MANCHESTER - 7
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: liverpool
Age: 40
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"so take your tincan airline to the tincan airport (liverpool) hope your happy together!!!!"
Why you feel the need to slag off liverpool airport is beyond me???lpl and man are 2 completely different airfields, catering to different needs off different airlines, the fact that man airport is falling apart at the seems in certain areas, and yes I do know this as fact as having seen it for my own eyes both as a pax and as operating crew leads me to believe that maybe its your precious man that is the 'tincan' airport as you put it.
FR will be back at man eventually they did the same thing at bhx a few years ago,hasnt stopped them opening a base there now.
Im not getting into a debate over which is the better airport, I just fail to see the need to slag off lpl!!!!
I know which airport I prefer to fly from anyway.......
Why you feel the need to slag off liverpool airport is beyond me???lpl and man are 2 completely different airfields, catering to different needs off different airlines, the fact that man airport is falling apart at the seems in certain areas, and yes I do know this as fact as having seen it for my own eyes both as a pax and as operating crew leads me to believe that maybe its your precious man that is the 'tincan' airport as you put it.
FR will be back at man eventually they did the same thing at bhx a few years ago,hasnt stopped them opening a base there now.
Im not getting into a debate over which is the better airport, I just fail to see the need to slag off lpl!!!!
I know which airport I prefer to fly from anyway.......
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 51
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EZYA319 you are quite right, MAN and LPL and completely different animals, and both have a role to play, and both have a place in the market. Tinpot is neither MAN or LPL...RYR though I'm not so sure !
Talking about RYR, whilst sat around the pool in Palma Nova this afternoon, just hours before flying home back to my beloved MAN, and over the famous Cheadle End with a game in progress (we lost!) I sussed the whole RYR/MAN saga...
Here goes...
Load factors have been encouraging from MAN for RYR and they wanted more...
They actually applied for numerous new slots (fact), for numerous new routes (fact) with new based a/c (guess), but with this they expected (demanded) a better deal.
Initially MAG didn't play ball, and the first battle of the war resulted in RYR firing a warning shot across MAG bows, which was shifting MAN-Shannon to LPL, which missed - as MAG still didn't change it's pricing policy.
So RYR brought in the threat of local thermonuclear war and threated to go to LBA instead...."off you trot then if you won't pay our fair prices" said MAG.
MOL, by this time fuming, thinks sodya and announced LBA base, a spiteful 2nd choice, fumes for a week or so at MAG's refusal to accept his expansion plans, and in a childish backlash chops all other routes ex MAN, regardless of their success thus far.
Simples
Took me hours that !
Here's a link to another interesting read, seems folk are wising up to the RYR spin machine....
Congratulations! Manchester Airport says no to Ryanair
Anyway cheers to the MON crew for the lift home
Talking about RYR, whilst sat around the pool in Palma Nova this afternoon, just hours before flying home back to my beloved MAN, and over the famous Cheadle End with a game in progress (we lost!) I sussed the whole RYR/MAN saga...
Here goes...
Load factors have been encouraging from MAN for RYR and they wanted more...
They actually applied for numerous new slots (fact), for numerous new routes (fact) with new based a/c (guess), but with this they expected (demanded) a better deal.
Initially MAG didn't play ball, and the first battle of the war resulted in RYR firing a warning shot across MAG bows, which was shifting MAN-Shannon to LPL, which missed - as MAG still didn't change it's pricing policy.
So RYR brought in the threat of local thermonuclear war and threated to go to LBA instead...."off you trot then if you won't pay our fair prices" said MAG.
MOL, by this time fuming, thinks sodya and announced LBA base, a spiteful 2nd choice, fumes for a week or so at MAG's refusal to accept his expansion plans, and in a childish backlash chops all other routes ex MAN, regardless of their success thus far.
Simples
Took me hours that !
Here's a link to another interesting read, seems folk are wising up to the RYR spin machine....
Congratulations! Manchester Airport says no to Ryanair
Anyway cheers to the MON crew for the lift home
Join Date: May 2007
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I guess the pay cuts on MAN security personnel not so long ago was for the "greater good". What goes around comes around.
Also, some posts on the LPL vs MAN have become very juvenile.
Just my opinion.
PS: Last time I used T2 there was no Black puding for breakfast.
Regards conflier.
Also, some posts on the LPL vs MAN have become very juvenile.
Just my opinion.
PS: Last time I used T2 there was no Black puding for breakfast.
Regards conflier.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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Originally Posted by conflier
PS: Last time I used T2 there was no Black puding for breakfast
Times are tight - so are some management waistlines
CSA
Can't say I'm surprised at this one. From 3 x a day to just one.
