MANCHESTER - 8

[nigel osborne]

Mickyman,

I think someone is entitled to show whatever figures they want as long as they believe they are correct .

As Oltonpete says with so many different configs and varients used into LHR he cannot work out the LHR figure..why is that wrong ?.

If he wants to sat there are so many Manchester seats empty, and the load factor percentages suggest it, why can he not do that ?

Manchester has done really well in this region of the World and its no reflection on an airport if some of the figures are a bit down ?

Nigel

[mickyman]

Hi Nigel,

I was only asking for a level playing field - that is all
Why would you state how many empty seats there were on one
route......without comparing the companies other compatible routes?

OltonPete,

Do you have any figures for empty seats to Doha from MAN & LHR ?

MM

[chaps2011]

Nigel
The figures are not down they are up, it` s just that it`s not quite up as much the extra seats that are avaible. The stuation is that many flights are operating full
so if there were less flights passengers would be turned away and quite likely lost to another carrier and airport.

Ian

[MAN777]

I and some work colleagues travel on a regular basis with EK and QR

On more than one occasion I have known there to be absolutely no space on the MAN flights in Business. The last time I came back from DXB with EK I had to take a BHX flight instead with the free limo to get me to Manchester !!

[crewmeal]

At the rate things are going MAN could see 3-4 x EK A380's a day within 5 years. The figures are excellent and something to be proud of. I doubt whether London Airways would ever achieve such a performance on any of their routes.

[Skipness One Echo]

That's mainly because BA is a UK based company with a cost base to match. I am not bashing Emirates but do at least try and understand why they have advantages of being a "commercial entity" with VERY strong government backing and investment in infrastructure that demolishes all before them. Incidentally if you want to play childish name calling then be fair and use the equally silly name of "Dubai Airways" please.

[MAN777]

Skipness

Hardly Childish "London Airways" has been used by most north of Watford Gap for years.

British Airways should be prosecuted under the trade description act as the name is misleading, BA does zilch for the majority of the UK, London airways is a very accurate description.

[JSCL]

Indeed, I'd say FlyBe would do better with the name British Airways

It'll never happen but by the theory of serving the whole country, FlyBe's the one.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi SOE ... Always preferred "Cockney Airways" myself ... describes the target market so well! :-)

But seriously, let's not forget that BA has itself milked "very strong government support" in the past. The regions suffered with carriers considered competition to 'the favourite' being denied access to the regions for years. Please don't ask us provincials to yield to BA's hard luck stories today.

BA didn't want us. Fair enough. EK/EY/QR do. Fair enough!

Cheers, SHED.

[crewmeal]

Skipness

At least the Gulf carriers have invested heavily in the region at a time when worldwide travel is/has been in recession. What did BA do? pull out of the region leaving a feeder service that is quite often unreliable at the best of times.

[Facelookbovvered]

Perhaps APD could be used to help support routes ot of the regions, LHR is 99.9% full so doing what they have done in here in NI to support long haul flights might help, much of the traffic from the regions on long haul routes is low yield VFR and lowering the economy ticket APD to say a flat £12 for all flights would encourage traffic from the regions.

I guess the problem would be where to draw the line, perhaps saying inside the M25, might work? But there would probably be a legal challenge? Or go one step further and make it £12 from anywhere in the UK, but then add a London emissions surcharge for flights within the M25 to recover lost revenue. It does seem vey odd at a time when the country needs economic growth to tax air traffic so heavily, it's akin to sealing up a business letter box and going ex directory!

[Skipness One Echo]

BA want you in exactly the way EK, QR,EY,KL, AF etc do. As a spoke from their hub. As to worshiping at the altar of Emirates, they're becoming dominant in a way that means the return of direct non stop services is untenable as Emirates will win on price and clout. No Cathay and Singapore struggling, I doubt MAN will see too many 787 routes if that continues. They're too powerful now.

[MAN777]

skipness

re EK dominating, that is now a fact of life and its not just a UK thing, they are thought to be responsible for damaging the Kangaroo route and openly poach passengers wherever they can get away with it. The DXB EK hub is a great big black hole that needs feeding passengers 3 or 4 times a day.

I accept that legacy carriers are going to find it really hard to take them on with new routes but I actually don't really mind because I have access to the world (east at least) via a wonderful airport which is halfway to most destinations. As previously mentioned it doesn't matter that they are fuelled by Arab oil money because the investment floods into the UK on the back of the operation.

Us northerners don't mind hubing because we have been forced to do it for many years by our so called national carrier conspiring with codeshare partners and travel agents to funnel passengers through LHR.

Judging by the popularity of the EK LHR services I suspect they are denting the fortunes of grandfather airlines there ?

[TURIN]

I doubt MAN will see too many 787 routes if that continues.

First one starts this winter.

Assuming the GEnx engine ever gets certified.

[mickyman]

Skipness One Echo

As I described a few years ago on this very forum - Its a hub and
spoke system but on a much bigger (global) scale.
I think your problem is that it is no longer YOUR hub and spoke that
dominates.

Welcome to the world of global consumer power.


PS:Glad to hear that BA's finances are picking up.

MM

[Skipness One Echo]

Mickeyman it's not my hub, I don't work for BA. It's in the control of a non democratic Arab state which has the power to squash the competition and work with a cost base a fraction of it's legacy rivals. The Gulf carriers have focusses on Manchester and the UK for very particular cultural and political reasons much of which has little to do with commercial profit and loss. It's swapping one non level playing field for another and being impressed because one serves MAN with medium to heavy aircraft three times a day versus legacy on smaller equipment on multiple dailes. They're not all that different, the gulf boys have bigger........planes.

The B787 point I was making was on legacy point to point, the "next big thing" as it were. Adding new routes on a p2p from MAN.

[Mr.Bloggs]

Misplaced and blind support

Why not support your own country's flag carrier in the same way you support Manchester Airport. Or do you feel ok just prostituting your support in favour of the Arab carriers? I can guarantee that the Sheikhs in the UAE (Doha, Qatar included) are not so benevolent. Try working out there. I have, and they despise Britain along with the USA.

Or can you just not get over BA pulling out of MAN? Childish folk.

[JSCL]

Since when did the gulf boys have bigger planes? Doesn't Virgin and BA both have A380's on order? Don't BA operate the 777 and 747? What do the gulf carriers operate, 777's, 330's and some 340's just like the London lot.

@Mr.Bloggs, as someone who travels by air some 12+ times per month the service and quality of the gulf operators is just far better and far superior from my experience. I used to be very BA loyal as many of us well traveled in the UK are/were. But no longer.

[Skipness One Echo]

You know very well I meant they operate larger aircraft into Manchester for goodness sake.

[JSCL]

Oh yes because flying a380's the stones throw distance of MAN-LHR is seriously economical. What does the size of A/C have to do with the argument? There's enough London seats from MAN. The argument means nothing.