MANCHESTER - 7
I Have Control
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North-West England
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Pity, but...
Sad but not surprising. City boys are thinner on the ground, and less likely to be able to commute on company expenses. And given the time needed from parking to boarding surely makes this route nonsensical. (LCY is much quicker, admittedly).
I hope the airport downturn doesn't accelerate, but expect it will. . I also hope the security army is being down-sized at the same rate while passenger numbers diminish. This unpleasant aspect of the airport experience positively discourages repeat business. As does the tortuous slog through the retail sector in T1..and the delays when taxying on and off stand due to WIP...and the tiny smelly arrivals area after customs in T1..and ....oh forget it.
I used to love Ringway, but MAN is a terrible place to work from. No choice for most of us, sadly.
I hope the airport downturn doesn't accelerate, but expect it will. . I also hope the security army is being down-sized at the same rate while passenger numbers diminish. This unpleasant aspect of the airport experience positively discourages repeat business. As does the tortuous slog through the retail sector in T1..and the delays when taxying on and off stand due to WIP...and the tiny smelly arrivals area after customs in T1..and ....oh forget it.
I used to love Ringway, but MAN is a terrible place to work from. No choice for most of us, sadly.
Pilot of the Airwaves
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Close to the Med
Age: 74
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If they are going to get rid of some security staff, could the travelling public and other staff be asked to vote for who they want shown the door?
I know who I would be voting for.
I know who I would be voting for.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
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Antwerp and Rotterdam are served M-F twice daily, non-stop and these services will not be affected but you are quite right, Luxembourg will not appear on the screens any more.
Lets hope Cityflyer make an appearance! After all, their offices are in Manchester!
Lets hope Cityflyer make an appearance! After all, their offices are in Manchester!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorks
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Airport Personnel
A message for the army of customs/security personnel at man....for christ sake smile ....use some element of pleasant personality and when you leave me sat with no friggin shoes on for 10 minutes have the decency to bring me them back , thank me and not sat there like a fo%%ing criminal.
Manners cost bugger all
We pay your salary or did you forget that
Rant over
Manners cost bugger all
We pay your salary or did you forget that
Rant over
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
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Lets hope Cityflyer make an appearance! After all, their offices are in Manchester!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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What makes you think that routes that lost BA a fortune in the past will be resumed? BA do nothing outside London now as that's the only BA market they can make money in. Even Gatwick is under pressure.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
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Why would we want BA back? We're now well rid of them and their creative accounting schemes for regional ops. Our best hope will be seeing Star Alliance carriers adding routes if we're after getting "frills" airlines here plus a smattering of low fare carriers.
How BA would have coped operating in the regions with a different cost structure and more suitable aircraft is something to contemplate on cold, rainy May evenings.
How BA would have coped operating in the regions with a different cost structure and more suitable aircraft is something to contemplate on cold, rainy May evenings.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
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I am afraid to say that BA is probably the last airline that would make any investment and commitment to operating out of Manchester. They are not called 'London Airways' for nothing! 
Given the (sound commercial) reasons that VLM have given for pulling the MAN-LCY route why would any business, especially in the current economic climate, "take a punt" on the route.
Only in the UK, with it's pathetic high speed rail infrastructure, would such a short route be even considered viable - given that the traffic is point to point with little or no interline prospects. Flying, with all the security issues is now pain in the proverbial, and rail, without all that check-in and security hindrance should surely be the preferred option for city centre to city centre travel over comparatively short distances.
When, or more realistically, if high speed rail is developed properly in the UK then it would be the deathknell for much of the current domestic point to point air travel - as it has become in France, and Germany.
Only in the UK, with it's pathetic high speed rail infrastructure, would such a short route be even considered viable - given that the traffic is point to point with little or no interline prospects. Flying, with all the security issues is now pain in the proverbial, and rail, without all that check-in and security hindrance should surely be the preferred option for city centre to city centre travel over comparatively short distances.
When, or more realistically, if high speed rail is developed properly in the UK then it would be the deathknell for much of the current domestic point to point air travel - as it has become in France, and Germany.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Manchester
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Virgin trains now operate every 20 mins between Manchester and London, also just read the journey has just been cut to 2 hours. Who wants airport security and all that hassle when you can take this?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
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I am all for high speed rail, provided that there is no government money involved in it. VLM allege in part that the subsidies for Virgin Trains plays a reason for the withdrawal - anyone know what the rail fares would be without those in place?
What would happen to rail travel if that mode of transport got targetted and you had to go through airport style check-in and security measures?
What would happen to rail travel if that mode of transport got targetted and you had to go through airport style check-in and security measures?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 58
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Do the railways pay VAT on fuel? If they do then as aircraft fuel doesn't incur VAT charges then that evens things up a bit.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
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Yes, but they they then (like any business) reclaim it.
That means train operators do not pay tax on their fuel. Therefore, they don't pass that cost on to their passengers.
Source : HM Revenue & Customs
Also :
1. Government have subsidised rebuild of West Coast Main Line, to the tune of over £10 billion cash from the Exchequer. That means you have.
2. Virgin and other train operating companies are currently negotiating with Government to postpone or reduce their agreed Franchise Fees. Such delays or reductions will be a form of subsidy by Government - ie you. East Coast Main Line has already publicly confirmed this action.
3. And if you want to travel peak with Virgin between Manchester and London, get a bit of room and comfort by travelling First, and need the flexibility to change your train times, you will pay £384 return for the privilege. Choose Lancaster, and the price is £399. From Preston, it's still £390. Check it out for yourself on Virgin's website.
4. Remove competition from airlines, hand those revenue-driven privatised rail companies a monopoly on fast UK domestic intercity links, and we'll soon see those unregulated rail fares start to climb even higher.
