OXFORD/KIDLINGTON
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mansfield, UK
Age: 43
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a booked passenger I had an email from them this morning:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Minoan Air announces the termination of Edinburgh and Dublin services from the 5th of August 2013.
All fares will be refunded by automatic transfer to your credit card account used for the payment.
The refund procedure is already in progress so it is not mandatory to contact our reservations department.
However, if you have any enquiries please send us an e-mail at [email protected].
Please, accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience we have caused to your travel plans.
Yours sincerely,
Call Centre
[email protected]
My refund came a couple of weeks ago without me even requesting it, must say I'm very happy with their communication on the matter. Just a shame that I've missed out on the F50
Dear Sir/Madam,
Minoan Air announces the termination of Edinburgh and Dublin services from the 5th of August 2013.
All fares will be refunded by automatic transfer to your credit card account used for the payment.
The refund procedure is already in progress so it is not mandatory to contact our reservations department.
However, if you have any enquiries please send us an e-mail at [email protected].
Please, accept our sincere apologies for the inconvenience we have caused to your travel plans.
Yours sincerely,
Call Centre
[email protected]
My refund came a couple of weeks ago without me even requesting it, must say I'm very happy with their communication on the matter. Just a shame that I've missed out on the F50
Minoan Air Oxford/Kidlington termination
The Minoan Air site says this:
Quote
Termination of Oxford Schedule on 4th August 2013
After 5 months of faultless services, 99.75% punctuality, nearly 500 flights, more than 6.000 carried passengers and well over one million pounds that were invested in the operation, Minoan regrets to announce the termination of its schedule services from Oxford to Edinburgh and Dublin, due to our disagreement with Oxford Airport management on specific terms of cooperation deemed imperative for the viability of our flights.
Following the fall out of our discussions, the airport had been given advance notice of our intentions thus allowing adequate time to explore all avenues to replace the carrier with another operator.
Unquote
6,000 pax divided by 500 flights gives a pretty dismal 12 pax/flight, about the same number on an Edinburgh - Oxford flight we took at the end of May. Did Minoan ever advertise?
Quote
Termination of Oxford Schedule on 4th August 2013
After 5 months of faultless services, 99.75% punctuality, nearly 500 flights, more than 6.000 carried passengers and well over one million pounds that were invested in the operation, Minoan regrets to announce the termination of its schedule services from Oxford to Edinburgh and Dublin, due to our disagreement with Oxford Airport management on specific terms of cooperation deemed imperative for the viability of our flights.
Following the fall out of our discussions, the airport had been given advance notice of our intentions thus allowing adequate time to explore all avenues to replace the carrier with another operator.
Unquote
6,000 pax divided by 500 flights gives a pretty dismal 12 pax/flight, about the same number on an Edinburgh - Oxford flight we took at the end of May. Did Minoan ever advertise?
Phileas - we're talking about a 46-seat aircraft flying once per week for 18 weekends over the summer. Assuming everyone does a return rather than just one-ways, that gives a maximum of about 1,600 passengers for the whole summer.
In summer 2011 when the economy was a little weaker, the route managed 1,489 charter passengers. In summer 2012, Citywing on the route managed 3,590 scheduled passengers
Oxford-Jersey is being attempted on a very modest basis. There really isn't a need to be quite so negative about something quite so small.
In summer 2011 when the economy was a little weaker, the route managed 1,489 charter passengers. In summer 2012, Citywing on the route managed 3,590 scheduled passengers
Oxford-Jersey is being attempted on a very modest basis. There really isn't a need to be quite so negative about something quite so small.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for "jumping down my throat"!
I presume the figures quoted of previous operations were achieved utilising smaller equipments on a more regular basis.
Take the NQY operation as an example, a route I know from old, one might easily and regularly transport 120+ passengers a day each way to/from LON but it wouldn't work putting a 120+ seater jet on the route once a day, or indeed a B747 on the route twice a week, the only way those figures may be achieved is by operating 3 or 4 services daily on appropriately sized equipment.
It's an old-fashioned concept that these modern day statisticians, it seems, don't grasp, it's called "operating the services when the travelling public actually want to travel"!.
Now back on to the subject of Kidlington, let it not be missed that they announced once weekly PMI services utilising S2000 equipment in recent years, it never got going.
