MANSTON -3
Phileas, old chap.
You said
You said
And then you said
You may not have actually used the word "illegal", but there was a clear inference that a) she's potentiality operating on the wrong side of the law, and b) that she may end up in court as a result.
You said
Sometimes the law isn't always "black & white"
I would suggest that a "deception" has taken place
I'm not sure a court will look too favorably upon her actions
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My name isn't "chap" and I made no such suggestion that she's potentiality operating on the wrong side of the law.
Post #1306 ... LOL
Post #1306 ... LOL
The full statement..
Infratil Limited has agreed to sell Manston Airport to Lothian Shelf (710) Limited, an entity wholly owned by Ann Gloag, for cash consideration of £1 plus an adjustment for working capital variances and cash injected by Infratil between 14 October 2013 and transaction completion (which is expected to be around GBP350,000). Ann Gloag is an experienced investor who co-founded Stagecoach Group, the UK-listed public transport operator, along with her brother, Brian Souter.
“Infratil Limited is very pleased to have found an acquiror with a vision for Manston Airport’s future development.” said Marko Bogoievski, Chief Executive of Infratil. “From Infratil’s perspective, while Manston was a very small part of the company’s overall asset base, this sale will result in a more focused portfolio and improve our future cash flow position.”
“I am delighted to have purchased Manston Airport from Infratil as I believe there is real potential for growth that has not been fully captured.” said Ann Gloag.
“Having worked in the transport industry for over 30 years, I believe I am very well placed to help maximise opportunities for both freight and passengers at Manston.”
Following the sale of this asset and the proposed sale of Glasgow Prestwick Airport to the Scottish Government announced last week, Infratil expects to impair these assets by approximately GBP11 million in its half year financial statements to 30 September 2013.
Completion and settlement of the Manston Airport sale will occur on 29 November 2013 (or earlier, at the purchaser’s request), and is only conditional on matters within Infratil’s control.
Infratil Limited has agreed to sell Manston Airport to Lothian Shelf (710) Limited, an entity wholly owned by Ann Gloag, for cash consideration of £1 plus an adjustment for working capital variances and cash injected by Infratil between 14 October 2013 and transaction completion (which is expected to be around GBP350,000). Ann Gloag is an experienced investor who co-founded Stagecoach Group, the UK-listed public transport operator, along with her brother, Brian Souter.
“Infratil Limited is very pleased to have found an acquiror with a vision for Manston Airport’s future development.” said Marko Bogoievski, Chief Executive of Infratil. “From Infratil’s perspective, while Manston was a very small part of the company’s overall asset base, this sale will result in a more focused portfolio and improve our future cash flow position.”
“I am delighted to have purchased Manston Airport from Infratil as I believe there is real potential for growth that has not been fully captured.” said Ann Gloag.
“Having worked in the transport industry for over 30 years, I believe I am very well placed to help maximise opportunities for both freight and passengers at Manston.”
Following the sale of this asset and the proposed sale of Glasgow Prestwick Airport to the Scottish Government announced last week, Infratil expects to impair these assets by approximately GBP11 million in its half year financial statements to 30 September 2013.
Completion and settlement of the Manston Airport sale will occur on 29 November 2013 (or earlier, at the purchaser’s request), and is only conditional on matters within Infratil’s control.
Heathrow Harry
MANSTON had KLM arrive and flights were used,more Cargo was arriving(now at Stansted) BUT someone gave Mrs G an idea that loads of money could be made in other ways. housing?????.so a hasty closure (despite what she stated to the papers..that she had all the staff to run this very well)..staff lost jobs etc
BA regularly with MON used MSE for training purposes and many times when there was fog and bad delays at LGW and LHR..MSE was used as a diversion airport
Phileas Fogg
Agree with everything you said..you are on the right track
MANSTON had KLM arrive and flights were used,more Cargo was arriving(now at Stansted) BUT someone gave Mrs G an idea that loads of money could be made in other ways. housing?????.so a hasty closure (despite what she stated to the papers..that she had all the staff to run this very well)..staff lost jobs etc
BA regularly with MON used MSE for training purposes and many times when there was fog and bad delays at LGW and LHR..MSE was used as a diversion airport
Phileas Fogg
Agree with everything you said..you are on the right track
Let’s be honest here. The KLM flights were never more than 50% full, and I recall that loadings had actually begun to decline before Ann Gloag pulled the plug. The training and diversions, while welcome, were hardly significant, and the freight wasn’t exactly a money spinner either.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andy,
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that it was close to profitability, it wasn't anywhere close to profitability when she bought it, her people would have gone through the books before she bought it so she knew exactly what she was buying when she made this statement:
So questions remain unanswered, namely how much, if any, effort did she put in to helping to maximise opportunities for both freight and passengers at Manston?
