MANCHESTER - 8

[2Planks]

Chaps - your point is not valid - the child did pass through the security check - so if he had a bag it was scanned and he passed through the arch.....

[Ernest Lanc's]

It hadn't been mandatory to do head counts on aircraft parked on an airbridge stands as ground staff have accounted for all passengers going through the gate.

FR did a head count when we came back from Easter...They noted a passenger was missing, but other pax explained he/she was not coming on board.

Again - I am sure Jet2 do head counts, no matter the mode of boarding..

Originally Posted by 2Planks

Chaps - your point is not valid - the child did pass through the security check - so if he had a bag it was scanned and he passed through the arch.....

Just because he went through a check, that does not mean the kid could NOT be a threat.

we don't need to talk explosives, we only need to talk small that could cause panic on an a/c.

Anyway -- Can we trust any mode of security that lets a child unchallenged board and aircraft with no passport or boarding card..

That is not foolproof security..Also jet2 don't allow children to fly alone..The mind boggles and I am flying from MAN with Jet2 on Monday.

The security at the airport must have been flawed. and how did he get on the aircraft with no boarding card?. safer to walk, methinks.

[The96er]

FR did a head count when we came back from Easter...They noted a passenger was missing, but other pax explained he/she was not coming on board.

Again - I am sure Jet2 do head counts, no matter the mode of boarding..

You can be sure all you like, but until today Jet2's policy was to only do head counts when boarding via steps. When boarding via an Airbridge, it was accepted that the checks through the gate were suitable enough. Thomson operate a similar policy.

[Ernest Lanc's]

You can be sure all you like, but until today Jet2's policy was to only do head counts when boarding via steps. When boarding via an Airbridge, it was accepted that the checks through the gate were suitable enough. Thomson operate a similar policy.

Well I have been headcounted by Jet2 and FR for that matter, with FR this year.
I will not argue the point about the Airbridge as I am not 100% sure.

Makes no difference anyway..This kid should have been head counted at the gate, so what's the difference?.

If there was a discrepancy at the gate, which there should have been..There would have been a secondary headcount on the aircraft.

Also how did this child get though security?.. You drop your bag of, you go to security where adults and children show their documents..Then off to the departure lounge..have a pint and go to gate when ready.


You show your passport at gate, your boarding pass is ripped in half..You go to aircraft..You show your boarding pass with open passport..

The child had no documents whatsoever, yet is able to deceive MAN security and Jet2 gate and aircraft staff.

This kinda proves my point.

Five airline staff suspended after youngster was able to board Jet2.com flight without boarding pass or passport

Rome alone: 11-year-old boy flies from Manchester to Italy without ticket | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Have airport security staff been suspended also I wonder?.

[bermudatriangle]

i fancy a few days in rome.perhaps Jet 2 via manchester seems the cheapest option,no ticket or passport required ,just turn up and travel,happy days !!

[easyflyer83]

In retrospect i'm not surprised this has happened.

Security was the best chance of picking this little lad up. I'm not into dishing out blame and I'm not saying there aren't mitigating circumstances but they had the most time with the child and therefore a better chance of realising he wasn't with anyone.

I have sympathy with the gate agents. Checking boarding cards and passports and making sure they match with children running around makes such an error so easy I imagine.

Once onboard the same applies. Children sometimes run onboard in front of their parents and before you know it they're down the cabin and you have to just carry on and keep checkin boarding cards. Families tend to pass you all the boarding cards, sometimes there are other people boarding in between two groups of the same family and it can be hard to keep track.

Ultimately, a head count would likely have highlighted the problem here. Even then an incorrect headcount could lead to the figure given to the dispatcher but given all that had happened up to the point of getting onboard, that would have been really bad luck.

Lots of other airlines, BA included (certainly when I was at GB) a headcount isn't completed.

I'm not dismissing the incident but in response to some of the comments about the safety of Jet2, I honestly think that this could have happened at any airline in MAN that day. A headcount would have eventually highlighted the problem but all that happened before could have led to the boy boarding EZY, BA etc etc.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Originally Posted by easyflyer83

Ultimately, a head count would likely have highlighted the problem here. Even then an incorrect headcount could lead to the figure given to the dispatcher but given all that had happened up to the point of getting onboard, that would have been really bad luck.

From my link.

Once on the aircraft, none of the crew realised he did not have a boarding card as he took a seat. A headcount failed to alert them to the discrepancy.

Rome alone: 11-year-old boy flies from Manchester to Italy without ticket | UK news | guardian.co.uk

The boy would not have checked in..Therefore he would have gone straight to security.

Security would have asked him to look at his passport, forget the red herring about him tagging onto a family.

Adults and children alike are asked in an orderly manner to show documents, put any metal/laptops under that scanner...in this case the lad would just have walked under the arch.

