Who has really won?
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Who has really won?
Is anybody else getting well and truly fed up with the infernal searches/ random searches by security?
Are you sick to death of various security personnel being more personal THAN THEY SHOULD BE? even my tailor doesn’t need to go that high!
At our unit, as it is airside, we have to go through the routine of the “Staff Channel” every time we wish to get to work.
Whilst I recognise the need for security, I have noticed that despite my attempts to dress in a manner which reduces/should remove spurious activations, the “XXXXING” machine always goes off. This Results in me having to remove my shoes. Note, ” Thanks a bundle attempted shoe bomber” You have achieved infamy, a thousand, or at least one, infidel curse you everyday. How’s that for making a name for yourself, and you never even got your virgins, ha!
Surely it is time for staff to rebel, after all we all had to go through the Scottish disclosure security thingy didn’t we?
I do not need more than 100mls of yoghurt to cause chaos, my supervisor has assured me of this fact. The statement before last is even more true if I were a pilot!
If I want to bring a bottle of water to work, do I have to wait until Evian decide there is a market for 99ml bottles?
Do I have to live on curries since they are less likely to explode than one of “Betty’s Hotpots” Are Heinze soups or tubs of margarine going to render our restroom a waste zone?
To ensure our safety the previous measures have cost ALL airports dearly. So who has won?
Are you sick to death of various security personnel being more personal THAN THEY SHOULD BE? even my tailor doesn’t need to go that high!
At our unit, as it is airside, we have to go through the routine of the “Staff Channel” every time we wish to get to work.
Whilst I recognise the need for security, I have noticed that despite my attempts to dress in a manner which reduces/should remove spurious activations, the “XXXXING” machine always goes off. This Results in me having to remove my shoes. Note, ” Thanks a bundle attempted shoe bomber” You have achieved infamy, a thousand, or at least one, infidel curse you everyday. How’s that for making a name for yourself, and you never even got your virgins, ha!
Surely it is time for staff to rebel, after all we all had to go through the Scottish disclosure security thingy didn’t we?
I do not need more than 100mls of yoghurt to cause chaos, my supervisor has assured me of this fact. The statement before last is even more true if I were a pilot!
If I want to bring a bottle of water to work, do I have to wait until Evian decide there is a market for 99ml bottles?
Do I have to live on curries since they are less likely to explode than one of “Betty’s Hotpots” Are Heinze soups or tubs of margarine going to render our restroom a waste zone?
To ensure our safety the previous measures have cost ALL airports dearly. So who has won?
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Bloody hell airac you sound well and truly pi$$ed off.
I can only speak as a passenger and can honestly say that security does not bother me in the slightest. I stick strictly to the 'rules' and never once has the XXXXXXX machine taken a fancy to me, or have I had the pleasure of being groped by any of the friendly (in the main) security staff.
However, if I worked at an airport and had to 'experience' security several times a day, I think my tolerance level may quickly reduce.
To answer your question, and speaking purely as a passenger, I believe we have definately won up to now, but at a considerable cost and not inconsiderable inconvenience when compared to pre 9/11.
Unfortunately tough security systems have become an expensive necessity which at times may appear illogical particularly for airport workers and crew, but the potential horror that could result from reduced security far outweighs any inconvenience. As to the wisdom of the type of security checks in place, I can only rely on the integrity of those tasked with the responsibilty who I must say, are better informed than me.
I can only speak as a passenger and can honestly say that security does not bother me in the slightest. I stick strictly to the 'rules' and never once has the XXXXXXX machine taken a fancy to me, or have I had the pleasure of being groped by any of the friendly (in the main) security staff.
However, if I worked at an airport and had to 'experience' security several times a day, I think my tolerance level may quickly reduce.
To answer your question, and speaking purely as a passenger, I believe we have definately won up to now, but at a considerable cost and not inconsiderable inconvenience when compared to pre 9/11.
Unfortunately tough security systems have become an expensive necessity which at times may appear illogical particularly for airport workers and crew, but the potential horror that could result from reduced security far outweighs any inconvenience. As to the wisdom of the type of security checks in place, I can only rely on the integrity of those tasked with the responsibilty who I must say, are better informed than me.
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100% with you airac, so much so that I took a career change so I wouldn't have to go through that T3 staff channel at MAN 4 or 5 times everyday!
This followed the introduction of the eye recognition system that never ever worked for me, time and time again I had to go to the back of the queue and start again.
