MANCHESTER - 7
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Regarding the A380 and B-Pier, until its re-built Manchester wont be handling any a380's until its done.
As your all aware it just isn't big enough, never mind the fact that if 2 airbridges where built on the end of B-Pier in its current state, it would collapse.
Unless they use the end of C-pier (31/32) no a380 will be 'Handled' ie on turn around, for the foreseeable future.
As some of you will be aware, when/if B-pier is Demolished, before this there needs to be a airside link built between T1 and T2. This will take time. Nevermind the rebuild of a whole pier.
How long, i dont know....
TP
As your all aware it just isn't big enough, never mind the fact that if 2 airbridges where built on the end of B-Pier in its current state, it would collapse.
Unless they use the end of C-pier (31/32) no a380 will be 'Handled' ie on turn around, for the foreseeable future.
As some of you will be aware, when/if B-pier is Demolished, before this there needs to be a airside link built between T1 and T2. This will take time. Nevermind the rebuild of a whole pier.
How long, i dont know....
TP
Join Date: Apr 2009
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A380 at MAN
Emirates has said that there is a possibility of A380 ops from Feb 2010.
Stand 12 would be a A380 parking stand, when work to strengthen the apron finishes in October. However B pier wouldn't be able to cope with the amount of passengers trying to board a flight at the end of the pier also it wouldn't be safe to have 800+ passengers boarding in this area.
If the A380 was to park on stand 12, Passengers would be bussed from Gate 20 (T1 Airside Busing lounge) which can accommodate 1500+ passengers.
At the moment the only A380 stand at MAN is stand 62, there are plans to accommodate the A380 on stand 31 and 32.
Stand 12 would be a A380 parking stand, when work to strengthen the apron finishes in October. However B pier wouldn't be able to cope with the amount of passengers trying to board a flight at the end of the pier also it wouldn't be safe to have 800+ passengers boarding in this area.
If the A380 was to park on stand 12, Passengers would be bussed from Gate 20 (T1 Airside Busing lounge) which can accommodate 1500+ passengers.
At the moment the only A380 stand at MAN is stand 62, there are plans to accommodate the A380 on stand 31 and 32.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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ManOps
There are just 14 A380s in service and NONE have more than 490 seats
Singapore = 471
Emirates = 489
Qantas = 450
Manchester can and has handling these sort of numbers off of charter config 747s of the likes of Wardair,Travel City and those of Corsair for DECADES !
The Corsair birds have well over 500 seats!
However the current in service A388 aircraft are Elite class heavy and this alone makes them un-suited to regular Manchester operations.
As I pointed out elsewhere and some weeks ago in the case of Emirates use of the A380 in combination with an A332 would actually constitute a REDUCTION in available capacity out of Manchester compared to current high density 77W service levels
If the service remains at two flights a day with a single 2 class 332 and current three class 388 daily capacity is 767 total seats,
Breaking that down by class
First (A388) - 14 suites...................................................... ...14
Business Class - (A388) - 76 seats, (A332) - 27 seats.............. 103
Economy (Y) - (A388) - 399 seats, (A332) - 251 seats..............650
DAILY TOTAL 767
Current 2 class 77W operations max out at 854 seat per day (I use max out as they do sometimes send in a 3 class 77W whilst not selling the First Class reducing seating by 47 per flight)
Break down using two 2 class 77Ws
Business Class (Per flight 49).................................................98
Economy (Y) (Per flight 385).................................................770
So with one flight operated by a high density and one by a three claas (Unsold First)
you still get the following
DAILY TOTAL 807
Looking at these numbers and the demographics of the Manchester Traffic its clear that use of a current 388 in combination with a 332 actually equates to a reduction in capacity of 15% in the back of the plane whilst introducing some 14 VERY HIGH quality first into a known weak market.
Therefore imo its doesn't seem to be a beneficial change and those few Whale Jets are better deployed elsewhere where those first suites CAN be sold.
Now as to diversery risks and particularly multi aircraft diversions well lets analysis the situation.
