BA is THE major constituent of IAG and it's importance overrides all else
and who is the main player in IAG??
If you think the two entities are separate you are crazy - BA is THE major constituent of IAG and it's importance overrides all else
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Aer Lingus - 6
Think what you like, but if that was the case, IAG would be operating unethically, and should be subject to investigation!
IAG should be working on behalf of their shareholders to drive profit, and NOT on behalf of one of the airlines within the group, to the detriment of the others!
IAG should be working on behalf of their shareholders to drive profit, and NOT on behalf of one of the airlines within the group, to the detriment of the others!
Killing frequency on UK domestic routes is potentially counter productive bearing in mimd they need to remain frequent to be competitive on point to point. Given BA are focussing on improving profitability on short haul and given the Shuttle runs do quite well, I don't see a lot of scope for change in terms of cutting back.
What knocks them is the share of the revenue of the connecting passengers which is attributed to the domestic sector. This is entirely down to the management decision of what proportion of the total fare paid by the passenger is attributed. I understand that in some cases it is as low as £1, all the rest of the revenue being attributed to the long-haul.
It was an even worse problem for BMI, and one of the key things that led to their sustained unprofitability, all the Star Alliance connecting passengers where the long-haul share was actually going to a different company.
Qatar Airways? They are the biggest shareholder....
tom1975 is correct. IAG are a company listed on the London Stock Exchange. It's directors have to act in the best interests of IAG shareholders rather than any particular operation within IAG. The tail isn't allowed to wag the dog.....
tom1975 is correct. IAG are a company listed on the London Stock Exchange. It's directors have to act in the best interests of IAG shareholders rather than any particular operation within IAG. The tail isn't allowed to wag the dog.....
Join Date: May 2012
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Iberia and Vueling are currently expanding capacity at more than twice the rate of BA and Iberia is using LGW and LHR slots to launch new services.
Additionally, IAG is demanding BA improve the financial performance of short-haul. Otherwise, investment in short-haul aircraft will go elsewhere.
BA does not pull the strings at IAG.
Additionally, IAG is demanding BA improve the financial performance of short-haul. Otherwise, investment in short-haul aircraft will go elsewhere.
BA does not pull the strings at IAG.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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The BA model is to maximise UK transatlantic travel though LHR
which is why they have never put any serious effort into developing transatlantic services from Manchester, Birmingham or EDI
They aren't going to encourage people to go via DUB
#No they are not, but most UK airports don’t have links to LHR, so it‘s a choice between DUB and AMS. Ownership of EI allows IAG to grab a share of this.
More and more people are viewing EI/DUB as a good alternative to BA/LHR.
which is why they have never put any serious effort into developing transatlantic services from Manchester, Birmingham or EDI
They aren't going to encourage people to go via DUB
#No they are not, but most UK airports don’t have links to LHR, so it‘s a choice between DUB and AMS. Ownership of EI allows IAG to grab a share of this.
More and more people are viewing EI/DUB as a good alternative to BA/LHR.
If they (IAG/BA) 'own' EI, and many people currently DO avoid LHR (for a number of good reasons) and they (BA/EI/IAG) could, probably would gain business via DUB , Transatlantic, which they would otherwise not get !
They , IAG/BA , would then gain add revenue/profit which otherwise would go to another carrier.e.g. AF/KL/LH etc.
They , IAG/BA , would then gain add revenue/profit which otherwise would go to another carrier.e.g. AF/KL/LH etc.
Think BA will deffo use some of their current Heathrow slots for Belfast & Dublin for more lucrative long haul destinations on bagging the extra EI slots.
I have been scratching my head for ages trying to work out why BA \ IAG want Aer Lingus for and what will they do with them?
My guess is they have identified 2 moves (apart from the usual synergies... sorry for the business speak) They will split \ separate \ divide some of their US destinations from LHR and offer connections through DUB, offering pre-clearance, quicker transit & after all you are closer to the US from DUB. The inter UK flights could free up slots to serve the "emerging markets \ more profitable" destinations.
Put A320 or A321 on DUB \ BFS routes to soak up pax and free a few more slots.
If someone from MAN \ BRS \ EDI \ GLA etc can hop to DUB & on to the US why would you want to go via LHR?
Does the lack\reduced rate of APD from DUB play any part in this? I don't know.
My guess is they have identified 2 moves (apart from the usual synergies... sorry for the business speak) They will split \ separate \ divide some of their US destinations from LHR and offer connections through DUB, offering pre-clearance, quicker transit & after all you are closer to the US from DUB. The inter UK flights could free up slots to serve the "emerging markets \ more profitable" destinations.
Put A320 or A321 on DUB \ BFS routes to soak up pax and free a few more slots.
If someone from MAN \ BRS \ EDI \ GLA etc can hop to DUB & on to the US why would you want to go via LHR?
Does the lack\reduced rate of APD from DUB play any part in this? I don't know.
Join Date: Oct 2010
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One other possible reason: maybe IAG don’t want another group buying EI and possibly asset stripping it in much the same way that LH did to BD (before 2009, BD had 14% of LHR slots, in 2012, 8%).
I'm a fan of this logic. IAG buying EI is a defensive move in my opinion. They keep the UK Regional/Irish pax revenue in the group AND prevent anyone else making inroads into the UK market or increase their presence at LHR.
