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Chaos at Terminal 5

Old 3rd Apr 2008, 17:56
  #941 (permalink)  
BAengineering
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Fit for Five

Capvermell, no just tried it, works fine. You have to click on the screen to activate the FLASH game. Of course you need the flash player loaded on your PC. So generally BA pc's would be out of the question, I say generally. I have heard a wee birdie that tells me they've been playing it in Waterworld. Imagine playing such a disrespectful game with the man it ridicules working away in the next office. Disgraceful, what's this country come to? is there no manners or decency left?

Oh another thing, suprisingly nobody has mentioned the BA MANTRA, well other than the reall catchy 'BA WAY' as stated in the corporate responsability report - T5 is bringing "the BA Way" to life.

Wanna know what happens to your bags being loaded to BA PLANES? Checkout the videos below'

1. BA BAG BOYS 1
2. BA BAG BOYS 2
3. BA BAG BOYS 3
4. BA BAG BOYS 4
5. BA BAG BOYS 5

Oh if anyone can remember that speal about the BA WAY,please put it on her for a laugh. Extra points if you can identify the individual, committee or agency that invented the drivel. It was wierd......
 
Old 3rd Apr 2008, 18:00
  #942 (permalink)  
 
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One thing springs to mind here - apart from the proven inept BA management - the baggage handling system is Dutch and is the same as in Schiphol . I seem to remember now why I don't fly KLM anymore ... uuurm lost bags from Schiphol ... and lies .
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 18:15
  #943 (permalink)  
 
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BAengineering
Capvermell, no just tried it, works fine. You have to click on the screen to activate the FLASH game
It ran ok in Firefox 2. IE7 didn't seem to want to know. It seemed too hard to jump over those trolleys for my liking, even if you jump they still seem to knock the bag out of Willy's hands. I only managed to get 2 in the hold before giving up. Still I suppose the idea is to be as difficult as the real T5 baggage system to use. Also I thought there could have been a better likeness for Willy with the player. As to BA's CEOs my only grudge against Skippy was being the man to take the axe to the world's finest ever passenger aircraft (which I had the pleasure of travelling on JFK to LHR only 8 days before the end in 2003) but Walsh I took an instant dislike to as the meanest kind of character lacking cost cutter with an obvious Napoleon complex. Has the man ever been known to smile or laugh about anything?
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 18:30
  #944 (permalink)  
 
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It looks as if the chaos at T5 has been too much for some.....just heard Naomi Campbell got tossed off a flight due to "baggage" problems......would love to have seen that one....
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 18:30
  #945 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, good, now the big issue is computer games.

It's good to know that subscribers to a thread about the T5 disaster have their priorities right.

I think I'll just sidle towards to door, and pretend PPRuNe never happened.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 18:49
  #946 (permalink)  
 
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You will find an interesting article on complex systems here - and I would argue that T5 is a classic example of a complex system:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...ilisation.html

The key conclusion is here:

Bar-Yam thinks the loss of key people would be crucial. "Losing pieces indiscriminately from a highly complex system is very dangerous," he says. "One of the most profound results of complex systems research is that when systems are highly complex, individuals matter."
So build a highly complex operation like T5 with minimal staff relying on automation and individuals start to matter.

Now try and reconcile this with what we are told is an abusive management culture that does their level best to dis-empower their own staff.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 19:32
  #947 (permalink)  
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Heathrow operator apologises for T5 chaos

Heathrow operator apologises for T5 chaos
By John Willman and Kevin Done

Published: April 3 2008 19:58 | Last updated: April 3 2008 19:58

Passengers using Heathrow’s Terminal 5 will soon experience “impeccable service”, the new chief executive of BAA, the airport’s operator, said on Thursday.

Colin Matthews, making his first public comments since taking up his post on Tuesday, apologised for the distress suffered by passengers but refused to blame any single factor for the chaos that at one stage left more than 20,000luggage bags misplaced.

He refused to allocate blame, saying that some of the problems were on BAA’s side, some on the airline’s and some at the interface between the two.

Mr Matthews said no fundamental weakness in the £4.3bn terminal’s state-of-the-art baggage system had emerged as BAA and British Airways worked together to deal with the backlog.

“I’m very confident that the baggage system is robust and will provide a great service, as will T5 as a whole,” he said.

BA said it would be forced to cancel 34 domestic and short-haul European flights on Friday but was planning to operate a full schedule for the first time from the new terminal on Saturday.

It said it could not rule out cancellations next week.

Including the latest cancellations, BA has stopped 465 flights since the opening of the showpiece terminal last week, when mounting problems halted all baggage check-in. The airline estimated the financial impact of the chaos at about £16m, including the costs of the disruption and lost revenues.

