NEWCASTLE - 8
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TCX
Also seems that many flights start later and finish earlier in the season.
Could be much worse though.
In general there seems to be less flights to the Canary Islands this coming sumer season compared to last with both TCX and BY.
Could be much worse though.
In general there seems to be less flights to the Canary Islands this coming sumer season compared to last with both TCX and BY.
There is Motorway to the door
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With regards the BRU route, and it's future after the sale of BMI regional is complete. It seems that SNBA have taken on lease at least 1 DHC8-400 from Tyroleon, I wonder if this is them evaluating the type for potential use on it's UK routes currently operated by BMIR to EDI, BRS and NCL?
As for TCX, good to still see a 4 a/c base
As for TCX, good to still see a 4 a/c base
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Poor rail links from East Teeside (M'bro/Stockton) - A19/A1 links congested at peak times. - No dedicated Airport coach service.
My point is if DTV were to close (and this seems more likely: Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo) then improved links will both serve the people of Teeside in faster and comfortable travel to their nearest Airport in Newcastle, and serve Newcastle in attacting more routtes having a wider catchment area. The alternative Airport being Leeds Bradford which is further afield and unreliable in poor adverse weather.
My point is if DTV were to close (and this seems more likely: Durham Tees Valley Airport (From The Northern Echo) then improved links will both serve the people of Teeside in faster and comfortable travel to their nearest Airport in Newcastle, and serve Newcastle in attacting more routtes having a wider catchment area. The alternative Airport being Leeds Bradford which is further afield and unreliable in poor adverse weather.
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andrewmcharlton
Not quite correct, :-
New York is not going to happen FULL STOP !
+
..Frankfurt is desirable but has slot limitations...Yeh!, Yeh!, Yeh!!! really? & do you think that if an airline came calling to FRA offering further destinations in say China, they would be fobbed off with "slot limitations", this is the standard convenient excuse
(load of b
cks) which would no doubt exist even if FRA opened a further dozen new runways!
The reality is that ecconomic conditions in the North East and the spin off on living standards & disposable income are always going to be refelected in destinations & service levels offered when dealing with airlines becoming ever more risk averse.
As for forecasts then I learned many years ago the folly of relying on forecasts, which depending on source & views of the forecaster (political
, or otherwise) can be very subjective indeed.
NCL has I fear got to live with the fact that days of annual pax figures of 5M+ are gone, & it would be a folly to forecast otherwise. Comparing with other airports such as EMA is irrelevant as what you are looking at outside London is demographic movement of pax switching from other airports as much as any actual growth in the region.
As sad as it may be the deteriorating position at DTV offers no remission to NCL, those pax having necessarily made alternate arrangements years since.
New York is not going to happen anytime soon and Frankfurt is desirable but has slot limitations according to my mate at Lufthansa.
New York is not going to happen FULL STOP !
+..Frankfurt is desirable but has slot limitations...Yeh!, Yeh!, Yeh!!! really? & do you think that if an airline came calling to FRA offering further destinations in say China, they would be fobbed off with "slot limitations", this is the standard convenient excuse
(load of bcks) which would no doubt exist even if FRA opened a further dozen new runways!The reality is that ecconomic conditions in the North East and the spin off on living standards & disposable income are always going to be refelected in destinations & service levels offered when dealing with airlines becoming ever more risk averse.
As for forecasts then I learned many years ago the folly of relying on forecasts, which depending on source & views of the forecaster (political
, or otherwise) can be very subjective indeed.NCL has I fear got to live with the fact that days of annual pax figures of 5M+ are gone, & it would be a folly to forecast otherwise. Comparing with other airports such as EMA is irrelevant as what you are looking at outside London is demographic movement of pax switching from other airports as much as any actual growth in the region.
As sad as it may be the deteriorating position at DTV offers no remission to NCL, those pax having necessarily made alternate arrangements years since.
FRA slots argument loses a bit of credibility when LH have recently started an ABZ service - looks like slots are available for flights to regional airports when the money is good enough!
