DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 35
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Evening Gazette isn't exactly a reputable newspaper and since when has Joe Public had a clue about operating airports??
Peel may have their faults, but I wouldn't take a great deal of notice of what that article states.
What the airport has been finding at their consultation events, and FoDTVA too at their meetings, is that people have been crashing in with both feet and attacking the airport, then when they've had the master plan explained to them and their questions answered, they've left feeling quite pleased.
Peel may have their faults, but I wouldn't take a great deal of notice of what that article states.
What the airport has been finding at their consultation events, and FoDTVA too at their meetings, is that people have been crashing in with both feet and attacking the airport, then when they've had the master plan explained to them and their questions answered, they've left feeling quite pleased.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Durham
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Evening Gazette isn't exactly a reputable newspaper and since when has Joe Public had a clue about operating airports??
Peel may have their faults, but I wouldn't take a great deal of notice of what that article states.What the airport has been finding at their consultation events, and FoDTVA too at their meetings, is that people have been crashing in with both feet and attacking the airport, then when they've had the master plan explained to them and their questions answered, they've left feeling quite pleased.
Peel may have their faults, but I wouldn't take a great deal of notice of what that article states.What the airport has been finding at their consultation events, and FoDTVA too at their meetings, is that people have been crashing in with both feet and attacking the airport, then when they've had the master plan explained to them and their questions answered, they've left feeling quite pleased.
Presumably somebody at these meetings has asked why next summer's charter flights were turned away?
What was the answer, as I don't think I've seen it properly explained.
What was the answer, as I don't think I've seen it properly explained.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 35
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SWBKCB - I'm not at liberty to say exactly how much (though if you look hard enough the figure can be found online) but the charter flights were costing the airport a significant amount of money per passenger.
The axing of charter flights coupled with the mothballing of 40% of the terminal is expected to cut the annual loss by as much as half, which is not to be sniffed at, as sad as the loss of flights may be.
The axing of charter flights coupled with the mothballing of 40% of the terminal is expected to cut the annual loss by as much as half, which is not to be sniffed at, as sad as the loss of flights may be.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Durham
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SWBKCB - I'm not at liberty to say exactly how much (though if you look hard enough the figure can be found online) but the charter flights were costing the airport a significant amount of money per passenger.
The axing of charter flights coupled with the mothballing of 40% of the terminal is expected to cut the annual loss by as much as half, which is not to be sniffed at, as sad as the loss of flights may be.
The axing of charter flights coupled with the mothballing of 40% of the terminal is expected to cut the annual loss by as much as half, which is not to be sniffed at, as sad as the loss of flights may be.
Sarcasm - "The highest form of intelligism!"
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 35
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VentureGo, you've completely twisted that out of proportion, there are genuine and valid reasons for the axing of charter flights, a single weekly rotation for six months of the year was never going to be profitable, if an operator was prepared to base an aircraft then that's a completely different storey, but no operator in the present climate is going to do that, God knows the airport has tried to persuade them enough times!
You try running a business at a loss, see how far you get before you have to take drastic measures in order to survive!
You try running a business at a loss, see how far you get before you have to take drastic measures in order to survive!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dubai and Sunderland
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DTV - I have thought long and hard on the charter turn away, I cannot understand the gains by turning away passengers?? You can cut duty free and mothball part of terminal and still handle a couple of hundred passengers three times a week?? Security etc can be reduced just take longer to handle, as there won't be duty free then nothing for them to rush to!! The flights were all during normal working hours so no problem there?
If for the airport is not making money on the 'deal' well that would be another thing!! Just put prices up and let Thomson decide if they want to continue, at least make someone else the 'bad guy'!!
If for the airport is not making money on the 'deal' well that would be another thing!! Just put prices up and let Thomson decide if they want to continue, at least make someone else the 'bad guy'!!
DTVAirport - without necessarily indicating specific numbers, could you perhaps indicate the extra tasks or costs that the airport has to incur to service a charter flight, above and beyond those of a scheduled flight ?
The only thing I can think of is the extra temporary fire cover one might need for a B737 versus a Fokker 70
The only thing I can think of is the extra temporary fire cover one might need for a B737 versus a Fokker 70
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Teesside
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Charter Flights
I have asked the same question and have failed to see a response I fully comprehend. So, armed with no facts, we can only assume and this is my assumption.
1) DTV Airport is right - they are losing money on charter flights and decided to stem the losses by cutting them.
2) The losses on a charter flight though can't be any more (materially) than the losses on the KLM/Eastern flights. There would be huge public outctry if Peel kicked out KLM and there could be a KLM contract in place which prevents Peel from doing that. I am in no doubt though that Peel loses money on KLM and Eastern but instead of cutting these to save money they are trying to subsidise them by making money elsewhere.
