Bmibaby

[merchant sailors]

Adding to the confusion

They are also walking away from what appears to be a very strong med route operation at Cardiff where they have no / little competition.

All this to base at BHD and fly to the med (longer sectors) in competition with EI, LS and EZY at BFS

Why would any airline do that?

Is it too late to change their minds?

[davidjohnson6]

merchant - how willing are the inhabitants of Cardiff to fly from Bristol, and can one look at Cardiff as a market purely of its own rather than in conjunction with BRS ?

I'm guessing that for beach routes from Cardiff to Spain and Portugal, a significant number of the passengers are taking an annual summer holiday and actively consider Bristol as an option if it's cheaper

[CheekyVisual]

That is CWLs entire problem, not just baby but the entire airport. Despite BRS terrible road it is still less than an hour from Cardiff's population centre and from Newport the trip time is about the same. This makes Cardiff and Newport part of the BRS catchment area.

Baby appear to have been unable to compete on price with FR and Easy on the med routes over the last two summers, hence CWLs demise I guess. It's not a few quid either even taking into account travel to Bristol the difference is in hundreds for a family of four on most flights. The CWL catchment isn't well off at the moment either. Lots of public sector jobs under threat. People are really looking at every penny.

I used to work for Baby, now work for one of the others, unfortunately. I would always fly with Baby and from CWL by choice but this year I can't justify the premium.

I've operated out of BRS a fair bit this summer lots of Welsh accents on the aircraft ! When price is everything CWL seem unable to compete looking at any airline.

Good luck to Baby though, despite shafting me, they are a generally good bunch of guys and girls I hope it works out for them. Sad for those uprooted from CWL though.

[jerboy]

Yep that's the way it works, the system will allocate a seat. You can for a fee select a seat, if there is more than one of you travelling it will not try and split you up, but you might be on a different row if your seat was the last on that row

Another peace of poor IT from (or used by) the bmi group. Although it actively doesn't split people up, sitting a 3 year old in 22A and its parent in 21F isn't exactly helpful. Sorting it out is annoying for the passenger, can be tricky for staff to sort out if the flight is full, and slows down turnaround times. Something like this would be so simple to remedy with a few lines of code from an IT boffin.

They need to concentrate on getting the simple things correct first rather than introducing even more complicated fare structuring as discussed above... FamilyFly, FlyPlus... eh? Again they are trying to be everything to everyone and complicating matters. For example only now are Easyjet, who are infinitely bigger than baby, entering the 'business fare' market after building up and earning the loyalty of business passengers for years.

It just seems another stab in the dark whereas what the airline actually needs is a massive overhaul and substantial investment.

[INKJET]

Jerboy

Bmibaby have been in the business end of the Market since day one with it's domestic product, as for Easyjet they didn't do themselves any favours with the business Market when they named and shamed large businesses that DIDN'T fly with them but used BA. What easy jet failed to understand was that business traffic needs flexibility and not sorry your late that's £500 to go on the later flight or massive name change fees

Back to baby, you can avoid the child not sitting next to you paying a fee for seat allocation and many do just that, likewise the new products of Flyplus and flyfamily also allow free seat selection, I don't think baby is trying to be all things to all men, it's just trying......

Agreed it needs investment in newer aircraft, however that is not a priority for DLH when bmi group losses are running at over £100m in the first half

Sadly things are never as easy as a few lines of code....

[Skipness One Echo]

as for Easyjet they didn't do themselves any favours with the business Market when they named and shamed large businesses that DIDN'T fly with them but used BA. What easy jet failed to understand was that business traffic needs flexibility and not sorry your late that's £500 to go on the later flight or massive name change fees

easyJet learned from this and are now much more business friendly. Until recently it was possible to arrive for an earlier flight and hop on gratis assuming there were spare seats.

[True Blue]

APIS info

I am flying Bhx/Bhd this weekend. I have received an email from Baby advising of the need to input Apis info if flying to/from UK on an international flight, which I understand. But why am I being asked for this on a domestic flight? My reservation at the minute is looking for this to be input.

True Blue

[INKJET]

Not sure why you would need it for NI?

APIS information is not required for travel to the Republic of Ireland or Germany. However, passengers traveling to the Republic of Ireland who wish to use our online check in service are required to provide their passport/photo ID details prior to checking in.

[clareview]

Apis

Inkjet

BHD (George Best Belfast City Airport) is not in the Republic of Ireland so a flight from Brimingham is the same as one from Birmingham to Glasgow or Exeter i.e a domestic flight. Belfast is in the United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, to use the correct title for our nation.

I am not sure therefore why you are explaining the rules for the Republic of Ireland, a foreign country.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Err. I take it no-one here is used to flying into N.I then...