When's the betting for when we see the first £500 return rail ticket between Manchester and London ? Can't be far away, if they're going to balance their books.
Remember : GNER just walked away from their East Coast Main Line franchise. They couldn't balance their books. And their replacement National Express East Coast is already bleating poverty : just Google their name, and check out the recent media coverage.
Oh, and before you start claiming that high speed rail is endlessly less environmentally polluting that air, and moving to high speed rail benefits our fragile environment, check out the official EEA CORINAIR emissions data for such turboprops as VLM's frugal F50s - and note the true environmental impact of high-speed rail from such independent authorities as Belgium's 'Consumer Association, Test Aankoop .
There is plenty of evidence that air really can work out as environmentally friendly as high-speed rail on shorter-haul routes - particularly when you vector in the massive carbon footprint of rebuilding and maintaining that new West Coast Main Line and the other hidden energy burden of operating a high-speed electricity-powered rail lines within the UK and its fossil fuel power station dependence.
That's why the Department for Transport has just revised their advice to travellers on the direct.gov.uk website, and dropped any firm claim that you shouldn't travel by air within the UK. They now say you should consider the alternatives - which is long way back from their original claims that you should not fly. They accept that, in many circumstances, air travel is both justifiable and acceptable.
So, next time the West Coast Main Line is blocked, or Eurostar is discontinued due to an incident in the Tunnel, remember - the UK needs alternatives to get it to work, or to get it home. Now that VLM has pulled off its Manchester link, those alternatives are yet again reduced. That's a sad situation, particularly for the UK's region.
That means train operators do not pay tax on their fuel. Therefore, they don't pass that cost on to their passengers.
Source : HM Revenue & Customs
Also :
1. Government have subsidised rebuild of West Coast Main Line, to the tune of over £10 billion cash from the Exchequer. That means you have.
2. Virgin and other train operating companies are currently negotiating with Government to postpone or reduce their agreed Franchise Fees. Such delays or reductions will be a form of subsidy by Government - ie you. East Coast Main Line has already publicly confirmed this action.
3. And if you want to travel peak with Virgin between Manchester and London, get a bit of room and comfort by travelling First, and need the flexibility to change your train times, you will pay £384 return for the privilege. Choose Lancaster, and the price is £399. From Preston, it's still £390. Check it out for yourself on Virgin's website.
4. Remove competition from airlines, hand those revenue-driven privatised rail companies a monopoly on fast UK domestic intercity links, and we'll soon see those unregulated rail fares start to climb even higher.
When's the betting for when we see the first £500 return rail ticket between Manchester and London ? Can't be far away, if they're going to balance their books.
Remember : GNER just walked away from their East Coast Main Line franchise. They couldn't balance their books. And their replacement National Express East Coast is already bleating poverty : just Google their name, and check out the recent media coverage.
Oh, and before you start claiming that high speed rail is endlessly less environmentally polluting that air, and moving to high speed rail benefits our fragile environment, check out the official EEA CORINAIR emissions data for such turboprops as VLM's frugal F50s - and note the true environmental impact of high-speed rail from such independent authorities as Belgium's 'Consumer Association, Test Aankoop .
There is plenty of evidence that air really can work out as environmentally friendly as high-speed rail on shorter-haul routes - particularly when you vector in the massive carbon footprint of rebuilding and maintaining that new West Coast Main Line and the other hidden energy burden of operating a high-speed electricity-powered rail lines within the UK and its fossil fuel power station dependence.
That's why the Department for Transport has just revised their advice to travellers on the direct.gov.uk website, and dropped any firm claim that you shouldn't travel by air within the UK. They now say you should consider the alternatives - which is long way back from their original claims that you should not fly. They accept that, in many circumstances, air travel is both justifiable and acceptable.
So, next time the West Coast Main Line is blocked, or Eurostar is discontinued due to an incident in the Tunnel, remember - the UK needs alternatives to get it to work, or to get it home. Now that VLM has pulled off its Manchester link, those alternatives are yet again reduced. That's a sad situation, particularly for the UK's region.
Last edited by StygerTim; 18th May 2009 at 17:32.
Train vs. Plane
If I recall correctly, UK surface public transport pays excise duty at the full rate (that is to say the same as you and I do) on their fuel (diesel predominantly). I think I would be correct in saying that aviation fuel is not just VAT, but also excise duty free - which makes a heck of a difference between the cost of a tonne of road or rail diesel, versus a tonne of jet fuel.
Doesn't really help operators running electric trains though!
So far as the question of relative emmisions between an electric powered train, and an aircraft I would think that dependent upon which side of the fence you sit, you coud make a case for either mode of public transport being more environmentally friendly, using the same data - there lies, damned lies, and statistics you know!
As for comfort, please compare apples with apples, and look at the comfort and space offered even in 2nd (OK Standard) class on a train, and a VLM Fokker - no competition methinks, and you can play with all those elctronic devices so beloved of today commuter on the train.
Doesn't really help operators running electric trains though!
So far as the question of relative emmisions between an electric powered train, and an aircraft I would think that dependent upon which side of the fence you sit, you coud make a case for either mode of public transport being more environmentally friendly, using the same data - there lies, damned lies, and statistics you know!
As for comfort, please compare apples with apples, and look at the comfort and space offered even in 2nd (OK Standard) class on a train, and a VLM Fokker - no competition methinks, and you can play with all those elctronic devices so beloved of today commuter on the train.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
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Air Livery hangar
Had a peek into the ex BA hangar today, work is going ahead at a cracking pace as the contractors install the massive extractor ducting.
Not sure how long it will be to opening ?
Not sure how long it will be to opening ?