I make my assumption on (2) not knowing what fees the airport get from the landing and departing aircraft, but I would claim that those typically business passengers will spend a lot less discretional expenditure within the airport campus.
So, we are now in a waiting game as to passenger operations. None of us know the amount of money KLM makes on our flights. However, we do know that rolling passenger numbers have fallen in each of the last 12 months and the recent PR isn't likely to help. This could lead to 4 outcomes:
1) KLM numbers stabilise, KLM are making enough money and Peel can subsidise the losses from elsewhere - WIN
2) KLM numbers stabilise, but KLM are not making enough money and pull the plug when they want or when any contract expires. - LOSE
3) KLM numbers stabilise, KLM are making enough money but Peel can't subsidise from elsewhere - i.e. the plan fails. - LOSE
4) KLM numbers continue to fall beyond which is acceptable to them and they pull the plug when they can - LOSE.
3 out of those 4 outcomes result in the end of passenger operations at some point in the near future. The one that doesn't means:
1) The current trend on KLM passenger numbers has to STOP.
2) Peel have to successfully deliver on a promise with a zero per cent success rate so far.
All this adds up to the real likelihood that passenger operations will stop in the next 18 months. Continuing is possible....but the chances are becoming smaller as each month passes.
On a side note, I have information from a reliable source that tells me "KLM remain committed to the airport and have no plans to pull out, but cannot understand the direction the aiport are taking adding - if they can do that to Thomson, they can do it to us".
Interesting, if sad, times.
1) DTV Airport is right - they are losing money on charter flights and decided to stem the losses by cutting them.
2) The losses on a charter flight though can't be any more (materially) than the losses on the KLM/Eastern flights. There would be huge public outctry if Peel kicked out KLM and there could be a KLM contract in place which prevents Peel from doing that. I am in no doubt though that Peel loses money on KLM and Eastern but instead of cutting these to save money they are trying to subsidise them by making money elsewhere.
I make my assumption on (2) not knowing what fees the airport get from the landing and departing aircraft, but I would claim that those typically business passengers will spend a lot less discretional expenditure within the airport campus.
So, we are now in a waiting game as to passenger operations. None of us know the amount of money KLM makes on our flights. However, we do know that rolling passenger numbers have fallen in each of the last 12 months and the recent PR isn't likely to help. This could lead to 4 outcomes:
1) KLM numbers stabilise, KLM are making enough money and Peel can subsidise the losses from elsewhere - WIN
2) KLM numbers stabilise, but KLM are not making enough money and pull the plug when they want or when any contract expires. - LOSE
3) KLM numbers stabilise, KLM are making enough money but Peel can't subsidise from elsewhere - i.e. the plan fails. - LOSE
4) KLM numbers continue to fall beyond which is acceptable to them and they pull the plug when they can - LOSE.
3 out of those 4 outcomes result in the end of passenger operations at some point in the near future. The one that doesn't means:
1) The current trend on KLM passenger numbers has to STOP.
2) Peel have to successfully deliver on a promise with a zero per cent success rate so far.
All this adds up to the real likelihood that passenger operations will stop in the next 18 months. Continuing is possible....but the chances are becoming smaller as each month passes.
On a side note, I have information from a reliable source that tells me "KLM remain committed to the airport and have no plans to pull out, but cannot understand the direction the aiport are taking adding - if they can do that to Thomson, they can do it to us".
Interesting, if sad, times.
Last edited by P330; 11th Dec 2013 at 12:39.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England, UK
Age: 60
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reference the Police hangar, they're waiting for the foundations to set, apparently they have to be rock solid and it takes a good few days.
Regarding the master plan, my understanding is the first thing to be built will be one of the hangars for AVIATION use, adjacent to the terminal, with it's intended purpose being for Weston and their bizjets.
Regarding the master plan, my understanding is the first thing to be built will be one of the hangars for AVIATION use, adjacent to the terminal, with it's intended purpose being for Weston and their bizjets.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 35
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not familiar with all of the details, but the cutting of charter flights was something to do with staffing levels, to handle that one charter flight per week I think the number of staff required was triple that of KLM/Eastern/Flybe, but, for whatever reason, the staffing levels required for the Thomson flight had to remain at that level all of the time.
There's people on here that should be able to explain it better and I think it may be in the master plan.
There's people on here that should be able to explain it better and I think it may be in the master plan.
DTV a nice little airport that have used on a couple of occasions but big question is at what level do PAX numbers have to drop to where better just to shut the doors ?
Has management decided a base line number ?
The opening a new Duty free shop..............its just shop in an airport unless you travelling external EU and believe that is limited.
Has management decided a base line number ?
The opening a new Duty free shop..............its just shop in an airport unless you travelling external EU and believe that is limited.