Now in the departure lounge - When he goes to gate he is asked for boarding card with passport open at photo..Then he would have gone to the aircraft and on boarding, the cabin crew would have checked the boarding pass, while passport is open at photo page..

So this boy induces a serious mistake by MAN security, quite separate from the Jet2 procedures.

He gets through the gate without showing documents, he then gets on the aircraft with no boarding pass, and passport open at the photo page. He then is not noticed in a headcount.

Ultimately, a head count would likely have highlighted the problem here. Even then an incorrect headcount could lead to the figure given to the dispatcher but given all that had happened up to the point of getting onboard, that would have been really bad luck.

easyflyer83

Read the first quote above, or follow the link..Jet2 headcounts are orderly..mainly as I remember when the passengers are seated and seat belted.

This is all the more serious due to the Olympics..The Americans are here, the British live here..And this episode just might go down in some terrorist training manual.
Even though I do travel from MAN at times, I was typing what happens at BLK to the letter...

I think the same procedures are carried out at MAN, and Liverpool have stringent security.
Blame has to be laid at those responsible at MAN security, and I see Jet2 have suspended 5, and an enquiry is under way...Not much, but better than nothing.
This episode is not bad luck, it's poor security managment - all round.

[pwalhx]

I am intrigued as to why having flown through Manchester on at least 10 occasions in the last three months I have not been asked to show my passport at security then Ernest? Generally you show your passport at check in (or not if you have checked in on line) and then at the gate as you board. At security they merely scan your boarding card.

I have sympathy with secuirty here I have many times, not just at Manchester but all over the world, seem families grouped around the security area unloading copious amounts of bags belts, coats etc and am not surprised that such a mistake could be made. The fact it is the time of the Olympics is merely a side issue here, it doesn't matter when it happens.

[MKY661]

Ive been though the security at MAN on a lot of occasions now and they ask that passports are not required and they only want your boarding card. I think you are supposed to show your passport at Check-In. at the gate and at Immigration of your arrival airport. Most airports I use only want your boarding card at security. The only place ive been to where they do want your passport is Gibraltar.

[paully]

Dear me, some serious Po Faced responses on here...one smugly satisfied 5 hardworking staff are suspended and probably lose their jobs....Dont you ever make a mistake which this was. No one set out to be careless just doing their jobs whilst understaffed and overworked...Try it some time

Forgot to add just for the record the MD of Jet2 admitted that they dont do head counts if boarding via an airbridge..........well until yesterday obviously

[pwalhx]

Well said paully.

[edi_local]

I don't think I've ever shown my passport at security in the UK. Why would I? It's not their job to check my ID, it's just their job to make sure I'm getting on a plane and not taking anything dangerous with me.

Anyway, someone said there should have been a discrepancy at the gate. Why would there have been? The boy had no boarding card and wasn't checked in, even if the gate staff counted all the boarding cards and checked them against the system 100 times they would still never pick up that someone extra was on board as there was no trace of the boy on the flight. Gate staff don't stand and count the passengers as they go through, they just need to match the number of boarding cards against what is shown on the screen and then, if required, match what the cabin crew count on board.

[TSR2]

Forgot to add just for the record the MD of Jet2 admitted that they dont do head counts if boarding via an airbridge..........well until yesterday obviously

When using an airbridge, a headcount should not be necessary if there is effective scrutiny of boarding cards at the entry door to the aircraft. This is the only point in the current boarding process that would prevent entry on to the aircraft by unauthorised would-be passengers.

I am sure Jet2's investigation will focus on the reasons why the scrutiny of boarding cards on entry to the aircraft was on this occasion ineffective.

[JC25]

There is no requirement to show your passport or ID at security, whether travelling internationally or domestically. All passengers pass through the same security search area and security have no interest in where you are travelling too, just that you are travelling somewhere. Checking ID documents for international passengers is the responsibility if the airline (thru handling agent). Some airlines don't require ID at all for domestic passengers.

It is concerning that the boy passed unnoticed through three stages of control undetected, but I don't think any single person or group can be blamed. It was unlucky and certainly undesirable, but I highly doubt it would have happened had it been an adult and less easily bunched in with a group of low risk kids.

It's also worth noting that in Europe there is no requirement to check boarding cards in the aircraft (unless bound for the UK) so UK controls should be more likely to detect these things.

[Ernest Lanc's]

I am intrigued as to why having flown through Manchester on at least 10 occasions in the last three months I have not been asked to show my passport at security then Ernest? Generally you show your passport at check in (or not if you have checked in on line) and then at the gate as you board. At security they merely scan your boarding card.

pwalhx.
"At security they merely scan your boarding cards"..

This child did not have a boarding card..He was 11 years old and would have been expected to carry his own. Even if i am wrong over passports at security, That does not explain why he was allowed through with no boarding card..

