Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Airlines, Airports & Routes
Reload this Page >

MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07

Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07

Old 19th Sep 2007, 22:11
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,438
Looks like the note from the American pilot posted earlier has made it to the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811
Airbubba is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 04:36
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 110
The anonymous pilot, unleashing his anger at the alleged neglect through an internet chat line for professional pilots
They can't even admit they got it from here...
PA38-Pilot is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 07:17
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 81
Posts: 450
Response time

I have seen no evidence what the response time was. The critical remarks seem to relate to the Swedish video. All the shots in this video have views from say 330 through to 135 degrees, nothing westerly from which the response was coming. Note the 09 distance remaining board 4 so the scene is a mile from 27 threshold. Now the firetrucks are to the south and the accident is to the north, so say a total of 1.2 miles to travel from a standing start in a heavily loaden truck with atleast 2 turns on a wet surface. Required average to be there in 1 min 72 m.p.h.!!!!!!!!! The final tenth on grass with a limestoney derived clay base (glue?).
Some later still shots show 2 sets of tracks on the grass indicating considerable wheel spin from the 2 heavy fire trucks.
Remarks about the video in most of the shots to the east the poor vis is due to smoke and water on the lens.
Pom Pax is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 13:15
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 48
GA rumo[u]r from Thai aviation official

From today's The Nation (Bangkok daily):
Vutichai Singhamany, a safety director at the Department of Civil Aviation, had earlier told Agence France-Presse that the pilot had put the landing gear down on his approach to Phuket in a heavy storm, but retracted it and then tried in vain to pull up.

"The wheels did not touch the runway," Vutichai told AFP. "Then the plane tried to pull up and the accident happened."
Do keep in mind that something does not become a fact simply because a Thai aviation official says it to be so.
wideman is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 15:45
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somewhere in the Tropics UTC+7 to 9
Posts: 450


What are these three ground indentations ? Landing gear? Or landing gear during retraction at the time of the impact?

Looks like it didn't touch and went towards the fence... somehow...

PK-KAR
PK-KAR is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 16:12
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,248
What are these three ground indentations ? Landing gear? Or landing gear during retraction at the time of the impact?
Tricky photo. scale doesn't seem to match landing gear. Could be tail plus Starboard engine
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 16:36
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Africa / Thailand
Age: 67
Posts: 10
From the Phuket Gazette :

PHUKET AIRPORT: Survivors and the families of those who died in the crash landing of One-Two-Go flight OG269 on Sunday will each receive an insurance payout of US$150,000 (about 5 million baht), Udom Thantprasongchai, managing director of Orient Thai, which operates One-Two-Go, said today.

Speaking to the press at Phuket Airport Office, K. Udom explained that One-Two-Go had already offered up to 50,000 baht for each survivor’s clothing and other immediate basic needs.

“We are insured up to US$300 million… We are currently working on the documents and fine-checking the contracts,” said K. Udom.

Families of Thais who died in the crash will also receive 100,000 baht per victim to cover funeral costs.

Last edited by BoughtMyPoints; 20th Sep 2007 at 20:02.
BoughtMyPoints is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 16:42
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 44
yes!

I would second that!

And I'm, originally, from a third world country.

Was given a job to fly the A320, but declined after finding out that they switched their training from a First Class facilty in France to a third class facility in Jordan. You know why...because most of their pilots were failing training event in France...and in Jordan, they have 100% pass ratio.

Said it all for me. No thanks. My life is more important thatn flying a A320. Very happy now flying a most modern jet here in the US after training at one of the toughest and best training facilities in the world.

Personally, I will have tough time flying with or as a passenger on a plane with an Indonesian pilot!

And yes, originally, I'm from a Third World country.
Perwazee is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 17:07
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 14
nothing wrong with indon pilots

Hi there betterave, I remember you from 757 days.The comments on indon pilots is a low blow, some of the best(and worst) come from there.The same for every country.We are best served by directing our venom at the owners of OX type companies who will encourage dodgy operations in the interest of making a buck, but exposing poor unsuspecting pax to too much risk going from A to B.I could write a book about what goes on there, but whats the point in a corrupt system?.Waste of time.
The Reverend N is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 18:39
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 45
Posts: 118
Angel

98.Mr Stephen Saunby R.I.P.

Only just got married and was on his honeymoon, only just brought my local pub and was going to run it on his return.

Hits home when its someone you know..
hollywood285 is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2007, 19:16
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posts: 14
To The Reverend N - Nothing about Indonesian pilots

I do not belive I posted any low-blow against Indonesian pilots. What I said was that I advised friends against flying on low-cost carriers in the Far-East, except those owned by the national carriers. The main reason for that was the fact I had little faith in these airlines.

My experience at OX really opened my eyes! Prior to then my knowledge of low-cost carriers consisted of what I know about Southwest, Westjet, and Jet Blue. I had thought all low-cost carriers were like them! The OX experience of course shattered that because I learned that not all carriers have equal selection and training process for pilots, and that there are blatant abuse of rules and regulations.

You will encounter good and not so good pilots everywhere. IMHO, even a pilot with good aircraft handling skills but bad airmanship is dangerous. Unfortunately we read about too many accidents that could have been easily avoided.

It is prudent for an airline to save money, but to save money by avoiding replacing defective parts or forcing pilots to exceed duty limitiations to avoid commercial deadheads and layover hotels is simply dangerous!