I also had a "too friendly" security man who I raged at in front of some SLF as I passed through another security point. I refused to be searched by him again and actually got the supervisor to agree with me as he had been complained against before!
The security point, following the "indian train journey" on the staff west bus stressed me out far more tha the job ever did.
Now I fly about the world in my new job and go through security as a PAX, this I don't mind.
As for yoghurts and lucozade, don't start me on that one!
TSR2's post, yes we are safer and for SLF it is right that these checks are carried out but like airac said, staff have gone through the disclosure system to gain our airport passes, we are entrusted, in my case with a box of tools around aircraft and in the flight crews case the controls of the bloody thing!
Jobsworths the lot of them at these staff gates!!!
This followed the introduction of the eye recognition system that never ever worked for me, time and time again I had to go to the back of the queue and start again.
I also had a "too friendly" security man who I raged at in front of some SLF as I passed through another security point. I refused to be searched by him again and actually got the supervisor to agree with me as he had been complained against before!
The security point, following the "indian train journey" on the staff west bus stressed me out far more tha the job ever did.
Now I fly about the world in my new job and go through security as a PAX, this I don't mind.
As for yoghurts and lucozade, don't start me on that one!
TSR2's post, yes we are safer and for SLF it is right that these checks are carried out but like airac said, staff have gone through the disclosure system to gain our airport passes, we are entrusted, in my case with a box of tools around aircraft and in the flight crews case the controls of the bloody thing!
Jobsworths the lot of them at these staff gates!!!
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Agree entirely
Bloody Hitlers, the lot of them.
There is no need for them to "feel me up" like they do every time the bloody beeper goes off. I don't want to marry you or anything, so keep your grubby little hands off me.
Another thing that bugs me is when you are trying to undress (take your coat/jacket off) and they try and grab your ID. If you WAIT a minute I'll show you my bloody ID, afterall we do it EVERY DAY.
They also search your flight case - WHY? It's just been through the bloody x-ray machine. They pull it apart, go into my headset case, start faffing about in all compartments. If you find anything worth having I want half of it ok?
Tossers
(Now look what you've done airac, you've wound me up on my day off)
.
Bloody Hitlers, the lot of them.
There is no need for them to "feel me up" like they do every time the bloody beeper goes off. I don't want to marry you or anything, so keep your grubby little hands off me.
Another thing that bugs me is when you are trying to undress (take your coat/jacket off) and they try and grab your ID. If you WAIT a minute I'll show you my bloody ID, afterall we do it EVERY DAY.
They also search your flight case - WHY? It's just been through the bloody x-ray machine. They pull it apart, go into my headset case, start faffing about in all compartments. If you find anything worth having I want half of it ok?
Tossers
(Now look what you've done airac, you've wound me up on my day off)
.
Last edited by Coffin Corner; 13th Oct 2010 at 12:31.
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I was late to my gate at MAN, came on shift at 0600hrs and went straight through T3 security. 20 MINUTES later I was allowed to proceed to my job after the "sharp" item in my bag was located.
It was a metal pen. I kid you not. Also they took my breakfast off me. Yoghurt, under a 100ml but as a corner type it was over a 100g total weight and because I couldn't prove the actual liquid volume I wasn't allowed them. Never mind that I take them every day. I asked what I was supposed to eat, since I don't like ceral and the airport have taken the toasters away as a "fire" hazard.
They put them aside and let me take them back through landside later on.
Thank god I'm on mat leave now and don't have to put up with this BS now.
It was a metal pen. I kid you not. Also they took my breakfast off me. Yoghurt, under a 100ml but as a corner type it was over a 100g total weight and because I couldn't prove the actual liquid volume I wasn't allowed them. Never mind that I take them every day. I asked what I was supposed to eat, since I don't like ceral and the airport have taken the toasters away as a "fire" hazard.
They put them aside and let me take them back through landside later on.Thank god I'm on mat leave now and don't have to put up with this BS now.
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The Staff are revolting!!
So I'm not the only one , Sorry coffin corner!
TSR2
I know you're right regarding the potential horror but there should be exceptions when it comes to staff. I can wander anywhere, except the baggage loading area so I have obviously satisfied the security checks.
Lexxity
apparently a colleague of mine cuts the corner off and takes them through as two containers ,thus baffling the security men.
I'm thinking quite seriously of following the advice given on "Mock the week" and moaning with delight as they run their hands all over my body, however knowing my luck I'd probably pull!
