FlyGlobeSpan - 8 (merged)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On the Edge
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe the 'cash injection' is to pay all the staff the huge bonus that they all deserve. 
Just to clarify to the 'DavyDay'esque people, this was sarcasm and no condescending or derogatory reply is needed.
Just to clarify to the 'DavyDay'esque people, this was sarcasm and no condescending or derogatory reply is needed.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't add up
At the very best, this investment was a PR disaster.
So FGS have been in negotiations with investors for the last few months to expand the business while at the same time contracting and consolidating, doesn't add up to me
So FGS have been in negotiations with investors for the last few months to expand the business while at the same time contracting and consolidating, doesn't add up to me
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: scotland
Age: 45
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for those of you that wish or want GSM to fail, have you thought about all the hard working staff that GSM have, (some of them may actually look at this site), so before you start talking anymore drivel without actually having any concrete evidence and i dont mean the crap that the journo in the independent came out with, maybe just maybe spare a thought to them first.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Balmullo,Scotland
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am also confused (not difficult I know!!) however if this alleged investment is to take the airline to the next (natural) level one presumes this means expansion then why is it that GSM have got rid of 7 aircraft in the recent past?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daddy-Oh
In case you forget, XL had its financing pulled by Barclays in August of 2008, as they were unhappy about the financial structure of the business.
Further, to quote a news article, it was lossmaking in the year ending Oct 2007, before the credit crunch hit the real economy. Added to which, it had taken out borrowings that were unsustainable.
So if you think it was lack of bookings in the last month, use Google a bit and educate yourself.
As HF mentioned on p1, it is the lack of financing that kills businesses, where banks see no route to recovery of their loans.
Daddy-Oh - you are perpetuating this thread through a complete lack of reasoned debate on the matter. In putting your fingers in your ears and shouting down all others, you have simply caused reasoned argument to win the day. How about responding in kind with a substantive reason why GSM is not going down the pan?
I await with anticipation.
In case you forget, XL had its financing pulled by Barclays in August of 2008, as they were unhappy about the financial structure of the business.
Further, to quote a news article, it was lossmaking in the year ending Oct 2007, before the credit crunch hit the real economy. Added to which, it had taken out borrowings that were unsustainable.
XL, which sells holidays under brands including Freedom Flights and Medlife Hotels, made an operating loss of £24m in the 12 months to October last year.
Net liabilities increased from £8m to £59m during the period, according to documents filed with Companies House. Money owed to creditors grew from £114m to £205m.
Net liabilities increased from £8m to £59m during the period, according to documents filed with Companies House. Money owed to creditors grew from £114m to £205m.
As HF mentioned on p1, it is the lack of financing that kills businesses, where banks see no route to recovery of their loans.
Daddy-Oh - you are perpetuating this thread through a complete lack of reasoned debate on the matter. In putting your fingers in your ears and shouting down all others, you have simply caused reasoned argument to win the day. How about responding in kind with a substantive reason why GSM is not going down the pan?
I await with anticipation.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Balmullo,Scotland
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I worked in Colinton(left June 08 oh still waiting on my notice money) it was quoted in the Scottish newspaper rich list that TD was worth in excess of 70 Million quid, if what Davy-Davy says is correct he must have lost a lot, perhaps bailing out FGS????????
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Another airport hotel
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
60 or 70k owed or in arrears? Might sound alot to you but could easily be a bill for just one month of services. 60k is what a B767 could burn in fuel in one day given typical high utilization. An unpaid monthly wage bill for a company of this size would be around 600K or more. Now that would be more juicy for this forum.
"just two of many". Why stop at just two. Perhaps you could list all the others?
TD might be worth 27 or 70 million... doesnt mean any or all of it is sat as cash in a bank account readily available to throw at GSM! Besides, why use your own money if you can use others...
DD - Just what is your connection to GSM anyway? I assume youre not on the payroll!
"just two of many". Why stop at just two. Perhaps you could list all the others?
TD might be worth 27 or 70 million... doesnt mean any or all of it is sat as cash in a bank account readily available to throw at GSM! Besides, why use your own money if you can use others...
DD - Just what is your connection to GSM anyway? I assume youre not on the payroll!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Behind you all the way!
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it could be new aircraft. 3 of the B767's were ex-ANZ & although in fantastic condition with average hours, they were very low-cycled for their age. G-SPNA is ex-KLM & ex-ZOOM but it is the only one with a main entry door at 'Doors 2' allowing a higher capacity than the other 3.
The capacity of a 6 main door/2 small emergency exit B763 is around 330 seats. That's G-SPNA.
The capacity of a 4 main door/4 small emergency exit B763 is around 270 seats. That's G-CEOD, G-CEFG & G-CDPT.
With no firm date for the delivery of their ordered B787's & MAYBE a desire to replace their B767's, MAYBE it's a re-equipment programme that needs funding.
Halcyon spent over a month scrutinising Globespan's books before deciding to invest. But like I asked previously, how many venture capitalists are deciding to invest cash in airlines and how many airlines have a queue of several investment companies submitting bids of investment in the current global investment & aviation industry climates? Answers on a postage stamp to that one.
