MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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On almost every day at every every airport in Asia during the summer there are warnings of "Windshear all runways". This is not unusual and rarely disrupts the normal pattern of take off and landings.
The difference is when you see a major storm on radar close to your approach and landing area. I have been on the ground in Phuket (actually on a boat to the east of the island) when, on the approach of a thunderstorm, the wind increased from zero to sixty knots over the deck in a period of ninety seconds. The squall lasted for forty five minutes at this intensity with blinding torrential rain and zero visibilty. Bad time to be on approach!
The difference is when you see a major storm on radar close to your approach and landing area. I have been on the ground in Phuket (actually on a boat to the east of the island) when, on the approach of a thunderstorm, the wind increased from zero to sixty knots over the deck in a period of ninety seconds. The squall lasted for forty five minutes at this intensity with blinding torrential rain and zero visibilty. Bad time to be on approach!
Mr Chaisawat said his committee still could not say who should be held responsible for the crash, but the cause must be established quickly for future air safety.
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Heidelberg, your categorization effort looks quite alright for me. But Thai Air Asia and Air Asia is basically the same. Air Asia is somewhat not as bad as other airlines, but also not on the same level as national carrier and the other mentioned LCC, Jetstar and Tiger. The last two are flown mainly by western crews and managed by western managers, so you couldn't find a difference to US LCC.
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Thanks Dani for the info on the varioius airlines operating around Asia.
I've flown with Jetstar (A320) Sydney/Hamilton Island/Sydney which has a RWY 5984 feet. I also flew to Christchurch from SYD with them. The impression I got was a very professional outfit as I would expect from a Qantas owned airline.
I've flown with Jetstar (A320) Sydney/Hamilton Island/Sydney which has a RWY 5984 feet. I also flew to Christchurch from SYD with them. The impression I got was a very professional outfit as I would expect from a Qantas owned airline.
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From today's Gazette
Thursday, September 27, 2007
One-Two-Go crash probe points to wind shear, pilot decision
BANGKOK (Nation): The probe into the crash of One-Two-Go flight OG029 points to wind shear and the pilot’s decision to land despite weather warnings as likely causes, the air crash investigation committee has announced.
“The initial finding, which encompasses the weather conditions at the time of the accident, communications between the tower and the crashed plane’s pilot as well as other witnesses points to a single conclusion,” said Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, permanent secretary of the Transport Ministry and chairman of the committee.
“However, we can’t confirm this until we get the black box decoding result. So far, there has been no contradictory report from the black box,” he told reporters after a meeting of aviation-related organizations.
The evidence showed the pilot and aircraft were in good condition, he said.
Radio communications between the tower and the pilot of an Orient Thai Airlines MD82 plane that landed four minutes before OG029 showed there was wind shear and the pilot had asked controllers to alert the next plane due to land.
The tower duly informed the OG029 pilot of weather and runway conditions, but it could not bar him from landing as that was his decision, he said.
Analysis of the black box should be completed tomorrow and the committee would reconvene and compare the data with its initial finding.
If the two sources did not contradict, the panel would seek the transport minister’s permission to reveal the official cause of the accident to the public, probably early next month.
Otherwise, experts would be appointed for an in-depth analysis and that would take a while.
Attending the meeting were the Civil Aviation Department, Airports of Thailand Plc, Thai Airways International, Aeronautical Radio of Thailand, Civil Aviation Training Center and Thai Pilots’ Association.
Air Vice-Marshall Vinai Plengvithaya, deputy director of air inspection and vice chairman of the committee, noted that in inspecting an air crash wreckage should be maintained in its original condition. However, in the OG029 case, all evidence had not been collected because the debris was removed to help the injured and clear the runway.
If the black box yielded data at odds with the initial finding, the Air Force will need to go to Phuket and gather more evidence, he said.