TSR2
I know you're right regarding the potential horror but there should be exceptions when it comes to staff. I can wander anywhere, except the baggage loading area so I have obviously satisfied the security checks.
Lexxity
apparently a colleague of mine cuts the corner off and takes them through as two containers ,thus baffling the security men.
I'm thinking quite seriously of following the advice given on "Mock the week" and moaning with delight as they run their hands all over my body, however knowing my luck I'd probably pull!
Last edited by airac; 13th Oct 2010 at 14:47. Reason: word change
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Serenity
The Flybe FlapJacks are bloody lethal. If thrown they can make a bloody good weapon. If eaten they'll end up giving you a cardiac, just like the rest of the Flybe crew food
The Flybe FlapJacks are bloody lethal. If thrown they can make a bloody good weapon. If eaten they'll end up giving you a cardiac, just like the rest of the Flybe crew food
Who has really won?
''Disruption of normal life without any demonstrable benefit to our society. is a victory for terrorists ''
(DHS report to Congress some years ago)
Well looks like the terrorists have won then!
(DHS report to Congress some years ago)
Well looks like the terrorists have won then!
Recently returned from the USA out of SFO. Upon opening our suitcase at home the wife noticed that the clothes had been rifled and were not neat and tidy as she packed them. Inside was a notice from some US government agency that said our case had been selected for checking. The lock had been forced to gain entry. Its not until you are back in this country that you realise that the case has been opened. I think its a 'bloody cheek' my wife says. You should be asked to accompany your case if its about to be checked so that you have control over what actually happens. We still do not know if anything has been pilfered.
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Crew Security Checks
I think you guys need to step back and think logically. What would happen if crew security was not as tight as SLF?
If I were sat in my cave with my laptop, I would go on-line and buy a pilots uniform - probably from the same web site / shop that John Travolta buys his. Buy a fake ID on the black market - and bobs your uncle I've found the weak link
Keep Smiling.
If I were sat in my cave with my laptop, I would go on-line and buy a pilots uniform - probably from the same web site / shop that John Travolta buys his. Buy a fake ID on the black market - and bobs your uncle I've found the weak link
Keep Smiling.
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Nonsense bizdev
Our IDs are photo IDs. We walk through as a crew. Very, very rare is there a necessity to walk through as individuals.
Even if you managed it, how are you going to gain access to the flightdeck and operate as a member of a multi-crew aeroplane?
Our IDs are photo IDs. We walk through as a crew. Very, very rare is there a necessity to walk through as individuals.
Even if you managed it, how are you going to gain access to the flightdeck and operate as a member of a multi-crew aeroplane?
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Coffin Corner
I am not suggesting a terrorist who dresses up as a pilot is going to fly the aircraft - he just needs to get airside to do his deed / plant bomb / sabotage etc. And who is going to question a pilot who is on his own and is "running late" or is a bit "keen"?
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There was a little revolt at LPL by the security staff recently when they found out that in the new search comb their staff restroom was now airside and they couldn't take their own drinks through. They had to buy them at inflated prices airside. Shame isn't it!!
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I dont want to labour the point as I understand that you guys are seriously pi$$ed off. But just because terrorists wear towels on their heads does not mean they are stupid.
After they have gotten airside they do not need to board an aircraft as SLF - they do not need to fly with aircraft to do damage - they just need to have access to the aircraft (wheel wells / freight holds / avionics bay etc.).
What ever you may think - crew security is as important as SLF security - I guess they just need to do it with a bit of common sense.
After they have gotten airside they do not need to board an aircraft as SLF - they do not need to fly with aircraft to do damage - they just need to have access to the aircraft (wheel wells / freight holds / avionics bay etc.).
What ever you may think - crew security is as important as SLF security - I guess they just need to do it with a bit of common sense.
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It's all about money
as I say, it is all about money. Think of every single passenger or staff going through so-called-security with no drinks, toiletries and others and having to buy them airside. Now think of all these expensive x-ray, scanners, liquid analyzers, etc. And last but not least all the private companies hiring and training robot-like personnel and getting millionaire contracts worldwide.
Thank you Mr Bush, Cheney and the herd, thank you NWO, now the world is safer...
...but it sucks!
And more to come in terms of loosing freedom...