Some might suggest that she put "diddly squat" effort in!
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that it was close to profitability, it wasn't anywhere close to profitability when she bought it, her people would have gone through the books before she bought it so she knew exactly what she was buying when she made this statement:
“I am delighted to have purchased Manston Airport from Infratil as I believe there is real potential for growth that has not been fully captured.” said Ann Gloag.
“Having worked in the transport industry for over 30 years, I believe I am very well placed to help maximise opportunities for both freight and passengers at Manston.”
“Having worked in the transport industry for over 30 years, I believe I am very well placed to help maximise opportunities for both freight and passengers at Manston.”
Some might suggest that she put "diddly squat" effort in!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't often agree with your comments PF, but I'm most certainly agreeing with you on this point. However, legally Ms Gloag can do what she wants with Manston. She probably bought it with every intention of closing the airport down, but that's business I'm afraid. She can also legally put everyone on the site out of business too. It's not her problem, which she's made very clear by her actions.
If I was running a business on the airport site and I found out that the owner had decided to close it and render my business useless at Manston, I'd probably try to take her to court as well. I suspect any judge would throw it out of court though, regardless of the reason for closing Manston, as it's really got nothing to do with them.... unfortunately.
I suspect any findings will prove she's done absolutely nothing wrong and the flying school will have to pay her compensation and court costs for the hassle.
Basically, it's a cruel world and doing business can be nasty and unfair, but in this case, unless there's proof that she's done anything illegal, she'll make a handsome profit at the expense of others.
However, it does seem immoral, but I doubt she gave any assurances that the airport would remain open for long. Even if she did, it's perfectly legal to change your mind 2 minutes later and close the place down.... doesn't make it right though.
Anyway, who ever said commercial law is about right and wrong? Nobody!
If I was running a business on the airport site and I found out that the owner had decided to close it and render my business useless at Manston, I'd probably try to take her to court as well. I suspect any judge would throw it out of court though, regardless of the reason for closing Manston, as it's really got nothing to do with them.... unfortunately.
I suspect any findings will prove she's done absolutely nothing wrong and the flying school will have to pay her compensation and court costs for the hassle.
Basically, it's a cruel world and doing business can be nasty and unfair, but in this case, unless there's proof that she's done anything illegal, she'll make a handsome profit at the expense of others.
However, it does seem immoral, but I doubt she gave any assurances that the airport would remain open for long. Even if she did, it's perfectly legal to change your mind 2 minutes later and close the place down.... doesn't make it right though.
Anyway, who ever said commercial law is about right and wrong? Nobody!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't often agree with your comments PF, but I'm most certainly agreeing with you on this point.
"Deception" is actually a criminal act in England & Wales, and she ain't from either, but trying to read in to it if she may have committed a crime or not ... well it causes me a headache
I think, perhaps, you’re over-complicating things. If you think about it, there were only two parties involved; Ann Gloag and Infratil. So ask yourself this – did Ann Gloag obtain Manston Airport from Infratil through an act of deception? Would Infratil’s decision to sell to her have been any different if they had known, or suspected, that she had no intention of continuing to run the place as an airport??
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andy,
With all due respect you're boring me now, she bought the airport on the clear pretence that she planned to turn things around.
Now, one or more airport businesses are taking her to court because she made diddly squat attempt to turn things around before she closed shop.
Now go and ask a lawyer to pick the bones out of that
With all due respect you're boring me now, she bought the airport on the clear pretence that she planned to turn things around.
Now, one or more airport businesses are taking her to court because she made diddly squat attempt to turn things around before she closed shop.