As someone stated previously, investment companies don't approach airlines offering investment unless they are a sound, worthwhile & a bloody good prospect.
MAYBE it's the decision of the 70 year old owner to sell a stake in his project to help fund his retirement with an injection of a few million.
But if I was investing in a company & found out that a credit card company was withholding several million pounds from said company, I think I would hold off from taking a stake. Halcyon studied GSM's finances for over 4 weeks & fought off several other parties that wanted to invest in GSM but Tom Dalrymple & GSM Senior Executives chose Halcyon. Why?
A previous company I worked for was owned by 2 men. It operated a couple of Shorts 360's doing ACMI & AdHoc charter. An investment company called 3I came along, gave Brian & Gene a barrowload of cash for a 49% stake in the company.
Within months the company got a couple of BAe146's & expanded. About a year after that it bought a couple of B737QC's to enhance it's specialist operations. Then it bought a B757, then another, now it's after a B767. Expansion was possible due to outside investment being brought in & the company being taken to the 'Next Level'. 3I never got involved in the running of the company, they just left that to a very capable & trusted management team.
My money is on the 'Scheduled' side of the operation (B737NG's) stabilizing at the current number with possibly the 2 sent away at the end of last summer MAYBE returning with a couple of aircraft leased in from a Canadian firm for 'Summer only' Ops. MAYBE with some of GSM's B737NGs going to Canada for the North American winter.
For the 'Heavy' fleet, I think it depends on when the B787's will come. If it's soon, MAYBE swap the lo-capacity B767's for hi-capacity versions with winglets.
If it looks like the B787 will be delayed further, MAYBE cancel the order & look at ordering A350's. I also think that since Air Atlanta slashed their passenger op's, there has been a demand for that type of operation. Air Atlanta didn't want the expense of moving from the B747 Classic's to B777's. For a company moving up to 'The Next Level', MAYBE buying a couple of used B777's or A330's could be what GSM are looking at, especially when their B763's did so well when subbed out to Air India.
Who KNOWS for definite?? No-one but a select few, but it's exciting times ahead & time really will tell.
Those are my final words on the matter. I have no time for 'Doom & Gloom'ers or people who revel in the 'Scoop' that is someone else's misery. If anyone wants to direct anything at me, use the PM facility.
Out.
The capacity of a 6 main door/2 small emergency exit B763 is around 330 seats. That's G-SPNA.
The capacity of a 4 main door/4 small emergency exit B763 is around 270 seats. That's G-CEOD, G-CEFG & G-CDPT.
With no firm date for the delivery of their ordered B787's & MAYBE a desire to replace their B767's, MAYBE it's a re-equipment programme that needs funding.
Halcyon spent over a month scrutinising Globespan's books before deciding to invest. But like I asked previously, how many venture capitalists are deciding to invest cash in airlines and how many airlines have a queue of several investment companies submitting bids of investment in the current global investment & aviation industry climates? Answers on a postage stamp to that one.
As someone stated previously, investment companies don't approach airlines offering investment unless they are a sound, worthwhile & a bloody good prospect.
MAYBE it's the decision of the 70 year old owner to sell a stake in his project to help fund his retirement with an injection of a few million.
But if I was investing in a company & found out that a credit card company was withholding several million pounds from said company, I think I would hold off from taking a stake. Halcyon studied GSM's finances for over 4 weeks & fought off several other parties that wanted to invest in GSM but Tom Dalrymple & GSM Senior Executives chose Halcyon. Why?
A previous company I worked for was owned by 2 men. It operated a couple of Shorts 360's doing ACMI & AdHoc charter. An investment company called 3I came along, gave Brian & Gene a barrowload of cash for a 49% stake in the company.
Within months the company got a couple of BAe146's & expanded. About a year after that it bought a couple of B737QC's to enhance it's specialist operations. Then it bought a B757, then another, now it's after a B767. Expansion was possible due to outside investment being brought in & the company being taken to the 'Next Level'. 3I never got involved in the running of the company, they just left that to a very capable & trusted management team.
My money is on the 'Scheduled' side of the operation (B737NG's) stabilizing at the current number with possibly the 2 sent away at the end of last summer MAYBE returning with a couple of aircraft leased in from a Canadian firm for 'Summer only' Ops. MAYBE with some of GSM's B737NGs going to Canada for the North American winter.
For the 'Heavy' fleet, I think it depends on when the B787's will come. If it's soon, MAYBE swap the lo-capacity B767's for hi-capacity versions with winglets.
If it looks like the B787 will be delayed further, MAYBE cancel the order & look at ordering A350's. I also think that since Air Atlanta slashed their passenger op's, there has been a demand for that type of operation. Air Atlanta didn't want the expense of moving from the B747 Classic's to B777's. For a company moving up to 'The Next Level', MAYBE buying a couple of used B777's or A330's could be what GSM are looking at, especially when their B763's did so well when subbed out to Air India.
Who KNOWS for definite?? No-one but a select few, but it's exciting times ahead & time really will tell.
Those are my final words on the matter. I have no time for 'Doom & Gloom'ers or people who revel in the 'Scoop' that is someone else's misery. If anyone wants to direct anything at me, use the PM facility.