Even more ridiculous than that was their announcement of NYC Xmas shopping charters from/to Kidlington and as for the short lived EDI and DUB services, well the less said about them the better.
The problem is, and shall always be, trying to round up enough punters if the equipment is oversized for the catchment area so what catchment area does Kidligton actually have?
Just down the M40 is the world's busiest airport, move more than just a little eastbound and one falls within LTN's catchment area, move north then BHX's catchment area, south then down the A34 for a host of C.I. services from SOU, south-west then BRS and west then Staverton, who it seems, agree with my belief that smaller equipments need to be utilsed more of the time to make such a route viable.
The problem will be that Kidlingtom are trying to fill 46 seats at 8 o'clock on a Saturday morning and from a very limited catchment area, I suggest that, at best, the operation will struggle but then what do I know, I'm just a troll ... apparently
I presume the figures quoted of previous operations were achieved utilising smaller equipments on a more regular basis.
Take the NQY operation as an example, a route I know from old, one might easily and regularly transport 120+ passengers a day each way to/from LON but it wouldn't work putting a 120+ seater jet on the route once a day, or indeed a B747 on the route twice a week, the only way those figures may be achieved is by operating 3 or 4 services daily on appropriately sized equipment.
It's an old-fashioned concept that these modern day statisticians, it seems, don't grasp, it's called "operating the services when the travelling public actually want to travel"!.
Now back on to the subject of Kidlington, let it not be missed that they announced once weekly PMI services utilising S2000 equipment in recent years, it never got going.
Even more ridiculous than that was their announcement of NYC Xmas shopping charters from/to Kidlington and as for the short lived EDI and DUB services, well the less said about them the better.
The problem is, and shall always be, trying to round up enough punters if the equipment is oversized for the catchment area so what catchment area does Kidligton actually have?
Just down the M40 is the world's busiest airport, move more than just a little eastbound and one falls within LTN's catchment area, move north then BHX's catchment area, south then down the A34 for a host of C.I. services from SOU, south-west then BRS and west then Staverton, who it seems, agree with my belief that smaller equipments need to be utilsed more of the time to make such a route viable.
The problem will be that Kidlingtom are trying to fill 46 seats at 8 o'clock on a Saturday morning and from a very limited catchment area, I suggest that, at best, the operation will struggle but then what do I know, I'm just a troll ... apparently
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 14th Mar 2014 at 06:37.
I grant you that there are a number of other airports near Oxford. However, Jersey has no flights to either Heathrow or Luton now that Flybe have dropped the LTN-JER route, so Kidlington's catchment area on a Jersey route is not quite as constrained as might initially be imagined, unlike the greater rivalry to EDI or DUB. In June 2013 (i.e. shoulder season), the now closed LTN-JER managed 1,650 pax - in comparison, CI Travel are supplying just 460 seats of capacity for a 5-Saturday month.
If Gloucestershire can support a 2x weekly Fri+Sun Jersey route despite competition from Bristol and Birmingham, then it seem quite likely that Oxford has a fair chance with a 1x weekly ATR-42 charter taking people for 7 or 14 nights holiday.
Remember we're talking about a seasonal 1x weekly puddle jumping prop on summer Saturday to a leisure-centric destination run by a well-established Jersey tourism operator - somewhat lower risk than a daily operation from a carrier with no local brand recognition.
If Gloucestershire can support a 2x weekly Fri+Sun Jersey route despite competition from Bristol and Birmingham, then it seem quite likely that Oxford has a fair chance with a 1x weekly ATR-42 charter taking people for 7 or 14 nights holiday.
Remember we're talking about a seasonal 1x weekly puddle jumping prop on summer Saturday to a leisure-centric destination run by a well-established Jersey tourism operator - somewhat lower risk than a daily operation from a carrier with no local brand recognition.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 13th Mar 2014 at 02:49.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Regrettably far from 50°N
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phileas, I'm often inclined to agree with you but on this occasion you might be barking up the wrong tree a bit. As davidjohnson6 points out this has a maximum capacity of 1600 over an entire summer - once a week on a 46 seat ATR 42 not being what one might call a high volume operation! Take your point on timings, but the fact is it has worked before on a very similar basis. Similar flights to JER from a seemingly bewildering array of regional airports (like Gloucestershire as discussed but also Cambridge, Humberside and others) which are operated on an almost identical basis (seasonal, Saturday-only) except sometimes using somewhat larger aircraft (78 seat BE DH8Qs). And yet they come back, year-on-year.