Originally Posted by edi_local

Anyway, someone said there should have been a discrepancy at the gate. Why would there have been? The boy had no boarding card and wasn't checked in, even if the gate staff counted all the boarding cards and checked them against the system 100 times they would still never pick up that someone extra was on board as there was no trace of the boy on the flight.

The boy would have been asked for a boarding card at the gate..If he did not have one, he would not have been able to access the Airbridge to the aircraft..It's that simple - No card = No flight..

Being the lad was not checked in, he would have no boarding card..In that case again - No access to aircraft.

Originally Posted by edi_local

] Gate staff don't stand and count the passengers as they go through, they just need to match the number of boarding cards against what is shown on the screen and then, if required, match what the cabin crew count on board. 26th Jul 2012 09:10

Exactly: And if the child did not have a boarding card, he could not have given them one to match on the screen - Could he?.

Dear me, some serious Po Faced responses on here...one smugly satisfied 5 hardworking staff are suspended and probably lose their jobs....Dont you ever make a mistake which this was. No one set out to be careless just doing their jobs whilst understaffed and overworked...Try it some time

paully.

This job is not like any other.It's not being po faced to want to travel safe..This child could not have been an innocent child.

Also two levels of security have been breached, not one..Also I am (almost)sure you have to show an open passport at the gate before boarding.

For Example let a surgeon make a mistake while undertaking an operation, then see what happens..Never mind eh - he did not set out to be careless.

[seahawks]

Ref 23R/05L ILS problems.
Basically a sub-standard piece of kit was installed by a supplier who have repeatedly failed to make it work to CAT3 standard for any significant period.
Opting for a lower cost supplier has spectacularly backfired, hopefully some lessons have been learned.

[lexxity]

The lad in question said he sat in the loo onboard during boarding and take off.

[Ernest Lanc's]

One: You are not allowed in the loo during landing and take off..

The original question still holds good...How would he have got on the aic without a boarding pass, to get inside the loo?.

I flying with Jet2 from MAN on Monday to ALC, I expect security will be better after this episode, which will be a good thing to come from this shambles..Not jst Jet2 to blame, he got through decurity with no documents..Bet that's been put right now.
EDIT: Good will come from this is the long run, lessons are bound to be learned and we will all be safer for that.

[avturboy]

As a regular business pax travelling through MAN I have no great concerns about overall security there; clearly on this occasion a mistakes have been made in passenger handling, it will be investigated and lessons will be learnt. Don't really see the point in all the speculation, the mistakes have occurred, in a system staffed by people that is always going to be a possibility (highly remote - we hope). Let the mistakes be investigated by folks who job it is to do that.

I accept the notion put forward by some that there is no likelihood of this mistake happening to an adult passenger. Having passed through security scanning the lad was not identified as 'carrying anything', therefore regardless of the right & wrongs of his boarding the aircraft he was not a security threat so from that point of view 'security' have done there job, it is other aspects of passenger handling that have gone wrong.

From my regular travels through other UK airports I think this set of circumstances could just as easily have happened elsewhere, I don't think it is a reflection on the Manchester as such. Airline staff and handling agents are working under pressure up and down the land ... (I am neither)

[EuroWings]

The original question still holds good...How would he have got on the aic without a boarding pass, to get inside the loo?.

Think about it, he's an eleven year old and it's the start of the school holidays so Terminal 1 is packed out with families and groups. Kids often aren't trusted to keep hold of their own boarding passes and passport, which is entirely sensible. The lad mingles with different families from airside to the plane and they think he's just ahead of/behind his own family, or something like that.

As I mentioned before, Manchester Airport no longer has dedicated staff checking boarding passes at the entrance to security, it's done by busy screeners who aren't necessarily in a position to thoroughly check each child in a large group (they might not be able to see them even).

Boarding the plane, mum/dad hands over boarding passes and passports to the handling agents and later boarding pass stubs to the cabin crew, this lad meanwhile mingling in with these families who perhaps aren't paying as much attention to him as they should.

Jet2's policy was that no headcount was needed, if the aircraft had been boarded via an airbridge directly from the terminal. All UK and Ireland based airlines the cabin crew have to check boarding passes, but headcounts are not compulsory. However, many countries don't have that requirement either.

Jet2's policy was not slack at all, since British Airways currently does not routinely perform headcounts either in these circumstances. Not that the media would tell you that. easyJet and Ryanair have compulsory headcounts on all flights (then again, the latter avoids airbridges wherever possible) and this incident may result in this procedure becoming mandatory on all airlines.

Good will come from this is the long run, lessons are bound to be learned and we will all be safer for that.

He was fully screened by security staff, so judging by the current standards he no risk to the aircraft. If he'd evaded being scanned, then the Airport would have been in massive trouble.

It's not terrible uncommon for passengers to end up boarding the wrong flight and only noticing when the destination/flight number is mentioned!