“In this investigation, we have applied the ‘3-M concept’: ‘Man’, which is pilot; ‘Material’ or the plane; and ‘Media’ or communications between the tower and pilot. In this case, our focus is inclined to the ‘Media’ factor,” he said.
Vuttichai Singhamanee, director of the Civil Aviation Department’s Flight Safety Standards Bureau, said that from his checks the MD82 aircraft which served OG029 was in good shape, as the pilot did not report any problems prior the accident. The Indonesian captain also met safety requirements, as he had flown only five hours on the fateful day.
To fly a commercial plane, pilots must be free from alcohol for at least eight hours before takeoff and must not fly more than eight hours per day or 110 hours per month or 1,000 hours per year. Pilots aged over 40 must have a medical check-up twice a year.
K. Vuttichai also noted that on the day of the accident, the Venezuelan pilot who landed Orient Thai’s MD82 plane ahead of OG029 informed the tower of the wind shears. “Normally, if the wind speed is beyond 20 knots, the tower must warn pilots. And in this case, the tower did warn the pilot.”
One-Two-Go crash probe points to wind shear, pilot decision
BANGKOK (Nation): The probe into the crash of One-Two-Go flight OG029 points to wind shear and the pilot’s decision to land despite weather warnings as likely causes, the air crash investigation committee has announced.
“The initial finding, which encompasses the weather conditions at the time of the accident, communications between the tower and the crashed plane’s pilot as well as other witnesses points to a single conclusion,” said Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, permanent secretary of the Transport Ministry and chairman of the committee.
“However, we can’t confirm this until we get the black box decoding result. So far, there has been no contradictory report from the black box,” he told reporters after a meeting of aviation-related organizations.
The evidence showed the pilot and aircraft were in good condition, he said.
Radio communications between the tower and the pilot of an Orient Thai Airlines MD82 plane that landed four minutes before OG029 showed there was wind shear and the pilot had asked controllers to alert the next plane due to land.
The tower duly informed the OG029 pilot of weather and runway conditions, but it could not bar him from landing as that was his decision, he said.
Analysis of the black box should be completed tomorrow and the committee would reconvene and compare the data with its initial finding.
If the two sources did not contradict, the panel would seek the transport minister’s permission to reveal the official cause of the accident to the public, probably early next month.
Otherwise, experts would be appointed for an in-depth analysis and that would take a while.
Attending the meeting were the Civil Aviation Department, Airports of Thailand Plc, Thai Airways International, Aeronautical Radio of Thailand, Civil Aviation Training Center and Thai Pilots’ Association.
Air Vice-Marshall Vinai Plengvithaya, deputy director of air inspection and vice chairman of the committee, noted that in inspecting an air crash wreckage should be maintained in its original condition. However, in the OG029 case, all evidence had not been collected because the debris was removed to help the injured and clear the runway.
If the black box yielded data at odds with the initial finding, the Air Force will need to go to Phuket and gather more evidence, he said.
“In this investigation, we have applied the ‘3-M concept’: ‘Man’, which is pilot; ‘Material’ or the plane; and ‘Media’ or communications between the tower and pilot. In this case, our focus is inclined to the ‘Media’ factor,” he said.
Vuttichai Singhamanee, director of the Civil Aviation Department’s Flight Safety Standards Bureau, said that from his checks the MD82 aircraft which served OG029 was in good shape, as the pilot did not report any problems prior the accident. The Indonesian captain also met safety requirements, as he had flown only five hours on the fateful day.
To fly a commercial plane, pilots must be free from alcohol for at least eight hours before takeoff and must not fly more than eight hours per day or 110 hours per month or 1,000 hours per year. Pilots aged over 40 must have a medical check-up twice a year.
K. Vuttichai also noted that on the day of the accident, the Venezuelan pilot who landed Orient Thai’s MD82 plane ahead of OG029 informed the tower of the wind shears. “Normally, if the wind speed is beyond 20 knots, the tower must warn pilots. And in this case, the tower did warn the pilot.”