The rules about flying into and out of N.I are a bit different than the rest of the country. Even though it's technically a domestic flight, you still need to notify the powers that be.

It's not the airlines that make this stuff up I can assure you!

[eastern wiseguy]

Even though it's technically a domestic flight

It's not technically ANYTHING

It IS a domestic flight

[clareview]

I fly regularly from both BFS and BHD to other airports in the UK and between airports within Britain. Procedures are no different, nor is security - photo id at check in and security.

Long gone are the days of additional terrorist related security measures at Northern Ireland airports - its the same for everyone in the UK now

[Cazza_fly]

Even though it's technically a domestic flight,

This is a domestic flight.

bmibaby send out a standard email to all customers, however once you come to add these details, all you will find that you really need to do is add your name, gender and date of birth for domestic flights... It will then not require you to add the further details required for international flights that include passport details and nationality.

[True Blue]

I discovered this for myself. Pity WW are unable to be a bit more accurate in who they ask for this. For the record, none of EI, Ezy, Ls or Flybe ask for any info like this for domestic flights. So why do WW need it? It is clearly not a request from the authorities, unless they are picking on WW only, so must be a pendantic request from someone within WW?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Long gone are the days of additional terrorist related security measures at Northern Ireland airports - its the same for everyone in the UK now

OK, would you mind explaining that to Ports unit of Special Branch. They seem to have missed that one...

For an example, there is still the requirement to inform SB if you are going from a non-designated airport to or from N.I. from somewhere in the common travel area. Just check the Terrorism Act 2000.

I've only operated into BHD and N.I for the last 15 years, so I don't know what I'm talking about...

The reason API is wanted for N.I is due to the change in the rules between N.I and RoI in regard to the common travel area that used to exist between them (politically it still exists.)

Since the UK e-borders stuff came in in 2009, it's meant that whilst you don't need to show your passport to come into N.I from RoI, you ARE required to show it if leaving N.I.

Now, if this sounds nuts, that's because it is.

The whole thing about domestic flights is a red herring. You shouldn't need API for an internal EU flight (the Canaries don't count for that though for example) but this is an anomaly where it's asked for by the UK Border agency.

[eastern wiseguy]

For an example, there is still the requirement to inform SB if you are going from a non-designated airport to or from N.I. from somewhere in the common travel area.

Yes quite true.....how does that fit in between BHX and BHD,not exactly two NON DESIGNATED hole in the hedge airports.

Sloppy emailing I think.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Did you not read the rest of my post? The little bit about e-borders? That's the important bit. Since non UK nationals can get into N.I without having to show a passport, then to leave N.I, you need to show your passport or I.D. This is different compared to any other internal EU flight.

One thing more. You only need one non-designated airport before you have to tell SB, not 2. So if you are flying into BHD from a non-designated airfield, then you need to give notice.

[MontyP]

Ref the API thing

I thought the very same a couple of months ago. Very strange having to enter API's for NI to England. Proceeded to enter details and got fed up looking for my mates passport details decided there must be a way round it and there was. Cant remember how but I was able to check in online without having to enter API's.

[True Blue]

But they don't ask for API in the end, they ask for sex and D of B. What do they need that for and why does no other carrier that I mentioned in my previous post ask for it?

[Say again s l o w l y]

I have no idea about other carriers, but I do know that when travelling from N.I or anywhere in the UK, you are supposed to provide the UK Border agency with API.

I don't like it one little bit, but there it is.

Here's an excerpt from Wiki that explains it:

In July 2008, the UK Border Agency published a consultation paper on the Common Travel Area that envisaged the imposition of identity and immigration controls on all air and sea crossings between the island of Ireland and Great Britain. Being part of the proposed electronic borders system, these controls would be accompanied by an Advance Passenger Information System on all flights and sea journeys between the islands of Ireland and Great Britain.

While passport controls were planned to be brought in between the United Kingdom and Ireland, the nature of possible identity controls between Great Britain on the one hand, and the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and Northern Ireland on the other, is not altogether clear. The last of these is the most controversial as Northern Ireland is a constituent part of the United Kingdom, with a prominent Ulster Unionist describing the proposed arrangements as "intolerable and preposterous". The nature of identity checks between Northern Ireland and Great Britain was characterised by the British government as follows:

"Section 14 of the Police and Justice Act 2006 introduced a new power that will allow the police to capture passenger, crew and service information on air and sea journeys within the United Kingdom. ... It is expected that this police power will only apply to air and sea routes between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Passengers will not be required to use passports, but may be required to produce one of several types of documentation, including passports, when travelling, to enable the carrier to the meet the requirements of a police request."

As far as the land border is concerned, the UK Border Agency indicated that the border would be "lightly controlled" and a joint statement in 2008 by both governments confirmed that there are no plans for fixed controls on either side of the border