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British Airways to buy 12 A380s

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British Airways to buy 12 A380s

Old 27th Sep 2007, 16:38
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Not one single bit of staff consultation
Are you sure about that? I guess that you have never tried to buy an airliner, lot more to it than just the economics!

Mutt
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 17:09
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsound View Post
Quite right T-Rotor - I should have mentioned the Boeings as well. I just thought the Airbus order was a tad more surprising.
airsound
Not at all surprising - BA have always hinted that they were taking the aeroplane seriously and given that they are already an Airbus customer (Boeing monopoly broken at last) it was really just a matter of time.

As BA have said in the past, though, they just don't want to be launch customers for any new type - let someone else have the delays.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 17:19
  #43 (permalink)  

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Am I mistaken in thinking Airbus wanted its A380 customers to be heavy Airbus users already, or was A32x enough?
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 17:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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At least the A380 is good news for Staff Travel.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 17:53
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Am I mistaken in thinking Airbus wanted its A380 customers to be heavy Airbus users already, or was A32x enough?
I suspect you are. I don't think Airbus really care if anyone who buys the A380 has previously bought a single one of their aircraft. A sale is a sale.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 18:45
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Aircraft Dimensions

747-400 Length 70.6 metres,Wingspan 59.6 metres Tail height 19.4 metres

787 Length 57 metres, Wingspan 60 metres, Tail height 17 metres

A380 Length 73 Metres, Wingspan 79.8 metres, Tail height 24 metres.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I can confirm that the A380 will not fit into any of our existing hangars at LHR without modifications/extensions to accommodate the tail due to it's height. As pointed out the A380 tail is nearly 5m higher than the
B747-400.

Due to it's wingspan the A380 will not able to pass TBA to get into the East Pen whilst the perimeter road in it's current alignment.

To give people some idea of the scale of the A380 the span across the horizontal stabs on the A380 is greater than the wingspan of a B737-400 !

The B787, being smaller than the B777 will fit in to all our existing WB bays with some modifications to docking as necessary.

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Commercial & Business Planning BA
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 18:50
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

"To give people some idea of the scale of the A380 the span across the horizontal stabs on the A380 is greater than the wingspan of a B737-400 ! "

That does put things into perspective!!!

Good news for BA. I'm sure the A380 will prove a good work horse for the airline as is the B744. I'll look forward to travelling on it in a few years time in BA colours.

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Old 27th Sep 2007, 21:10
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Just reading Wiki about the 747-8 I saw this:
The General Electric GEnx, which is one of the two powerplant choices currently offered for the 787, will be the only engine available for the 747-8. However, the 747 variant will be adapted to provide bleed-air for conventional aircraft systems and feature a smaller diameter to fit on the 747 wing. An exclusivity agreement between GE and Boeing, means no other manufacturers engine can be fitted the 747-8 within at least 10 years.
Is that a good marketing move, if true?
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 21:50
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Oh no !!!!!!!!! that means I have to spend 25 weeks in the training centre to get the authorisation!
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 23:22
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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So a longhaul mix of 380's 744's 777's 787's and 767's. Am sure this will help Terminal 5 run smooth, best sit back and enjoy the show.
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Old 27th Sep 2007, 23:23
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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possibly necessary

Is that a good marketing move, if true?
Possibly a necessary one to motivate GE. The adaptation of the engine is no small investment for the engine manufacturer. They definitely don't volunteer to provide a suitable engine for every model of every airplane.

Also a pretty big savings to Boeing. The question is what the customers think--seems to be working OK on some 777 models.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 01:35
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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First British A380s

The first British Airways' A380s will arrive in 2012 (6 aircraft in FY 2012/13 and the other 6 in FY2013/14).

This means the first A380s on the British register will be British Airways' aircraft instead of the Virgin A380s which are due to arrive in 2013.

Quite ironic when you think about the publicity Branson sought when he claimed Virgin was one of the launch customers for the A380.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 08:07
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding Heathrow hangars - I thought the whole point of T5 was that it would be big enough to accomodate A380s? Surely it's a shortsight on BA's part if they have to modify all their hangars now?!

And about engine choice, I heard there might've beeen a back-door deal between WW and Gordon Brown - that if the engine manufacturer was RR (thereby creating badly needed jobs/business within the country, etc.), Brown would move on some of the luggage restrictions and APD in return... Interesting thought
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 09:30
  #54 (permalink)  

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Snoop

Hhmmm! Toulouse or Seattle? Choices, choices, So Seattle it is then! A bit of a 'no brainer' really
Regarding hangarage there are plans for 2-4 new bays.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 12:06
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For all those asking about replacements for the rest of the 744 fleet,

this is from the announcement:

"British Airways will continue to consider the most suitable aircraft to replace
its remaining B747-400 aircraft and is examining the B787-10, B777-300 ER and A350XWB"

No mention of timing.