But BA said that the performance of T5 was “steadily improving”.

The airline is due to move a further 20 per cent of its total Heathrow operations, or about 120 flights a day, from T4 to T5 on April 30. Any delay will have an impact on other carriers, which are also due to be relocated between terminals.

Mr Matthews said: “At the right time, we should sit down with BA and understand every single lesson there is to be learnt.

“I don’t want to do that too soon because we need to have clear sight of all the issues and make sure we are not tempting people to withdraw from joint working into a defensive position.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b3b5c5a6-0...nclick_check=1
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 19:40
  #948 (permalink)  
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Mr Matthews said: “At the right time, we should sit down with BA and understand every single lesson there is to be learnt.

“I don’t want to do that too soon because we need to have clear sight of all the issues and make sure we are not tempting people to withdraw from joint working into a defensive position.”
Probably the most sensible thing I've heard regarding the situation yet.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 19:47
  #949 (permalink)  
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Sir Colin Matthews

Now this is a man that was loved or lothed at BA engineering, personally i thought he was a reasonable director. However, that latest posting, the first I have heard from BAA, is somewhat respectable. Well done Mr Matthews, that's how good PR works. BA you could learn a trick or two.

Nothing grovelling, just matter of fact and business like. Proactive and straight to the point. Even a small concession to BA, shouldering a little blame for BAA's part. I mean he couldn't get away from the lift issue with an ITN reporter stuck in one. So there were infrastructure snaggs, so what, that didn't stop us getting the passengers, with luggage ready to go.

I think this is because Mr Matthews has prior experience of BA, he knows the individuals, he knows that when the 'sit down with BA' happens it will all end up being down to BA's PPP (BA's piss poor planning) and staffing issues.
 
Old 3rd Apr 2008, 19:49
  #950 (permalink)  
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As an interested outsider and user (SLF), I have followed this thread with interest. I am employed in aviation, but not in the airline industry.

I have used LHR and BA (nee BOAC) from the late fifties up to 2005 and LGW from 1990 until the same time. Generally, the experience was a positive one and frequently came across front line staff that were professional and courteous. At the end, especially at LGW, luggage was slow to arrive at the baggage hall.

Lately, I have avoided LHR and LGW, only using regional airports and debacles like this only reinforce my reasons for doing so.

As a customer, an airline HAS to achieve two things before I will consider using it, firstly, safety (obviously) and secondly, a demonstrated ability to get myself and luggage to my destination together. Price, timings, comfort, service etc are considerations which come later.

Whilst I have on occasions travelled with only hand luggage, this has been my choice and not the airlines. When taking luggage to check in, it is completely unacceptable to arrive at the airport and find that the airline will not accept checked in luggage and expect me to travel without it.

An airline that expects me to check in and travel without my luggage will NEVER get my business again. BA appears to think that it is acceptable for an airline to offer travel on this basis.

It remains to be seen whether my view is in the majority, but I think that BA has crossed the line and is now in terminal decline, unfortunately for the majority of its workforce.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 20:48
  #951 (permalink)  
 
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I think that fairly amplifies the importance of the items in passengers luggage.
Given that there are now some items I can't take in carry-on even if I'd prefer to because I value them, it is even more important for airlines to take good care of the baggage.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 21:38
  #952 (permalink)  
 
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On Friday I had the bizarre experience of a BA captain standing at the front addressing the passengers over the PA system and said,

"I have been told we have four containers of luggage loaded but I cannot assure you that it is your luggage.

I saw the apology given by the director of operations on television and I thought it was both insincere and insubstantial."

At which point I thought what a pillock and who is he trying to impress. If that is typical of aircrew these days then I will not be travelling with BA again.

Personally the bloke should be sacked - it's the most unprofessional thing I think I have seen. He needs to stick to driving the bus, that's what he is paid to do. He may have an axe to grind with the company but it should not be done in front of the customers.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 21:56
  #953 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chrisbl View Post
On Friday I had the bizarre experience of a BA captain standing at the front addressing the passengers over the PA system and said,

"I have been told we have four containers of luggage loaded but I cannot assure you that it is your luggage.

I saw the apology given by the director of operations on television and I thought it was both insincere and insubstantial."

At which point I thought what a pillock and who is he trying to impress. If that is typical of aircrew these days then I will not be travelling with BA again.

Personally the bloke should be sacked - it's the most unprofessional thing I think I have seen. He needs to stick to driving the bus, that's what he is paid to do. He may have an axe to grind with the company but it should not be done in front of the customers.
That was my brother - I'll be sure to tell him that you did not appreciate his honesty!