Out.
Last edited by DADDY-OH!; 17th Nov 2009 at 12:10.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only problem with that is that the 787 is massively delayed and the 350 isn't ready yet and all the slots for the forseeable future have already been bought.
To take a company like GSM "to the next level" would need a significant amount of cash. Halcyon invest UPTO £40million. Frankly, that's hardly enough to pay the wage bill, let alone completely refinance the organisation.
I hope I'm very wrong though, as none of this makes any sense knowing what I do about finance houses and how they work and what the conditions are like for borrowing at the moment.
Good luck GSM staff, I have the horrible feeling that you might need it.
To take a company like GSM "to the next level" would need a significant amount of cash. Halcyon invest UPTO £40million. Frankly, that's hardly enough to pay the wage bill, let alone completely refinance the organisation.
I hope I'm very wrong though, as none of this makes any sense knowing what I do about finance houses and how they work and what the conditions are like for borrowing at the moment.
Good luck GSM staff, I have the horrible feeling that you might need it.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chester
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So DavyDay you have called our "equipment suppliers" to find out how much we owe?
Is that all of them you rang? Boeing through to our printer suppliers (I think we have several hundred)?
We only owe them £75K????
Remarkable that you were able to find out who they all were!
Surprising their accounts departments were happy to divulge commercially sensitive info to a random guy ringing up.
Perhaps you could give me their numbers so I can call them all just in case you are making this up.
Without wanting to give any credibility to your post it is clear you have never worked in a business environment. Normal payment terms are 28 days... the only time most businesses pay before this deadline is if the supplier levies incremental interest charges for payments as they go beyond 28...56 ...84 days etc.
In short it is standard business practice not to pay your suppliers as soon as the invoice comes through the door. Any company with revenues of £40,000,000 over this winter will owe and be owed significant sums at any given instant.
For anyone interested in some real facts a good source is the CAA...type stats into the search box and you will find some.
Throughout 2009 GSM had the second highest load factor of all UK 737 operators listed (most recently 83% for the 800 - Thomson were the first with 85.4%).
Another key measure is aircraft utilisation. Thompson first with 12.6 hours / day; GSM second with 12.5 for the 800. No one else even close.
Along with every other airline in the UK our yields have been hit (that happens in a recession).
In the 35 year history of this company it has only once made a loss. It made a profit last year and will be in profit this year.
Is that all of them you rang? Boeing through to our printer suppliers (I think we have several hundred)?
We only owe them £75K????
Remarkable that you were able to find out who they all were!
Surprising their accounts departments were happy to divulge commercially sensitive info to a random guy ringing up.
Perhaps you could give me their numbers so I can call them all just in case you are making this up.
Without wanting to give any credibility to your post it is clear you have never worked in a business environment. Normal payment terms are 28 days... the only time most businesses pay before this deadline is if the supplier levies incremental interest charges for payments as they go beyond 28...56 ...84 days etc.
In short it is standard business practice not to pay your suppliers as soon as the invoice comes through the door. Any company with revenues of £40,000,000 over this winter will owe and be owed significant sums at any given instant.
For anyone interested in some real facts a good source is the CAA...type stats into the search box and you will find some.
Throughout 2009 GSM had the second highest load factor of all UK 737 operators listed (most recently 83% for the 800 - Thomson were the first with 85.4%).
Another key measure is aircraft utilisation. Thompson first with 12.6 hours / day; GSM second with 12.5 for the 800. No one else even close.
Along with every other airline in the UK our yields have been hit (that happens in a recession).
In the 35 year history of this company it has only once made a loss. It made a profit last year and will be in profit this year.
Last edited by 300-600; 17th Nov 2009 at 12:48. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: edinburgh
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not think Thomas Cook would subcontract GSM without a thorough examination of every aspect of it's operations , including going concern .
I hope " growing GSM to the next level " will include a serious look at punctuality and inadequate turn round times on many of its routes , this will get worse next summer as they have shortened many of them , passengers notice these things . Just a look at the record of GSM on Canary Island routes should prove my point. 9 hours 50 is just not enough on Tenerife and Las Palmas . And their Trans - Atlantic services are a joke .
I hope " growing GSM to the next level " will include a serious look at punctuality and inadequate turn round times on many of its routes , this will get worse next summer as they have shortened many of them , passengers notice these things . Just a look at the record of GSM on Canary Island routes should prove my point. 9 hours 50 is just not enough on Tenerife and Las Palmas . And their Trans - Atlantic services are a joke .
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On the Edge
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jenny B
Very witty
However you might have to explain that one to some people.
Think mod flights have been declining in number since the 60's apart from a brief burst of popularity around the release of Quadrophrenia..
However you might have to explain that one to some people.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would just like to say, a great flight from GSM tonight from Paphos to Edinburgh. Fantastic service & humour from the flight crew with an early departure from PFO, arriving 10mins down at EDI due to headwinds. You pay for what you get and I think that some of the bashers on this forum are out of order. I reckon some of them haven't even flown with them!!
Way to go....long live GSM!!!!!!!!
Way to go....long live GSM!!!!!!!!