A previous BA CEO stated that, at least between 744s and 777s, he'd gladly have swapped some 744s for 777s as the latter gave greater flexibility across the network; however there was no stated desire to be rid of all of the higher-capacity type. So here we have a type which can replace (say) two 772s a day with one set of landing fees and crew, etc. or simply dump more capacity onto a route (eg. NY).

So I, for one, would not be surprised to see a follow-on order for 380s, but I would be surprised to see 1-for-1 replacement of 744s with 380s. They'll buy enough that can be employed 14+ hrs a day - so one arriving from HK at 06.00 can be on its way to JFK by 08.00, then back off to hk again at 23.00 - not coming in from the far east in the a.m and sitting there until the night.

What I find interesting about the quote above, is effectively putting the 787-10 into competition with the 773ER. This must surely put pressure on Boeing to launch the -10, which will kill off at least part of the 777 programme, given the pent-up demand for the -10 (based on past statements by the likes of QF, EK, SQ, etc.).

As for big-Airbus experience for the drivers - what would be the odds of some Nigels popping up on the odd Rat 380 or RAF 330 MRTTs... ??
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 12:14
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If they send it to JFK at 8am it'll be going half empty and won't be back until the next day. JFK is likely to be the last route they use it on, unless it's for training or to clear a major backlog, it makes no commercial sense.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 12:17
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The A 380 had to be the choice for the larger aircraft as BA has to maximise the seats per slot in this bracket. If anything the current model is too small to give substantial seat mile cost benefits over the 747 and a stretch is both highly desirable and inevitable. The current model is the A 318 of the A380 family and carries a lot of the weight of a much larger aircraft.Its stretch potential up to 800 -900 seats is there.
The 787 is a clear 767-300 replacement and as result leaves a gap for a 350 seater twin which is where the contest between 777-300 and A 350 will lie.
In capacity terms the present order is pretty much a hull for a hull so allows little , if any, frequency or route coverage growth,- just 4% per annum based on aircraft size, so it's hardly exciting and indicates that BA will continue to be (over) dependent on its relatively slow growing Atlantic business and will not be going for the high growth markets in Asia from, which it has substantially withdrawn in the last ten years.
As for the need for additional capacity and parking around TBA , any expansion ever of the BA fleet in aircraft size and numbers raises serious questions about the sense of giving over so much of the former maintainence area to non engineering and even non aviation activities. Not safeguarding the space for future needs has always looked extremely short sighted on the part of both BA and the BAA, but it is unfortunately very much the UK way.
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 13:08
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I am surprised at BA's annoucement in some ways...

BA seem to go for quick fixes in the current market - when you are ordering something you would have for 15-20 years you wonder if these aircraft are the solution to BA's future long-term requirements...

Yes, they are going for the 'green' vote and the slots situation omnipresent at heathrow.

I really thought the 747-8 would figure, i believe the A380 and it's 'oversize' in comparison could leave the door open for trouble in terms of unproven product/impact of delays and disruption, and also loss of revenue if they don't fill it up, like they always can with the 744...

I thought the A350 was a better contender than the 787 too, with proven technology and better size for longhaul operations...trouble is,it may be too far off, though perhaps they could turn the later A380 options in to A350 if the market dictated so.

Also, surely the 777-300ER stood a chance in this category, it will be interesting to see what made their final decisions...

BA doesn't tend to take risks, we have yet to see composite (whole) structured airliners take to the skies, and double decker ultra high capacity airliners too . . . they have learn't some hard lessons with the first 777's and the 767 engine pylon problems, i only hope that the 380 and 787 will have ironed out their initial problems by the time they roll up to T5 in BA colours !

I also hope that the A380 will be a darn sight more comfortable than BA's A321's.......

Finally , i hope they haven't ordered one plane too large, one too small, and both with untested (service-wise) technologies.....
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 13:08
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Several years ago, before I retired, there were plans in exsistance to build a new large hangar on the area of what was the Eastchurch crossing, and as that is now closed I would asume that it will ba built there.

Tristar 500
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 13:26
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Slots used for an A380

BA states that one its reasons to select the A380 is to gain greater capacity at slot-limited airports such as LHR. It was my understanding that the A380 had wake turbulence issues, and that spacing distances behind it needed to be enlarged. This would suggest that the A380 might need to use 1.5 or 2 standard heavy slots per takeoff/landing.
Has this issue been resolved? Will the A380 require greater spacing? Or will it be able to trade slots on a one-for-one basis with a 744/777/340?
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