View Poll Results: Should BA order the B747-8i?
Yes
423
26.93%
No
603
38.38%
Who cares?
545
34.69%
Voters: 1571. This poll is closed
British Airways to buy 12 A380s
Rainboe - you talk a good talk, but you seem to assume unlimited long term growth in long haul air travel and that airlines, as they replace 747's, will migrate to bigger rather than smaller replacements. I think that's far from proven.
Speaking from a passengers perspective, the last couple of trips I've flown to the Far East (K-L on Malaysian and Bangkok on Thai) were on 747-400's that were just 50%-60% full. I wondered, even then, how these airlines could justify purchasing the A380. I wonder how many purchases of the A380 are political in nature - either from countries who are directly or indirectly part owners of Airbus or from airlines which regard ownership of the worlds biggest passenger jet as a matter of honour - rather than driven by purely economic factors.
Undoubtedly there is demand for a super large long haul aircraft on certain routes and for which the A380 is the only game in town. The question has to be are there really enough such routes for Airbus to recover their costs.
Speaking from a passengers perspective, the last couple of trips I've flown to the Far East (K-L on Malaysian and Bangkok on Thai) were on 747-400's that were just 50%-60% full. I wondered, even then, how these airlines could justify purchasing the A380. I wonder how many purchases of the A380 are political in nature - either from countries who are directly or indirectly part owners of Airbus or from airlines which regard ownership of the worlds biggest passenger jet as a matter of honour - rather than driven by purely economic factors.
Undoubtedly there is demand for a super large long haul aircraft on certain routes and for which the A380 is the only game in town. The question has to be are there really enough such routes for Airbus to recover their costs.
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You travel on BA, Qantas and SIA to and from the Far East, and see if you are 50-60% full! You have no idea how many people move on these routes- not to KL, but with majors to the big destinations. Also, show me a time when bigger equipment was available and nobody would buy it! Big = economic. Take-offs = slots (short supply and expensive). Night landing slots are valuable. And exactly what do you believe is going to stop the exponential growth in travel? Hundreds of millions of Indians are just sliding into the middle classes, along with lots of Chinese who will want to be travelling in the next 10 years. Computers are good, but 'virtual tourism' doesn't work. The western world is getting richer and richer. The eastern world is getting risher and richer- everybody is (except Africa, but that's a loser and always has been). South America is getting wealthy....why do people believe growth will stop? Are they short sighted?
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Well said Rainbow, countries from the Eastern side of the world are getting wealthier and very powerful, it will not be long till tens of millions of people will want to explore.
I work for Newcastle University where alot of research is done on the impact of travelling by road rail and air. The models they use for predicted growth in all sectors is substantial. Which is why there is alot of panic about the effects on global warming (although i seriously doubt we have caused this)
I work for Newcastle University where alot of research is done on the impact of travelling by road rail and air. The models they use for predicted growth in all sectors is substantial. Which is why there is alot of panic about the effects on global warming (although i seriously doubt we have caused this)
sorry rainboe (not rainbow as previously posted)
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I have read the previous pages with great interest. No doubt there are many views about the viability of BA purchasing the 380.
As SLF I will not be travelling on the 380. There is nowhere in the world I want to travel to that includes sharing the air 500+ others have exhaled. God forbid there should an accident in which 450+ half wits who did not watch/understand the safety briefing, or if they did are too inebriated or dumb to unbuckle their seat belts to try and evacuate the aircraft.
Where I want to go can be easily accomplished by road (in my Range Rover Sport - oohh carbon foot print alert) watching the world go by and if I get tired its time to stop, check into a hotel, relax and continue to watch the world go by.
As SLF I will not be travelling on the 380. There is nowhere in the world I want to travel to that includes sharing the air 500+ others have exhaled. God forbid there should an accident in which 450+ half wits who did not watch/understand the safety briefing, or if they did are too inebriated or dumb to unbuckle their seat belts to try and evacuate the aircraft.
Where I want to go can be easily accomplished by road (in my Range Rover Sport - oohh carbon foot print alert) watching the world go by and if I get tired its time to stop, check into a hotel, relax and continue to watch the world go by.
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Would you get in a 747-8? as far as I know the Boeing AirCon Pacs are the same, or at least certified to the same stnd
Why do you think major airlines with significant infrastructure developments have taken the A380?...
The only place you can get to by road in a clapped out British museum piece is over the bridge to Saudi...or round and round Bahrain
'watching the world go by' from 2 meters AGL. Get your self a Sky box mate and knock off the Blue Sapphire before posting
Why do you think major airlines with significant infrastructure developments have taken the A380?...