My mate lives in Prague & he has booked loadsa flights with Wizzair to Liverpool at £25- £50 return inc tax. Tax alone at CSA came to £86 return.
We still have Baby, but with times designed for stag parties. I tend to use Swiss at there are several options on departure time. Sad, but not unexpected..............maybe one for EZY in the future?
My mate lives in Prague & he has booked loadsa flights with Wizzair to Liverpool at £25- £50 return inc tax. Tax alone at CSA came to £86 return.
We still have Baby, but with times designed for stag parties. I tend to use Swiss at there are several options on departure time. Sad, but not unexpected..............maybe one for EZY in the future?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
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Lo-Cos vs. High costs
Further to my post #1491 - MAN as a mature busy airport knows about the high cost of infrastructure. By way of illustration it costs approximately £600k to rebuild (not build from scratch) just 100 metres of worn out concrete taxiway, plus the cost of taxiway ground lighting renewals. MAN is currently in the process of re-building several kilometres of taxiways, and then re-furbishing 05L-23R at a cost in excess of £20M. How many Ryanair pax at £3 a head is that? Then there is a new ILS, new standby control tower, new HV ring main, and that's just the airfield. And no, Mr O'L - these are not gold plated excesses but essential facilities to keep the airport open for your flights. Fine in Spain, Germany etc where the government owns and pays for everything. Not here in UK.
Regional airports doing deals with lo-cos beware - when you need to rebuild or expand where is the money coming from? Or are you expecting to pass the hat around.
Regional airports doing deals with lo-cos beware - when you need to rebuild or expand where is the money coming from? Or are you expecting to pass the hat around.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
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MAN as a mature busy airport knows about the high cost of infrastructure. By way of illustration it costs approximately £600k to rebuild (not build from scratch) just 100 metres of worn out concrete taxiway, plus the cost of taxiway ground lighting renewals. MAN is currently in the process of re-building several kilometres of taxiways, and then re-furbishing 05L-23R at a cost in excess of £20M.
...point taken, but why also invest in HUY, BOH etc, how much have these ridiculous investments which are not core to Manchester and its NWest shareholders actually cost ?
If they have made a profit they should now be paying a divident BACK to the host. I suspect they have however, made a loss and are being subsidised, which is why Manchester is now in a mess.
The improvements listed should have been completed years ago....there is now a massive shopping list of "actual airfield improvements" because of the lack of investment in previous years.
There have been limited funds but suspect this was santioned based on ROI via retail. Safety doesn't bring profit.
It MAG were a football team its manager and coaching staff would have been sacked by now !
...point taken, but why also invest in HUY, BOH etc, how much have these ridiculous investments which are not core to Manchester and its NWest shareholders actually cost ?
If they have made a profit they should now be paying a divident BACK to the host. I suspect they have however, made a loss and are being subsidised, which is why Manchester is now in a mess.
The improvements listed should have been completed years ago....there is now a massive shopping list of "actual airfield improvements" because of the lack of investment in previous years.
There have been limited funds but suspect this was santioned based on ROI via retail. Safety doesn't bring profit.
It MAG were a football team its manager and coaching staff would have been sacked by now !
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Roverman
"Then there is a new ILS, new standby control tower,"
That's the first I have seen mentioned of a new stanby control tower - would you care to enlighten us a little more? I presume this will replace the emergency control caravan - and is instead of the originally planned new all singing tower?
Many thanks
Scottie Dog
That's the first I have seen mentioned of a new stanby control tower - would you care to enlighten us a little more? I presume this will replace the emergency control caravan - and is instead of the originally planned new all singing tower?
Many thanks
Scottie Dog
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
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Regional airports doing deals with lo-cos beware - when you need to rebuild or expand where is the money coming from? Or are you expecting to pass the hat around.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ireland
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Further to my post #1491 - MAN as a mature busy airport knows about the high cost of infrastructure. By way of illustration it costs approximately £600k to rebuild (not build from scratch) just 100 metres of worn out concrete taxiway, plus the cost of taxiway ground lighting renewals. MAN is currently in the process of re-building several kilometres of taxiways, and then re-furbishing 05L-23R at a cost in excess of £20M. How many Ryanair pax at £3 a head is that? Then there is a new ILS, new standby control tower, new HV ring main, and that's just the airfield. And no, Mr O'L - these are not gold plated excesses but essential facilities to keep the airport open for your flights. Fine in Spain, Germany etc where the government owns and pays for everything. Not here in UK.