What I tried to explain (apparently not so successfully) was that becasue of our western background, the B752 pilots at OX spoke up when there were issues with maintenance and duty limitiations, whereas sometimes that did not happen with the B747 fleet. I could say very little about the MD-80 fleet since I left soon after they were introduced - the only facts I knew was that the MD-80 pay was lower than that for the B747/752 and the new-hire pilots were told that to expect 26 duty days a month! I suspect the main reason that the OX B752s were replaced by the MD-80s was the fact that us B752 pilots stood up against the management's abuse (Yes a MD-80 is cheaper to own and operate than a B-752 but it could not have been cheaper to have many more MD-80s than a few B-752s.) I am sure you have more knowledge of the abuse and corruptions that was happening...

From what I seen in Thailand, many Thais will simply do whatever they are asked and OX "management" took full advantage of that. I suspect that it is the same in many other countries in the region - from what I have read about Adam Air, it is a clone of OX. Obviously there are many more similar operations around. That is the main reason I have little faith in these low-cost carriers and advised friends against flying on them.

As I mentioned before, IMHO, the fault of the accident lies with the OX "management" for abusing the pilots and also with DCA for looking the other way.

Hopefully my ramblings have made more sense to you.

And again hopefully we will not read about similar accidents in the future...
betterave is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 01:21
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,162
From the limiting visibility of the video it doesn't appear that any folks were assisting passengers get off/out of the aircraft.
misd-agin is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 01:40
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: bangkok
Posts: 85
Devil CFR response

After studying all the videos and looking at an approximate time-line, the CFR response was only after about 3 minutes

This is much too slow. I am sure, if the response would have been within the 90 seconds, more people would have survived.
ads1963 is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 02:00
  #174 (permalink)  
The Reverend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
This is much too slow. I am sure, if the response would have been within the 90 seconds, more people would have survived.
The only way they could have responded within 90 seconds, if the fire engines and personnel were on board the aircraft when it crashed.
HotDog is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 02:44
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 63
Air France accident in Toronto. CFR was on the scene in 56 seconds.
jurassicjockey is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 03:43
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Down south, USA.
Posts: 1,589
Snoop

Betterave:

A very minor point here, but let's clarify for pilots outside of the US that Southwest Airlines, although it is called 'low cost', in general, has high salary airline staff. There appear to be misunderstandings about Southwest on PPRuNe among many foreign pilots. Maybe among US pilots and those who misrepresent themselves.

The phrase 'low-cost' is sometimes quite misleading, and seems to portray such pilots as being paid less than most other pilots who fly the same type.
At Southwest, the pilots are probably the highest-paid B-737 pilots in the Western Hemisphere, possibly in the whole world. This contradicts the common portrayal of 'low-cost' pilots. And at SWA they do not pay for trivial typical things such as a cup of coffee from the 737 galley, or for an airline ball point pen (Stilo, Kugel-), as is alleged at the European darling 'low-cost' carrier, RyanAir. The mentality is quite different.

And based on new contracts at several US major airlines, as we (here) are well aware, most of us could also be described as 'low-cost', when our hourly salaries are often similar to that at 'low-cost' carrier Airtran (formerly ValueJet, whose Upper Mgmt was so publicly shamed by its incompetent "leadership", so to speak, that it changed its name...). Airbus salaries for thousands of US pilots can also be less than for JetBlue A-320 pilots (where each pilot is reportedly an "Army of One", with individual contracts {divide and conquer}).

Those '757/767 hotels' can be very nice, if you have hotel language in your contract as good as that in Delta's contract.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 03:43
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1
...the note from the American pilot posted earlier has made it to the Daily Mail

The article refers to the writer as a "former pilot" and "former airline employee", things I did not gather from reading the post.

If he was not a former employee, I'm sure OX will try to make him one soon.
wurgin is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 03:58
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Switzerland, Singapore
Posts: 1,306
Quite correct, Ignition override, there is a distinctive parallelity between pilot salary and airline safety.

But once again, it's not about low cost carrier. There is no real difference between low cost and other carriers, but between safety cultures.

Lots of main carrier in Asia have had a miserable safety record, if you look at Taiwan and Korea. Only after integrating rigid policies in western style, their situation has changed.

Probably the best indicator for a safe airline industry is the corruption index of a country. Also this is obvious. If there is no free trade and respect of your business partner, there is also no gain in producing safety.

In certain countries, I don't care if its a low cost or a main carrier, I just don't board the plane!

Dani
Dani is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 04:19
  #179 (permalink)  
The Reverend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
CFR Response; the following from Pom Pax:
The critical remarks seem to relate to the Swedish video. All the shots in this video have views from say 330 through to 135 degrees, nothing westerly from which the response was coming. Note the 09 distance remaining board 4 so the scene is a mile from 27 threshold. Now the firetrucks are to the south and the accident is to the north, so say a total of 1.2 miles to travel from a standing start in a heavily loaden truck with atleast 2 turns on a wet surface. Required average to be there in 1 min 72 m.p.h.!!!!!!!!! The final tenth on grass with a limestoney derived clay base (glue?).
Some later still shots show 2 sets of tracks on the grass indicating considerable wheel spin from the 2 heavy fire trucks.
HotDog is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2007, 06:28
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: i don't know
Posts: 320
Quite correct, Ignition override, there is a distinctive parallelity between pilot salary and airline safety.

But once again, it's not about low cost carrier. There is no real difference between low cost and other carriers, but between safety cultures.

Lots of main carrier in Asia have had a miserable safety record, if you look at Taiwan and Korea. Only after integrating rigid policies in western style, their situation has changed.

Probably the best indicator for a safe airline industry is the corruption index of a country. Also this is obvious. If there is no free trade and respect of your business partner, there is also no gain in producing safety.

In certain countries, I don't care if its a low cost or a main carrier, I just don't board the plane!
Must be your best contribution on PPRuNe, Dani!
GMDS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.