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Too many optimists and spotters on this thread and not enough realists, Skyman and SWBKCB nailed it!
I think Bristol (whom we compared favourably a couple of year ago, and have since left us behind) have got a FRA service (thrice daily I think) and ABZ similar, but NCL has not even a sniff.
Nobody is prepared to take a chance, or prehaps they have done the math and it don't work.
With regard to Air Transat, it seems that Shannon (and Porto) was not initially loaded onto the system only to appear at a later date, only for Exeter and NCL to be canned. I'm wondering if Shannon were a little more proactive and convinced TSC that they were a better bet.
I think VentureGo might have a point. Jon Parkin might have been underhanded, but since he has departed and was replaced we seem to have gone steadily backwards at a greater rate that similar sized airports. I'm sure new owners (if it happens) will have a clear out, starting at the top.
I think Bristol (whom we compared favourably a couple of year ago, and have since left us behind) have got a FRA service (thrice daily I think) and ABZ similar, but NCL has not even a sniff.
Nobody is prepared to take a chance, or prehaps they have done the math and it don't work.
With regard to Air Transat, it seems that Shannon (and Porto) was not initially loaded onto the system only to appear at a later date, only for Exeter and NCL to be canned. I'm wondering if Shannon were a little more proactive and convinced TSC that they were a better bet.
Maybe time the Board looked at their performance?
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So it may not technically be a "motorway" to the door of the airport. Not a prayer that the Western Bypass will be upgraded to assist the airport and apart from peak rush hour it's hardly the end of the world having some traffic issues. Folks seem to think they have some divine right to the smoothest journey in history.
A quick check on Trainline shows a train almost every 30 minutes from Middlesbrough to Newcastle tomorrow as an example. How often are you wanting?
There are way too many airports in this country which are too close together and it seems every feels they should have all facilities right on their doorstep.
Poor rail links from East Teesside (M'bro/Stockton)
There are way too many airports in this country which are too close together and it seems every feels they should have all facilities right on their doorstep.
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just to pick up on Newcastle and its transports issues, Newcastle is possibly one of the best regional airports in the country to get to. While its not a motorway the A696 is dual carriageway all the way from the A1 to the airport car parks. We also have a fairly decent bus service to the airport and the Metro service is excellent in my opinion as this links directly into the main rail network. Compare this to the likes of Bristol, Edinburgh, Leeds, Belfast who all have public transport links far worse than that of Newcastle but are experiencing better growth.
As for traffic congestion then again we have airports that are again in a worse position than that of Newcastle. I have just spent most of December working at Manchester Airport and I can speak from personal experience that the traffic problems I experienced every day were for worse than I have ever known getting to Newcastle airport. The M60 ring road especially as it goes past the Trafford Centre had huge tailbacks every day.
As for traffic congestion then again we have airports that are again in a worse position than that of Newcastle. I have just spent most of December working at Manchester Airport and I can speak from personal experience that the traffic problems I experienced every day were for worse than I have ever known getting to Newcastle airport. The M60 ring road especially as it goes past the Trafford Centre had huge tailbacks every day.
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Skyman771 - I think your slightly inaccurate in your assumption that the routes are determined by the living standards and disposable income of folks living in the NE. The statistical data used by aviation analysts when analysing possible new routes actually reflects the opposite, of those in full time employment the disposable income of people in the NE is in many cases far higher than that of many other parts in the country.
I think that the factor that most influences routes which are operated from NCL has more to do with the fact that as a region we have a smallish population and a couple of years ago when NCL achieved much higher passenger figures we did very well in getting folks from the South East Scotland. However once management at Edinburgh got their act together and routes developed these passengers went North to Edinburgh rather than South to Newcastle. The decline in numbers does roughly match the increase to the North of us.