Manchester's overall income for this period was £272m. Interestingly they don't give a breakdown by airport but only 48% of the overall group's income (£371m) came from 'aviation income' with the remaining 52% made up of baggage handling, car parking, property related income, etc.
Where I'm going is that Manchester Airport choosing to have Ryanair as a customer or not is much more complex than talking about the cost of infrastructure or even this misconstrued idea that all airlines will have to be charged the same. If we had an impartial observer (pretty much impossible to find when Ryanair are involved!) look at the Manchester situation right now, I'm almost certain they would say that it would make good business sense to have Ryanair as a customer.
One reason is exactly because of the high cost of infrastructure! It's in the best interests of any capital intensive business to 'sweat' it's assets, the runway, terminal, etc. still have to be maintained whether they have Ryanair as a customer or not. Another reason is numbers - increased passenger numbers provide increased revenue opportunities, they provide increased footfall stats in terms of commercial unit rental, advertising rates, etc.
On the assumption that the airport is not operating at full capacity, what it boils down to is whether MAG feel they have the ability to manage Ryanair as a marginal customer at Manchester in an effective manner, with standard or 'full fare' and perhaps charter airlines being their main business - if they can it's good for business, if they fail then it's quite likely the business will actually suffer overall. Good management would involve reducing passenger fees to utilise underused ramps, etc. in return for guaranteed passenger numbers - this would only suit Ryanair's business model. Also, only allow routes that will have marginal or no impact on current passengers - perhaps surprisingly, a significant number of airports served by Ryanair are not competing with larger airports actually 'in' the named destination! Forget Frankfurt (Hahn), Brussels (Charleroi), etc. and think of airports not served from Manchester such as Porto, Seville, Tampere, Krakow, etc., etc.
Sorry, long post!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Bottom line is Ryanair wasn't worth the candle. There are other options without allowing Pikey Air to fly for free whilst making sure you remember to take the cross subsidy from your other customers.
Such glowing examples include Shannon where MOL has them by the balls and Prestwick where er....MOL has them by the balls.
Such glowing examples include Shannon where MOL has them by the balls and Prestwick where er....MOL has them by the balls.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Bottom line is Ryanair wasn't worth the candle.
There are other options without allowing Pikey Air to fly for free whilst making sure you remember to take the cross subsidy from your other customers.
Such glowing examples include Shannon where MOL has them by the balls and Prestwick where er....MOL has them by the balls.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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...point taken, but why also invest in HUY, BOH etc, how much have these ridiculous investments which are not core to Manchester and its NWest shareholders actually cost ?
And for you information Bournemouth was given free to Manchester by National Express when they bought East Mids.
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Most posts have focussed on MAN's decision not to deal with RYR. However, little analysis of RYR's motivation. For example would it affect their load factor if their ticket prices from MAN were £3 more expensive than elsewhere? Or even £5? Can they make more money by offering flights from the airports overlapping MAN's catchment area or is the profit maximising position to operate from MAN despite higher costs?
A good illustration of this is the hypothetical situation of RYR offering an identical network from MAN, LPL, LBA and EMA with MAN prices £3 higher.
I believe it a relatively straight forward conclusion that MAN would be the optimum base due to proximity of denser populations and ease of access from further afield.
Therefore, it is RYR rather than MAN that is acting against the interests of the markets, shareholders and consumers.
Personally, I would like to see RYR back at MAN sooner rather than later.
A good illustration of this is the hypothetical situation of RYR offering an identical network from MAN, LPL, LBA and EMA with MAN prices £3 higher.
I believe it a relatively straight forward conclusion that MAN would be the optimum base due to proximity of denser populations and ease of access from further afield.
Therefore, it is RYR rather than MAN that is acting against the interests of the markets, shareholders and consumers.
Personally, I would like to see RYR back at MAN sooner rather than later.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
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from UK Airport News :-
Manchester Airport in talks to replace Ryanair routes
19.08.09
Manchester Airport is already in talks with other airlines about the possibility of taking over the routes cut by Ryanair earlier this week.
A spokesman for the airport said today that is was confident of replacing the routes axed by Ryanair. He confirmed that the airport is already in talks with other airlines about the possibility of taking over the routes this winter.
Manchester Airport in talks to replace Ryanair routes
19.08.09
Manchester Airport is already in talks with other airlines about the possibility of taking over the routes cut by Ryanair earlier this week.
A spokesman for the airport said today that is was confident of replacing the routes axed by Ryanair. He confirmed that the airport is already in talks with other airlines about the possibility of taking over the routes this winter.