If you'd rather he hadn't warned you that your bags might not make it then that's your choice - my understanding of the situation is that not only were only half the bags on board but no-one could tell them which half were missing. Far better to warn people in advance than have a nasty surprise waiting at (I believe) EDI - a fact appreciated by the majority of the passengers. He may not have made any friends amongst the managers, but he tells me that a large number of the passengers thanked him for his honesty.

Would you'd rather he'd stood there and told you that everything was fine, only to find out 90 minutes later that it wasn't? Would you'd rather have had some "party-line" towing company gobshite giving you a load of bull? He could also have sat behind a locked flightdeck door to make the announcement but chose to come out front and face the fare-paying passengers when he broke the bad news. I suppose having the decency to look your customers in the eye is unprofessional, too?

In my career in aviation I have always believed that the only way to earn the respect of passengers and colleagues is honesty - and the "apology" by the company was indeed insincere and inadequate. BA screwed up by not having enough people on the ground on day one - a decision made at the highest level - yet it's the people on the shop floor taking the flak.

I can assure you that he has absolutely NO axe to grind with BA having been with then for a decade and a half - in fact he loves working there. A great deal of anger has been directed at BA personnel by passengers - see Naomi Campbell and Calvin Harris (and he should have been smart enough to make TWO copies of his album) - explaining the facts to his passengers was a way of protecting his crew. If you think that honesty and concern for colleagues/passengers are unprofessional traits, well, Ryanair have tickets available for you!

The bit that you've missed out from your quote was that he informed the passengers about the luggage problem so that they could make an informed choice as to whether or not to travel - although he did suggest that the best bet was probably to continue to destination as there was at least a 50% chance of the bags getting there.

Last edited by moggiee; 3rd Apr 2008 at 22:23.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 22:13
  #954 (permalink)  
 
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Skip back to post number 787 and see the large axe chrisbl has to grind.
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 22:21
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Originally Posted by Hand Solo View Post
Skip back to post number 787 and see the large axe chrisbl has to grind.
I wonder, did the axe go in his hand luggage or is it in Milan?

Originally Posted by Chrisbl
ABBA - Anything But BA
If that's the case, why were you even on that aeroplane?
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Old 3rd Apr 2008, 22:34
  #956 (permalink)  
 
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Kudos to the Captain, the only thing holding the whole ship together is the Nigels on the front line and the cabin crew who support them. If I had been SLF on that flight I would have been mollified, as they were all in the mess together.
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 17:21
  #957 (permalink)  
 
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Like the moderators I too felt the "T5 Chaos" thread was totally going off at a tangent.
PPRuNe exists to give rumours & news on aviation matters, not giving air time to peoples personel gripes and ego building.
So lets now have some sanity please.
Why did the T5 changeover fail so dismally.? The building is magnificant of that there is no doubt, but was it fully ready and fit for purpose, or was it let down by the people given the job of running it.?
Or were the people given the job of running it insufficiently trained,? lets face it most complex systems need some time to master. If the staff were just given a few short training periods at the new facility then what has happened in the last week was inevitable.
ie management failure.
As to the future, what will happen when BA moves all services from T4 at the end of this month, will the terminal again be found wanting.?
One problem I do foresee in the future, is either say a major power failure or bomb scare knocking out the whole terminal for a while, or much more likely a major traffic snarl up, accident etc, on the M25 close to the terminal. As this is the only significant road access into the facility, then having all your eggs in one basket could be a dangerous strategy for BA.
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 18:09
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Magnificent building, perhaps, but I feel that it may be too small. Within a short time, if traffic figures increase, it might become full, even without the Australian and Spanish services which will migrate to T3.
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 20:00
  #959 (permalink)  
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The T5 thread was hijacked by a single-issue poster, and then the bulk of the posts then became an ego-battle between that poster and others contributing. The thread was taken so far off topic by this battle that it was not worth continuing with, and needed serious editing to keep it on track.

The editing should take place earlier. The majority of posters do not realise this, and cry "Free Speech!" when that is most fundamentally NOT the imperative that should apply in here. That is why the site continually gets dragged off-topic, and dragged down.

You want "Free Speech?" Start your own site, and you've got it. Otherwise put up and shut up.

Sorry, but that is exactly how it should be. This site is too big to be left to the random element these days.
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Old 4th Apr 2008, 21:05
  #960 (permalink)  
 
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BAeng, You don't know some of our loaders well enough then. The majority of the guys work damn hard, but a small l minority group cause big big problems for the rest of us, you've only got to be around about 45 mins to an hour before shift change.

As for some of your earlier posts, yes BA management seriously screwed up, along with the usual helpful BAA, BUT are you seriously saying that groundstaff don't cause some of these problems?? I think not.

People who live in glasshouse....
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