FlyBe - 6
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Fancy calling Ryanair and easyJet bucket and spade airlines ´´carrying passengers to the Eastern Mediterranean and stag weekends´´. What a numpty. I bet staff at easy are pleased he doesnt work for them any more, but good luck to all at Flybe you will need all the luck that is going I´m afraid.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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At least we now there are still adding flights to their network with Cardiff and maybe Luton with Guernsey and others
In an article on BBC News Wales website it does state that Cardiff is in a special position as there are no crew based here however it did say that some routes could possibly go.
BBC article:
This is CEO speak for
"HR told me I must go through the legal formalities of redundancy consultation strictly so that the company doesn't get sued and sent to employment tribunals, but you should 99.999% expect routes will be dropped with formal route cancellation announcements in a little over 45 days time"
As part of the cost-cutting programme Mr Hammad said some routes could "possibly" go. "These are challenging times," he added.
This is CEO speak for
"HR told me I must go through the legal formalities of redundancy consultation strictly so that the company doesn't get sued and sent to employment tribunals, but you should 99.999% expect routes will be dropped with formal route cancellation announcements in a little over 45 days time"
Join Date: Apr 2005
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mathers_wales_uk,
I think Boeing737-8 was trying to say it's not all doom-and-gloom and that new routes have been announced. My own view is that once the redundancies are known, various new (and hopefully interesting/diverse) routes will be announced out of bases that will be kept, such as those applied for out of SOU and BHX (to FRA, MUC etc).
The presentation posted by davidjohnson6 shows that in addition to the 7 LGW routes being axed that do not return any money to the airline, there are 21x routes that do not cover "DOCs and crew costs" and a further 61x routes do not cover "DOCs, crew costs & a/c costs". That's a lot of routes to be weighing up, and even if a handful of those are axed, additional routes will need to replace them in order to keep the fleet busy.
FYI, It's worth noting that the new Cardiff routes are being operated by Birmingham and Southampton crews this winter.
I think Boeing737-8 was trying to say it's not all doom-and-gloom and that new routes have been announced. My own view is that once the redundancies are known, various new (and hopefully interesting/diverse) routes will be announced out of bases that will be kept, such as those applied for out of SOU and BHX (to FRA, MUC etc).
The presentation posted by davidjohnson6 shows that in addition to the 7 LGW routes being axed that do not return any money to the airline, there are 21x routes that do not cover "DOCs and crew costs" and a further 61x routes do not cover "DOCs, crew costs & a/c costs". That's a lot of routes to be weighing up, and even if a handful of those are axed, additional routes will need to replace them in order to keep the fleet busy.
FYI, It's worth noting that the new Cardiff routes are being operated by Birmingham and Southampton crews this winter.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the entire Flybe Q400 and E195 fleet leased and not owned, thus they'd have to make monthly payments regardless of whether the aircraft are parked or flying? Unless they want to pay for an aircraf they're not using, or pay presumably costly early-returns, the new management must have a whole new route network up their sleeve?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Don't know your source, but according to P.45 of the presentation linked earlier in this thread, only 8 of the overall fleet of 96 are owned, down from 10/98 six months ago.
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It would depend on the lenght of the operating leases (3/5/7 years). There could by 5 - 10 aircraft coming up for lease renewal in the next 15 months which could exit the fleet in any scaling back of activities.
How can management allow a situation to develop where so many routes dont cover the basic costs?
How can management allow a situation to develop where so many routes dont cover the basic costs?
Join Date: May 2006
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Ah yes I read what I was looking at completely wrong it is 8 that are owned which are the dash's, the Ejets are all leased
Tonyq Don't know your source, but according to P.45 of the presentation linked earlier in this thread, only 8 of the overall fleet of 96 are owned, down from 10/98 six months ago.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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No I'm not even sure we own 8 Q4's. The 8 include Flybe Finland and I think this is where alot are owned. When we disposed of aircraft last time I thought we offloaded our last remaining owned Q4's (x4)
Join Date: Dec 2012
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@ ondale
Depends how the cost allocation has been done. You've got 40 routes not covering fully allocated costs but making a contribution to indirect costs . Quite a few routes are off-peak or weekend so that running them on that basis could make business sense. Indeed it wouldn't be easy to achieve the goal of improved pilot utilisation rates running a 0600-1100 and 1600-2000 M to F airline. If the indirect costs have been spread by flying hour, for example, that could give a falsely optimistic impression of the true profitability of the peak business routes.
Most of the 21 routes not covering direct costs will probably have to go but I wonder how a route is defined. Some of what I think of as flyBE routes are no more than one or two a week May to September.
Possibly more informative than the route level is the base level. That's the level where most of the resources are incurred and can be escaped sooner or later.
I really hope there is a securely profitable thin man in there because although we can live without regional Britain to regional France if it doesn't pay, we need the other roles which flyBE performs. Tough times for the third sector.
Most of the 21 routes not covering direct costs will probably have to go but I wonder how a route is defined. Some of what I think of as flyBE routes are no more than one or two a week May to September.
Possibly more informative than the route level is the base level. That's the level where most of the resources are incurred and can be escaped sooner or later.
I really hope there is a securely profitable thin man in there because although we can live without regional Britain to regional France if it doesn't pay, we need the other roles which flyBE performs. Tough times for the third sector.
Assuming the 7 routes that don't cover DOCs are the Gatwick routes, would these have been profitable had GIP not significantly raised airport charges at Gatwick ?
As far as I can remember, Flybe's response was to appeal to the CAA to try to get the charges set to something more affordable in the hope of retaining a London operation as so much money is in London. When Flybe realised the CAA wasn't going to intervene, they sold the slots to Easyjet as soon as possible.
Slightly disingeneous for Saad Hamaad to explicitly flag up the 7 routes which he knows will cease in a few months and are still operated only because of a use-it-or-lose-it rule on slots at Gatwick, and furthermore he knows that there's very little he can do about the 7 routes which hasn't been done already
As far as I can remember, Flybe's response was to appeal to the CAA to try to get the charges set to something more affordable in the hope of retaining a London operation as so much money is in London. When Flybe realised the CAA wasn't going to intervene, they sold the slots to Easyjet as soon as possible.
Slightly disingeneous for Saad Hamaad to explicitly flag up the 7 routes which he knows will cease in a few months and are still operated only because of a use-it-or-lose-it rule on slots at Gatwick, and furthermore he knows that there's very little he can do about the 7 routes which hasn't been done already
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They did actually make a profit ......
Pre-tax profits were £13.8m for the six months to 30 September, compared with a loss of £1.6m a year earlier.
BUT is that operating or does it include the slot sale at LGW.
Pre-tax profits were £13.8m for the six months to 30 September, compared with a loss of £1.6m a year earlier.
BUT is that operating or does it include the slot sale at LGW.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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If you read the notes to the accounts, you will see that it is operating profit, excluding exceptional items, such as restructuring costs, US$ loan revaluations etc. The cash from the slot sales won't be in the accounts until the deal is concluded next March, although I think easyJet paid around £7m as a deposit in the period covered by these accounts.