The simple fact remains that as a small nation we have two many airports
On the subject of New York, I personally believe that management at NCL are far to pre-occupied with getting this route. Mr Mason and Mr Laws do at every interview now 'bang on' about how this route remains the airports number 1 target. It does sometimes make me wonder if NCL Managements time would be better spent chasing more realistic opportunities. As a region we need better business links to cites in Germany especially as Germany appears to be going to further secure its position as the economic and political powerhouse of Eurpoe. Data suggests that certainly Frankfurt is one destination that many businesses want and indeed think we need.
I think that the factor that most influences routes which are operated from NCL has more to do with the fact that as a region we have a smallish population and a couple of years ago when NCL achieved much higher passenger figures we did very well in getting folks from the South East Scotland. However once management at Edinburgh got their act together and routes developed these passengers went North to Edinburgh rather than South to Newcastle. The decline in numbers does roughly match the increase to the North of us.
The simple fact remains that as a small nation we have two many airports
On the subject of New York, I personally believe that management at NCL are far to pre-occupied with getting this route. Mr Mason and Mr Laws do at every interview now 'bang on' about how this route remains the airports number 1 target. It does sometimes make me wonder if NCL Managements time would be better spent chasing more realistic opportunities. As a region we need better business links to cites in Germany especially as Germany appears to be going to further secure its position as the economic and political powerhouse of Eurpoe. Data suggests that certainly Frankfurt is one destination that many businesses want and indeed think we need.
Last edited by ncleflights; 6th Jan 2012 at 23:19.
Spot on Ncleflights re routes, impact of EDI etc. Getting back to the transport issues, I deliberately used the word 'perception' in earlier post re the Western By Pass - talk to anybody south of the river or read any of the comments on the possible closer of MME and having to use NCL instead, and that is what they think.
Probably not helped by the local media who bang on about how bad it is to try and stir up support for investment - bit of a double edged sword. I'm sure I've seen it quoted as being the most congested section of road outside the south east which seems to be a bit of an exaggeration...
Probably not helped by the local media who bang on about how bad it is to try and stir up support for investment - bit of a double edged sword. I'm sure I've seen it quoted as being the most congested section of road outside the south east which seems to be a bit of an exaggeration...
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ncleflights, it is not I who is "slightly" inaccurate, moreso that you are "slightly" too pedantic. Statistics can easily be misrepresented. You choose to refer only to those that are only in full time employment, thus excluding all others...
Totally endorse your point re EDI, which draws to attention that in NCL's case they have suffered a demograpghic shift of pax back over the scottish border.
Where to now? my view is also that perhaps too much attention has been expended on NYC, and that in Jet2 as opposed to EZY / RYR then time may show that perhaps NCL has backed the "wrong horse!".
Totally endorse your point re EDI, which draws to attention that in NCL's case they have suffered a demograpghic shift of pax back over the scottish border.
Where to now? my view is also that perhaps too much attention has been expended on NYC, and that in Jet2 as opposed to EZY / RYR then time may show that perhaps NCL has backed the "wrong horse!".
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Interesting observations Skyman, I always thought that with more flights offered from EDI by Easyjet etc, that would have an impact on NCL traffic.
Where to go from here? Concentrate less on NYC and more on European city destinations i.e. FRA and perhaps scandinavia ie. SAS/Norwegian. Try to get EZY to rebase aircraft. Jet2 seems to concentrate on the bucket and spade market and keeps adding destinations. New airlines would be a plus.
Flybe and Eastern seem to be in standstill mode at NCL
Where to go from here? Concentrate less on NYC and more on European city destinations i.e. FRA and perhaps scandinavia ie. SAS/Norwegian. Try to get EZY to rebase aircraft. Jet2 seems to concentrate on the bucket and spade market and keeps adding destinations. New airlines would be a plus.
Flybe and Eastern seem to be in standstill mode at NCL
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However once management at Edinburgh got their act together and routes developed these passengers went North to Edinburgh rather than South to Newcastle. The decline in numbers does roughly match the increase to the North of us.
But GLA has also seen the same decline to roughly match
But GLA has also seen the same decline to roughly match
Brunel to Concorde
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NCL and peer airports
There has been some comment in this thread recently about NCL's performance in terms of passenger numbers compared with peer airports in recent years.