Now go and ask a lawyer to pick the bones out of that
Phileas,
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
The "airport businesses" are, for want of a better phrase, innocent bystanders. They weren't involved in the sale to Ann Gloag. How can she have deceived them when they had no legal input or say in the matter?
It’s possible, I grant you, that Manston Airport - as the landlord – may have broken a contract with the tenants. Without knowing the wording of such contracts I could only speculate, but I guess it would come down to notice periods, break clauses and the like.
As to the morality of Ann Gloag's actions, probably only she will know whether she purchased the place to run as a going concern or always intended to close it down. That makes it very difficult for anyone to prove that she acted in anything other than good faith.
I'm not defending her. Just saying........
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
The "airport businesses" are, for want of a better phrase, innocent bystanders. They weren't involved in the sale to Ann Gloag. How can she have deceived them when they had no legal input or say in the matter?
It’s possible, I grant you, that Manston Airport - as the landlord – may have broken a contract with the tenants. Without knowing the wording of such contracts I could only speculate, but I guess it would come down to notice periods, break clauses and the like.
As to the morality of Ann Gloag's actions, probably only she will know whether she purchased the place to run as a going concern or always intended to close it down. That makes it very difficult for anyone to prove that she acted in anything other than good faith.
I'm not defending her. Just saying........
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phileas,
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andy may I suggest you don't respond to Phileas because his posts become more and more aggressive. So much so that last week the mods had to close
The SEN thread.
Phileas you say you have a business to run, please do Pprune a favour and get on with it, so the rest of us can discuss aviation matters in a civilised way.
The SEN thread.
Phileas you say you have a business to run, please do Pprune a favour and get on with it, so the rest of us can discuss aviation matters in a civilised way.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
last week the mods had to close The SEN thread.
Correction - the mods chose to close the SEN thread. Presumably because it's less trouble to destroy a lot of good posts than deal with a few easily identified troublemakers.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andy may I suggest you don't respond to Phileas because his posts become more and more aggressive. So much so that last week the mods had to close
The SEN thread.
Phileas you say you have a business to run, please do Pprune a favour and get on with it, so the rest of us can discuss aviation matters in a civilised way.
The SEN thread.
Phileas you say you have a business to run, please do Pprune a favour and get on with it, so the rest of us can discuss aviation matters in a civilised way.
Quote:
last week the mods had to close The SEN thread.
Correction - the mods chose to close the SEN thread. Presumably because it's less trouble to destroy a lot of good posts than deal with a few easily identified troublemakers.
last week the mods had to close The SEN thread.
Correction - the mods chose to close the SEN thread. Presumably because it's less trouble to destroy a lot of good posts than deal with a few easily identified troublemakers.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phileas,
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
Sorry if I'm boring you, but you seem to have an obsession with the notion that a criminal act of deception may have occurred.
If we can please put this one to bed please.
What you are saying is that she has NOT done anything illegal and you say that with limited if any knowledge of what was may have been said, agreed, and/or signed.
I have no knowledge of what was may have been said, agreed, and/or signed so I couldn't reasonably state or claim that she has acted illegally, you're saying she hasn't and all I'm saying is "I'm not so sure, perhaps it isn't so black and white".
Now PLEASE can we agree to differ and move on.
Thanks
I'm sure no-one really knows the substance of the case that airport users may have against Ann Gloag.
Rather than deception, I suspect it is more likely to be a civil case for compensation as a result of the withdrawal of services under the terms of a lease or contract.
The airport users will be faced with disruption costs, and will want to recover them from the person they see as responsible for the disruption.
Rather than deception, I suspect it is more likely to be a civil case for compensation as a result of the withdrawal of services under the terms of a lease or contract.
The airport users will be faced with disruption costs, and will want to recover them from the person they see as responsible for the disruption.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The glasshouse, a stone's throw from you
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is history repeating itself with Lydd? Rich owner, building infrastructure in a low populated area. Not sure why he didn't go for Manston, much of the work he plans to do is done and no restrictions on approach.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hither and Thither
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't look like it is on the cusp of re-opening - some bargains to be had I'm sure.
http://www.ppauctions.com/_assets/au...t/Flysheet.pdf
http://www.ppauctions.com/_assets/au...t/Flysheet.pdf