1 Singapore operate two flight daily into LHR currently.
The evening flight is scheduled to land at 18.10z (Winter) and 19.10Bst (Summer)- Both of these times have a low risk of fogging , however a do carry a single digit snow risk in winter period. For snow it will have been forcast so extra fuel up lift before departure and hold until clear.If fuel becomes an issue its divert to Gatwick first choice (This has happened already)
The morning flight schedule is landing before 6AM (yes SQ has one of those night slots!).This is also a low fogging risk time believe it or not even deepest winter. Fogging risk increases around dawn some 2.5 hours later! Snow risk is similar to above so Gatwick or an on route FRA/AMS WILL be choice before MAN.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.
2. Emirates the daily UAE1 arrives LHR around 11.30 to 12.30 again any early morning fog has usually lifted by then. Where w/x risk forcast again its extra fuel uplift and enter hold (Could hold for several Hours with sufficient fuel easily). So again a div to Manchester unlikely.
However Emirates do have the most potential to divert and its on a MED div on the three weekly Toronto. It would be a quick dip off load of Med splash of fuel and off again. No stress to ground handling and parking side on the 60s I suppose.
3. Qantas currently only 3 weekly into LHR to go 5 some time in June and daily from winter timetable.
They have dedicated on route FRA as diversion point for QF31.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.
Current and planned facilities (Max 2 stands) are adequate for the risks of diversion for at least another twelve to eighteen months
Coming on stream Air France would likely choose SNN for TALC divs however Lufthansa might just surprise as they have been known to Med and Tec div into Manchester from time to time !
There are just 14 A380s in service and NONE have more than 490 seats
Singapore = 471
Emirates = 489
Qantas = 450
Manchester can and has handling these sort of numbers off of charter config 747s of the likes of Wardair,Travel City and those of Corsair for DECADES !
The Corsair birds have well over 500 seats!
However the current in service A388 aircraft are Elite class heavy and this alone makes them un-suited to regular Manchester operations.
As I pointed out elsewhere and some weeks ago in the case of Emirates use of the A380 in combination with an A332 would actually constitute a REDUCTION in available capacity out of Manchester compared to current high density 77W service levels
If the service remains at two flights a day with a single 2 class 332 and current three class 388 daily capacity is 767 total seats,
Breaking that down by class
First (A388) - 14 suites...................................................... ...14
Business Class - (A388) - 76 seats, (A332) - 27 seats.............. 103
Economy (Y) - (A388) - 399 seats, (A332) - 251 seats..............650
DAILY TOTAL 767
Current 2 class 77W operations max out at 854 seat per day (I use max out as they do sometimes send in a 3 class 77W whilst not selling the First Class reducing seating by 47 per flight)
Break down using two 2 class 77Ws
Business Class (Per flight 49).................................................98
Economy (Y) (Per flight 385).................................................770
So with one flight operated by a high density and one by a three claas (Unsold First)
you still get the following
DAILY TOTAL 807
Looking at these numbers and the demographics of the Manchester Traffic its clear that use of a current 388 in combination with a 332 actually equates to a reduction in capacity of 15% in the back of the plane whilst introducing some 14 VERY HIGH quality first into a known weak market.
Therefore imo its doesn't seem to be a beneficial change and those few Whale Jets are better deployed elsewhere where those first suites CAN be sold.
Now as to diversery risks and particularly multi aircraft diversions well lets analysis the situation.
1 Singapore operate two flight daily into LHR currently.
The evening flight is scheduled to land at 18.10z (Winter) and 19.10Bst (Summer)- Both of these times have a low risk of fogging , however a do carry a single digit snow risk in winter period. For snow it will have been forcast so extra fuel up lift before departure and hold until clear.If fuel becomes an issue its divert to Gatwick first choice (This has happened already)
The morning flight schedule is landing before 6AM (yes SQ has one of those night slots!).This is also a low fogging risk time believe it or not even deepest winter. Fogging risk increases around dawn some 2.5 hours later! Snow risk is similar to above so Gatwick or an on route FRA/AMS WILL be choice before MAN.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.
2. Emirates the daily UAE1 arrives LHR around 11.30 to 12.30 again any early morning fog has usually lifted by then. Where w/x risk forcast again its extra fuel uplift and enter hold (Could hold for several Hours with sufficient fuel easily). So again a div to Manchester unlikely.
However Emirates do have the most potential to divert and its on a MED div on the three weekly Toronto. It would be a quick dip off load of Med splash of fuel and off again. No stress to ground handling and parking side on the 60s I suppose.
3. Qantas currently only 3 weekly into LHR to go 5 some time in June and daily from winter timetable.
They have dedicated on route FRA as diversion point for QF31.