A look at those airports in the range 4-6 mppa shows that NCL has performed in broadly similar fashion to EMA and BFS in the past six years though not as well as LPL and BRS who have remained almost flat.
I've also added LBA to the group albeit its passenger numbers fall below the 4-6 mppa range and EDI and GLA who are above the range.
EDI has remained largely flat whilst GLA has seen continuous annual falls until this year.
The difference between the better performing (or perhaps less worse might be a better description) airports and those that haven't done so well lies in the number of passengers lost in the recession rather than any significant growth.
Below are shown the mppa figures for the above airports in the years beginning 2006 and ending with 2011, though the 2011 figures are estimates based on the most recent CAA data available.
NCL 5.4, 5.6, 5.0, 4.6, 4.3, 4.3
BRS 5.7, 5.9, 6.2, 5.6, 5.7, 5.7
EMA 4.7, 5.4, 5.6, 4.6, 4.1, 4.2
BFS 5.0, 5.2, 5.2, 4.5, 4.0, 4.1
LPL 5.0, 5.5, 5.3, 4.9, 5.0, 5.2
LBA 2.8, 2.9, 2.8, 2.5, 2.7, 2.9
EDI 8.6, 9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 8.6, 9.3
GLA 8.8, 8.7, 8.0, 7.2, 6.5, 6.8
A look at those airports in the range 4-6 mppa shows that NCL has performed in broadly similar fashion to EMA and BFS in the past six years though not as well as LPL and BRS who have remained almost flat.
I've also added LBA to the group albeit its passenger numbers fall below the 4-6 mppa range and EDI and GLA who are above the range.
EDI has remained largely flat whilst GLA has seen continuous annual falls until this year.
The difference between the better performing (or perhaps less worse might be a better description) airports and those that haven't done so well lies in the number of passengers lost in the recession rather than any significant growth.
Below are shown the mppa figures for the above airports in the years beginning 2006 and ending with 2011, though the 2011 figures are estimates based on the most recent CAA data available.
NCL 5.4, 5.6, 5.0, 4.6, 4.3, 4.3
BRS 5.7, 5.9, 6.2, 5.6, 5.7, 5.7
EMA 4.7, 5.4, 5.6, 4.6, 4.1, 4.2
BFS 5.0, 5.2, 5.2, 4.5, 4.0, 4.1
LPL 5.0, 5.5, 5.3, 4.9, 5.0, 5.2
LBA 2.8, 2.9, 2.8, 2.5, 2.7, 2.9
EDI 8.6, 9.0, 9.0, 9.0, 8.6, 9.3
GLA 8.8, 8.7, 8.0, 7.2, 6.5, 6.8
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Toronto
Curious to see a press ad in Fridays Evening Chronicle advertising flights from NCL to Toronto with Canadian Affair. The ad was by Canadian Affair not a travel agent. Perhaps they forgot to cancel it, or is the route still flying.
Flybe,
They seem to be cutting back on LGW with only 2 flights on Mondays (of all days) for the next few weeks or so. In addition Southampton also down to twice daily most days until summer starts. Far cry from when Eastern were competing on SOU when it was about 8 or so daily.
Flybe,
They seem to be cutting back on LGW with only 2 flights on Mondays (of all days) for the next few weeks or so. In addition Southampton also down to twice daily most days until summer starts. Far cry from when Eastern were competing on SOU when it was about 8 or so daily.
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MerchantVenturer, you can add even larger British airports like LGW, MAN and STN that follow the same trend as NCL (a national trend). The really odd British airports are LHR, EDI and partly BRS.
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dont think Canadian affair know if theyre coming or going. Being offered as Air Transat A330 "with Club Class" on a dummy booking, then A310 once weekly on the timetable section and now TCX being thown in the mix. Thought they were cutting longhaul significantly. No wonder people are confused.
Last edited by CabinCrewe; 9th Jan 2012 at 12:58.