About the real security just think of the catering trucks going airside, do you believe there is no (0%) chance they bring anything they shouldn't? are they 100% sterile? NO. So if nothing happens now it's just because there's no interest for it. Maybe when they're ready to invade Iran or Venezuela we'll suffer more "terrorist" attacks.
Thank you Mr Bush, Cheney and the herd, thank you NWO, now the world is safer...
...but it sucks!
And more to come in terms of loosing freedom...
About the real security just think of the catering trucks going airside, do you believe there is no (0%) chance they bring anything they shouldn't? are they 100% sterile? NO. So if nothing happens now it's just because there's no interest for it. Maybe when they're ready to invade Iran or Venezuela we'll suffer more "terrorist" attacks.
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Clueless, bizdev. How do we get access to the ramp with our "bomb"? Do you know? (ID swipe with personal code) How do we board an aircraft with airline crew who do not recognize us? Believe me, you'll give yourself away in no time. Even without wearing headdress. And what does photo id signify? You cannot just acquire a copy that will pass the swipe machine of security. clueless.
The fact is that UK/US/Canada/Aus/NZ/Euro security checks on flight crew are far more onerous and unpleasant than those given to passengers. And so far, it is "passengers" who commit the atrocities, or attempt to. The pressure felt by crew is not easy to explain. But this is not a pilots' website, so perhaps we are wasting our time, as we cannot communicate here.
Al Qeuda and their miserable spin-offs have so far won in the aviation environment, as evidenced by the fear they instill in passengers and the anger they generate in working crew. And the enormity of the impotent security machine created in fear, the machine which any intelligent crew member could outwit at all times. No details needed.
And as for security in the Middle East, (Excl Israel), Caribbean, Central and South America, Africa, and much of the Far East, you would laugh. It is so cursory, and yet the terrorists could hit flights there with distant targets. Clueless.
The fact is that UK/US/Canada/Aus/NZ/Euro security checks on flight crew are far more onerous and unpleasant than those given to passengers. And so far, it is "passengers" who commit the atrocities, or attempt to. The pressure felt by crew is not easy to explain. But this is not a pilots' website, so perhaps we are wasting our time, as we cannot communicate here.
Al Qeuda and their miserable spin-offs have so far won in the aviation environment, as evidenced by the fear they instill in passengers and the anger they generate in working crew. And the enormity of the impotent security machine created in fear, the machine which any intelligent crew member could outwit at all times. No details needed.
And as for security in the Middle East, (Excl Israel), Caribbean, Central and South America, Africa, and much of the Far East, you would laugh. It is so cursory, and yet the terrorists could hit flights there with distant targets. Clueless.
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Mr Bloggs
Clueless Moi?
I think you are letting your anger and passion cloud your judgment. I have been off the ramp for a few years now but spent many years there - and plenty of time going through security.
Do you really believe that it is impossible to fake an ID? Or fake the necessary documents in order to obtain one by going through the proper process? Or planting someone in the ID section?
I can think of numerous ways of getting a bomb or substance(s) airside but I will not elaborate here.
Dont let the b*****rds get to you - otherwise 'they' will have won - keep a clear head
I think you are letting your anger and passion cloud your judgment. I have been off the ramp for a few years now but spent many years there - and plenty of time going through security.
Do you really believe that it is impossible to fake an ID? Or fake the necessary documents in order to obtain one by going through the proper process? Or planting someone in the ID section?
I can think of numerous ways of getting a bomb or substance(s) airside but I will not elaborate here.
Dont let the b*****rds get to you - otherwise 'they' will have won - keep a clear head
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bizdev
Whilst you may have worked airside for eons, the discussion in question is the way security acts towards flightcrew. We/I was specifically talking about crew in uniform going through the security system at airports. So whilst your theory for enabling a bomb to get airside from your point of view holds water, it doesn't from our point of view as crew.
You seem to have changed tact from your original comments in post #12 to turning it into a discussion about how easy it is for ground crew to smuggle in a bomb to try and justify your stance.
We are talking about flightcrew being screened and the way we are treated.
Whilst you may have worked airside for eons, the discussion in question is the way security acts towards flightcrew. We/I was specifically talking about crew in uniform going through the security system at airports. So whilst your theory for enabling a bomb to get airside from your point of view holds water, it doesn't from our point of view as crew.
You seem to have changed tact from your original comments in post #12 to turning it into a discussion about how easy it is for ground crew to smuggle in a bomb to try and justify your stance.
We are talking about flightcrew being screened and the way we are treated.