In the case of fog the aircraft are CAT3 and crews may want to make autoland if certified anyways.
Current and planned facilities (Max 2 stands) are adequate for the risks of diversion for at least another twelve to eighteen months
Coming on stream Air France would likely choose SNN for TALC divs however Lufthansa might just surprise as they have been known to Med and Tec div into Manchester from time to time !
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I understand that Emirates will eventually operate 3 configs of the A380. The current low density config, a medium density and a high density for routes such as those into India.
by the time MAN see's a scheduled A380 from Emirates, I suspect we will be getting a med density aircraft. Should be fine compared to the high density 77's we have seen.
Hopefully the management at MAN will use this drop in passengers to take up the challenge of rebuilding Pier B to modern standards soon.
Gavin
by the time MAN see's a scheduled A380 from Emirates, I suspect we will be getting a med density aircraft. Should be fine compared to the high density 77's we have seen.
Hopefully the management at MAN will use this drop in passengers to take up the challenge of rebuilding Pier B to modern standards soon.
Gavin
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I expect that Emirates will indeed operate future A388 aircraft in differing configs to the existing five.
However they will not receive any more until the Autumn and then take four upto Christmas time.
I expect these will allow the re-introduction of JFK and the second evening LHR flight (that operated in early spring) .
The Mid Density aircraft are likely in third batch of deliveries sometime 2010 earliest and are currently alloy ingot/plates, rolls of wire, sand and tube of epoxy resin!
However they will not receive any more until the Autumn and then take four upto Christmas time.
I expect these will allow the re-introduction of JFK and the second evening LHR flight (that operated in early spring) .
The Mid Density aircraft are likely in third batch of deliveries sometime 2010 earliest and are currently alloy ingot/plates, rolls of wire, sand and tube of epoxy resin!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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Biman returning ?
Heard whisperings this morning that Biman might be on the way back in the next few months. 
Have they sorted out their fleet renewal ?
Have they sorted out their fleet renewal ?
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Biman do plan to return to MAN, but not until they have taken delivery of 777 / 787 aircraft which wont be for sometime, the only reason they dropped the MAN route was that they couldn't operate a schedule with the aging DC-10s which were regularly 12hr+ late.
With regards to seats on A380 aircraft, i was pointing out that B Pier is totally inadequate to operate such a aircraft, as not only would you have A380 on stand but god knows how many Ryanairs around also. MAN Airport used to park A330's on stand 12 and they only had 360 seats on and it was a nightmare at the end of the Pier.
With regards to seats on A380 aircraft, i was pointing out that B Pier is totally inadequate to operate such a aircraft, as not only would you have A380 on stand but god knows how many Ryanairs around also. MAN Airport used to park A330's on stand 12 and they only had 360 seats on and it was a nightmare at the end of the Pier.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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If an A380 was diverting in to MAN and ended up on B pier....the pax in the terminal would either be disembarking and cntinuing by road OR would remain on board if the diversion was set to continue on to its destination relatively soon.....
rarely would they need to board at this gate.....
I really don't think it's a worry really.....
rarely would they need to board at this gate.....
I really don't think it's a worry really.....
Join Date: Feb 2004
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ManOps/Stoney Bridge Radar.
Biman might well take those Four most aged and cycle expended machines of CX and SQ however i actually expect the 787 order to be delayed/deferred and then canx- They have NO money !
The Diesel 10s are excluded from operating to the UK leaving just two A310s for the LHR service and as well as Manchester other mainland European routes have been suspended as a result.
The likes of Amsterdam and Frankfurt will surely take precedence over Manchester as will the regional routes to Kuala Lumpur/Singapore China and Japan when and if these B772 are taken on.
With four DC10s for replacement where will the new service availability actually come from even if they put the A310s back on regionals?
As to the A380 issue i think we actually agree that Manchester whilst declared A380 diversion ready is far from regular service prepared.
The old end of pier B what was once stand 15 however has long been the chosen spot for one off parking of oddball aircraft has it not ?
Biman might well take those Four most aged and cycle expended machines of CX and SQ however i actually expect the 787 order to be delayed/deferred and then canx- They have NO money !
The Diesel 10s are excluded from operating to the UK leaving just two A310s for the LHR service and as well as Manchester other mainland European routes have been suspended as a result.