The only place you can get to by road in a clapped out British museum piece is over the bridge to Saudi...or round and round Bahrain
'watching the world go by' from 2 meters AGL. Get your self a Sky box mate and knock off the Blue Sapphire before posting
God forbid there should an accident in which 450+ half wits ...
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Fareastdriver:
Keep ears closer to the ground there Fraeast; China Southern placed an order for 5 x A380s couple of years ago! One shall be very surprised if Air China choose not to venture along the same path.
Keep ears closer to the ground there Fraeast; China Southern placed an order for 5 x A380s couple of years ago! One shall be very surprised if Air China choose not to venture along the same path.
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Thirty Eight South
No I would not get into a 747-8.
As for watching the world go by at 2 AGL, I do that in my rather more 'mundane earth bound forms of transport' and as I watch an 'office' fly overhead that makes me quite comfortable thank you.
You must be the first person I have come across who has recommended a Skybox for the ME region. Are they available?
I presume your reference to Blue Sapphire is something to do with alcohol, wrong suggestion unless its something you think that a non-drinker should try
Back to the thread, mine is a personal view. The aircraft is undoubtedly a major feat of engineering, certainly not pretty to look at, still if it moves passenger halfway round the world and makes money for the operators that must be good news.
No I would not get into a 747-8.
As for watching the world go by at 2 AGL, I do that in my rather more 'mundane earth bound forms of transport' and as I watch an 'office' fly overhead that makes me quite comfortable thank you.
You must be the first person I have come across who has recommended a Skybox for the ME region. Are they available?
I presume your reference to Blue Sapphire is something to do with alcohol, wrong suggestion unless its something you think that a non-drinker should try
Back to the thread, mine is a personal view. The aircraft is undoubtedly a major feat of engineering, certainly not pretty to look at, still if it moves passenger halfway round the world and makes money for the operators that must be good news.
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Emirates can't be barking up the wrong tree. Tim Clark was singing the economic advantages recently, with 2 extra years of maturity to sort out the glitches, they must have a fair idea of what's going on
Sky box, sport? I haven't got a clue in Bahrain; I live in a rainy land, guzzling the blue stuff with ice and tonic normally...cheers!!
Sky box, sport? I haven't got a clue in Bahrain; I live in a rainy land, guzzling the blue stuff with ice and tonic normally...cheers!!
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Just a question I'd like to see peoples opinions on not necessarily directed at BA but all airlines purchasing the super jumbo.
Most management grades are rated pay in accordance with roles, responsibilities and most of all quantity of people they manage. With the safety for 500+ paxs on the new gen a/c thats a few people more we care for up there.
Safety is paramount that you cannot put a price on and should be regardless off size, but should the guys and gals flying and signing off be paid accordingly for these extra personnel responsibilies??
Cheers
B
Most management grades are rated pay in accordance with roles, responsibilities and most of all quantity of people they manage. With the safety for 500+ paxs on the new gen a/c thats a few people more we care for up there.
Safety is paramount that you cannot put a price on and should be regardless off size, but should the guys and gals flying and signing off be paid accordingly for these extra personnel responsibilies??
Cheers
B
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For sure. As a 757 pilot gets paid more than a Navajo pilot, and a 747 gets paid more, so the A380 will be top earning. That's how it works everywhere else in the economy, and that is how it will work in aviation, like it or not. The airlines have largely not even started negotiating pay rates for the A380 yet. It may well come to A380s sitting around not being flown (as did the 747 initially in a big very British Airline) until rates are agreed. Big aeroplane, frightening responsibility.
FFF
I knew, but didn't have it in writing, that China Southern had ordered them as I had already seen their pictures. Shenzhen (Boan) has a catchment of some twenty-five million people and Air China and China Southern could keep half a dozen 380s fully occupied on just the Shenzhen-Beijing run alone. They would have to build a new pier though. Not a big problem, eight or nine months on the outside.
I knew, but didn't have it in writing, that China Southern had ordered them as I had already seen their pictures. Shenzhen (Boan) has a catchment of some twenty-five million people and Air China and China Southern could keep half a dozen 380s fully occupied on just the Shenzhen-Beijing run alone. They would have to build a new pier though. Not a big problem, eight or nine months on the outside.
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Rott Rainboe: During the BALPA grounding of BOAC 747/100 Brian Trubshawe, BAC Concorde CTP, at an Air Britain Test Pilots' Forum was asked for a view. Courteous chap declined to comment on folk negotiating their deal. Just said that he: flew the family at the local club; flew the Chairman, in the house taxi; and pushed out the envelope on the SST. One constant operations standard: his ass.