I'm a fan of this logic. IAG buying EI is a defensive move in my opinion. They keep the UK Regional/Irish pax revenue in the group AND prevent anyone else making inroads into the UK market or increase their presence at LHR.
I see on the Heathrow thread that SAS have sold a slot pair for $60 million dollars.....meaning EI's 23 pairs, if released to the market on a phased basis to keep the price high, would be worth $1.38 billion, only slightly below what IAG have offered. If I was MOL I'd try and squeeze a few more cents out of them 
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But do recognise that that US$60M figure is seen as well above the estimated value. This could be a very well timed arrival/departure pair. The 'normal' estimate is approx US$35m per slot pair.
I would lke to see EI offer European connections in general, considering synergestic connectivity was one of the reasons it won the PSO/the PSO was renewed in the first place.
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IAG to outline plans next week:
Develop Dublin as a hub by adding new routes with AA to their eight hubs in the US while cargo growth will be a major area of growth and increase capacity out of Dublin accross the board. DUB will operate just like LHR and MAD.
They are also planning to neet opposiation parties to take the political meddling out of the equation.
Untill the LHR guarntee is extended to 15-20 years I cannont see any movement.
Develop Dublin as a hub by adding new routes with AA to their eight hubs in the US while cargo growth will be a major area of growth and increase capacity out of Dublin accross the board. DUB will operate just like LHR and MAD.
They are also planning to neet opposiation parties to take the political meddling out of the equation.
Untill the LHR guarntee is extended to 15-20 years I cannont see any movement.
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I hope you are aware that it is a 4 hour journey to Donegal from Dublin. I don't know about you but the propsect of that after a sleepless night tossing and turning does not sound particularly endearing.
I like the idea of the AA hub route thing. They will have 4 destinations this summer, I think they should upgrade their aircraft interiors though. And if they are really serious about the transatlantic hub hopefully we hear about more daytime flights.
I like the idea of the AA hub route thing. They will have 4 destinations this summer, I think they should upgrade their aircraft interiors though. And if they are really serious about the transatlantic hub hopefully we hear about more daytime flights.
Last edited by owenc; 7th Feb 2015 at 19:22.
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I don't know about you but the propsect of that after a sleepless night tossing and turning does not sound particularly endearing.
I'm sure chuboy is aware of the drive time from Dublin to Donegal. Yet again you don't seem to realise that some people can sleep on night flights and that they don't mind a long journey after landing if the price and the travel times suit them. Don't use your personal opinion to colour the discussion. Personally I could sleep on the floor of an aircraft cabin, but I realise that is me, I don't assume everyone else can sleep as easily as me.
Eastbound T/A are always going to be night flights as their timing is determined by the earlier westbound flight from Europe. There are a handful of T/A flights which go against this pattern.
I'm sure chuboy is aware of the drive time from Dublin to Donegal. Yet again you don't seem to realise that some people can sleep on night flights and that they don't mind a long journey after landing if the price and the travel times suit them. Don't use your personal opinion to colour the discussion. Personally I could sleep on the floor of an aircraft cabin, but I realise that is me, I don't assume everyone else can sleep as easily as me.
Eastbound T/A are always going to be night flights as their timing is determined by the earlier westbound flight from Europe. There are a handful of T/A flights which go against this pattern.
When you can do that for cheaper than the DUB-CFN leg AND still beat the plane because of the unfavourable flight timing, why bother?
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Aer Lingus' LHR slot portfolio is not that valuable in isolation. It does not have many early morning arrival slots which, if it did, IAG would want to convert to long-haul for BA.
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I don't know its just a killer driving home from that Dublin airport to anywhere past Belfast. I've done it once and i'll not be doing it again unless I stay in a hotel.
If I was from Donegal i'd probably fly via Glasgow or something. You need to be realistic no one will want to drive across half of Ireland after a transatlantic flight.
And Aer Lingus are launching a transatlantic day flight this summer. We are in a prime spot to introduce more of these flights being 1 hour closer to Ameria than Heathrow. If a flight left Boston at even 9:30am it could arrive at 8pm whereas if it were Heathrow it would arrive at 9. Just an example.
If I was from Donegal i'd probably fly via Glasgow or something. You need to be realistic no one will want to drive across half of Ireland after a transatlantic flight.
And Aer Lingus are launching a transatlantic day flight this summer. We are in a prime spot to introduce more of these flights being 1 hour closer to Ameria than Heathrow. If a flight left Boston at even 9:30am it could arrive at 8pm whereas if it were Heathrow it would arrive at 9. Just an example.
Last edited by owenc; 8th Feb 2015 at 01:39.
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I don't know its just a killer driving home from that Dublin airport to anywhere past Belfast. I've done it once and i'll not be doing it again unless I stay in a hotel..... You need to be realistic no one will want to drive across half of Ireland after a transatlantic flight.
You need to be realistic and realise that just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't too. As chuboy points out there are multiple bus options which may very well beat the CFN-DUB on price, timing and convenience.
You need to be realistic and realise that just because you don't like it doesn't mean others won't too. As chuboy points out there are multiple bus options which may very well beat the CFN-DUB on price, timing and convenience.