The likes of Amsterdam and Frankfurt will surely take precedence over Manchester as will the regional routes to Kuala Lumpur/Singapore China and Japan when and if these B772 are taken on.
With four DC10s for replacement where will the new service availability actually come from even if they put the A310s back on regionals?
As to the A380 issue i think we actually agree that Manchester whilst declared A380 diversion ready is far from regular service prepared.
The old end of pier B what was once stand 15 however has long been the chosen spot for one off parking of oddball aircraft has it not ?
Join Date: May 2001
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The EK A380 is due to operate in MAN around Easter 2010. This is of course fully dependant on how the industry goes and and pax figures closer to the time.
The airfield may be declared as A380 ready, but the terminal is far from ready for a daily operation. While T1's departures lounge is looking very shiny downstairs its still the same baggage systems that fail every summer. Inbound baggage carousels cannot cope with more than 15 bags a minute without stopping with the auto sorters getting clogged up. You'd need at least two carousels to clear a full medium density EK A380.
The new stand 12 layout has plenty of room it is far from how it used to be, however it still is not connected to the terminal building (B Pier) this is allowing the airport to park the A380 where there are no wingtip issues i.e. around C Pier. All pax are still planned to be bussed from gate 20. So there will be no issue of overcrouding on the pier as the passengers will be in the main departure lounge.
The airfield may be declared as A380 ready, but the terminal is far from ready for a daily operation. While T1's departures lounge is looking very shiny downstairs its still the same baggage systems that fail every summer. Inbound baggage carousels cannot cope with more than 15 bags a minute without stopping with the auto sorters getting clogged up. You'd need at least two carousels to clear a full medium density EK A380.
The new stand 12 layout has plenty of room it is far from how it used to be, however it still is not connected to the terminal building (B Pier) this is allowing the airport to park the A380 where there are no wingtip issues i.e. around C Pier. All pax are still planned to be bussed from gate 20. So there will be no issue of overcrouding on the pier as the passengers will be in the main departure lounge.
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The 3 EK densities for the A380 are/were the 489 seat now in operation, the 517 seat - this is not a medium density as I believe they'll still have some F seats on board and the 644 seat HD which I believe is the variety that will appear here.
Thus, if they want to boost capacity by 200 seats or so a day, they can either schedule MAN as A380 + 77W or go three daily to 2 A332 and a 77W (a new early morning service, perhaps tied in with a 3rd EK wave at DXB?). Pax numbers are down this year but still about 80% full generally.
Thus, if they want to boost capacity by 200 seats or so a day, they can either schedule MAN as A380 + 77W or go three daily to 2 A332 and a 77W (a new early morning service, perhaps tied in with a 3rd EK wave at DXB?). Pax numbers are down this year but still about 80% full generally.
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With Swine Flu quickly becoming a pandemic and British travellers still in Mexico requiring repatriation, what control measures will be in place at MAN to ensure that our workplace doesn't become a breeding ground for the virus? I have young children at home (1 with severe asthma and epilepsy) and I am a bit scared to be honest.
Join Date: May 2001
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If you work at Manchester Airport you should be almost immune from most viruses and bacteria, the place is a breeding ground since they cut the cleaning contracts.
The official line: stay 8 feet away from anyone with cold symtoms and wash your hands before eating and drinking.
The official line: stay 8 feet away from anyone with cold symtoms and wash your hands before eating and drinking.
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Valid point... And also when you see the scruffs that go in and out of there, I probably have nothing to worry about anyways. It does make one wonder however what plans are in place in the event of an actual pandemic illness. During S.A.R.S. they (the plc) didn't seem to have a plan and it was even worse during the Bird Flu scare.
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Different approach today?
Just wondering if there is a technical reason (U/S ILS etc) why a lot of aircraft seem to be making a less than usual approach to 23 R this morning? I assume its a VOR/DME approach... are they taking advantage of the clear conditions to get aircraft to use this approach?
Would be surprised, AWR, as the ILS would be more efficient than the less practiced non-precision VOR. In my Company, the Flight Crew Training manual states that it is recommended that a non-precision approach should be flown stabilised rather than decelerating, i.e. starting at a slower speed than normal, so it would take extra time to complete. The u/s ILS would be a more likely scenario.
I can't see many visual approaches to 23R either.
I can't see many visual approaches to 23R either.