Given that this is such a similar operation which has worked in the past, what's the problem?
Given that this is such a similar operation which has worked in the past, what's the problem?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: here
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What use are flights if people don't know about them?
I recall mentioning here last year that I met some people from Swindon and despite being only about 30 miles away from Oxford/Kiddlington none of them knew about the now cancelled scheduled services and only one I think knew there was any sort of airport there.
In theory there is enough money in that area to sustain scheduled services, but if people don't know about them or the airport then there is absolutely no chance.
I recall mentioning here last year that I met some people from Swindon and despite being only about 30 miles away from Oxford/Kiddlington none of them knew about the now cancelled scheduled services and only one I think knew there was any sort of airport there.
In theory there is enough money in that area to sustain scheduled services, but if people don't know about them or the airport then there is absolutely no chance.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aero Mad,
DJ6 talks of 18 weekends and you interpret 18 weekends as an entire summer!
Well it has long been recognised that any summer season starts at Easter (19/20 April this year) thus 18 weekends terminates right in the midst of the school holidays @ 16/17 August!
Stop being a statistician trying to make the numbers look more attractive, the operator are offering a very limited service for a limited period with, for the catchment area, a large aeroplane.
You compare to Staverton, Staverton has a history of scheduled services, crikey back in the 1970's I would be controlling DC3's from the tower at Lyneham of DC3's to/from Staverton and the islands.
You compare to HUY, I worked for Air UK back in the 1980's when every summer Saturday and Sunday we would have Fokker's plodding the islands routes and, for the route still to be going to this day, might be credited that it is a long established route.
Cambridge, something of a chequered history with scheduled services, Suckling etc. but at least it has a history.
Kidlington ... Well it's a flying club come wannabee airport, charters to NYC and all that, I've got better things to do than occupy my time that discuss/ argue this point, I think it is DJ6 that has a habit of posting CAA stats, let's discuss after those have been posted and if I'm wrong I shall gladly hold my hands up.
Best Regards
The Troll
DJ6 talks of 18 weekends and you interpret 18 weekends as an entire summer!
Well it has long been recognised that any summer season starts at Easter (19/20 April this year) thus 18 weekends terminates right in the midst of the school holidays @ 16/17 August!
Stop being a statistician trying to make the numbers look more attractive, the operator are offering a very limited service for a limited period with, for the catchment area, a large aeroplane.
You compare to Staverton, Staverton has a history of scheduled services, crikey back in the 1970's I would be controlling DC3's from the tower at Lyneham of DC3's to/from Staverton and the islands.
You compare to HUY, I worked for Air UK back in the 1980's when every summer Saturday and Sunday we would have Fokker's plodding the islands routes and, for the route still to be going to this day, might be credited that it is a long established route.
Cambridge, something of a chequered history with scheduled services, Suckling etc. but at least it has a history.
Kidlington ... Well it's a flying club come wannabee airport, charters to NYC and all that, I've got better things to do than occupy my time that discuss/ argue this point, I think it is DJ6 that has a habit of posting CAA stats, let's discuss after those have been posted and if I'm wrong I shall gladly hold my hands up.
Best Regards
The Troll
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take the NQY operation as an example, a route I know from old, one might easily and regularly transport 120+ passengers a day each way to/from LON but it wouldn't work putting a 120+ seater jet on the route once a day, or indeed a B747 on the route twice a week, the only way those figures may be achieved is by operating 3 or 4 services daily on appropriately sized equipment.
Minoan were doomed doing OXF-DUB and OXF-EDI, especially without advertising, because they were up against neighbouring airports doing those routes with way more frequency.
JER may be another matter entirely.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA route stats for OXF - Annual 2013
The CAA has today released the full confirmed route stats for the UK's airports for the year 2013 .... the OXF figures are as follows:
EDINBURGH 4,061
DUBLIN 2,174
ISLE OF MAN 133
BASLE MULHOUSE 92
JERSEY 92
MAASTRICHT 72
LUTON 23
PARIS (LE BOURGET) 18
TOTAL 6,665
EDINBURGH 4,061
DUBLIN 2,174
ISLE OF MAN 133
BASLE MULHOUSE 92
JERSEY 92
MAASTRICHT 72
LUTON 23
PARIS (LE BOURGET) 18
TOTAL 6,665