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Foreign victim dies, crash toll at 90
A Welsh woman left fighting for her life after surviving the plane crash at Phuket has died, a spokeswoman for the British Foreign Office confirmed.
Bethan Jones, 22, from Wales, died in hospital in Bangkok from burns to 50 per cent of her body, suffered in the One-Two-Go crash at Phuket on Sept 16.
Two days after the crash, she was flown by Royal Thai Air Force military aircraft to a special unit in Bangkok General Hospital, but the effort to save her eventually proved futile. She never regained consciousness.
Her death brought the death toll in the accident to 90. Her body has been flown home, officials said.
The One-Two-Go flight from Bangkok skidded, crashed and burst into flames after trying to land in pouring rain at the resort.
Just three days into a planned six-month, round-the-world trip, Miss Jones and companion Alex Collins, 22, decided to leave Bangkok and head for the Thai resort of Phuket.
A Welsh woman left fighting for her life after surviving the plane crash at Phuket has died, a spokeswoman for the British Foreign Office confirmed.
Bethan Jones, 22, from Wales, died in hospital in Bangkok from burns to 50 per cent of her body, suffered in the One-Two-Go crash at Phuket on Sept 16.
Two days after the crash, she was flown by Royal Thai Air Force military aircraft to a special unit in Bangkok General Hospital, but the effort to save her eventually proved futile. She never regained consciousness.
Her death brought the death toll in the accident to 90. Her body has been flown home, officials said.
The One-Two-Go flight from Bangkok skidded, crashed and burst into flames after trying to land in pouring rain at the resort.
Just three days into a planned six-month, round-the-world trip, Miss Jones and companion Alex Collins, 22, decided to leave Bangkok and head for the Thai resort of Phuket.
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Baccara Bar
Most of the threads about the Phuket crash are not correct. If you think I am racist, you only say that to defend your attitude in aviation. Tell me why a Captain at OX once moved the thrust levers to the stops as they were slowing down to M.80 in cruise as both pilots where asleep and the FE woke him up. The FE pulled them back and said you are overboosting the engines. He pushed them forward to the firewall again saying "we need it, we need it". There is USD 100,000 of Udoms money down the drain. The reason why Asian Aviation has many accidents is because of culture. Three reasons. One quick promotion. Two the Loss of Face thing and three the Hierachal System where a Captain will not listen to a F/O. Have a look at the accident Garuda had in a B737 recently where the skipper was a fruitcake.
I do not give a **** where you are from whether you are white, black, pink or yellow. As long as you see professionalism in attitude and outlook. Tell me why the crash happened in Malaysia where he prayed for 6 seconds believing this was his God's will before killing everybody. We would have the thrust levers forward, the stick back in our stomachs but he decided it was time for him to die. Grow up pilots and see where the real problems lie in this industry with cultures that do not think laterally.
I do not give a **** where you are from whether you are white, black, pink or yellow. As long as you see professionalism in attitude and outlook. Tell me why the crash happened in Malaysia where he prayed for 6 seconds believing this was his God's will before killing everybody. We would have the thrust levers forward, the stick back in our stomachs but he decided it was time for him to die. Grow up pilots and see where the real problems lie in this industry with cultures that do not think laterally.
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not just far east,stop in the middle
so typical so true, a combination of Micro management, and culture, as stated so well by BB.
Until Alah, gets a training quaification, there will still be pilots who ingore the QFH, or other crew members input, believing they are destined to die, or live.
windy
Until Alah, gets a training quaification, there will still be pilots who ingore the QFH, or other crew members input, believing they are destined to die, or live.
windy
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surpise, surprise
"One-Two-Go victim sues Boeing
A Thai air crash victim filed the first lawsuit in the United States against the Boeing Company, the US manufacturer of the aircraft which crashed at Phuket International Airport on September 16 which left 90 people dead. "
Full report: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=122127
Unless I missed something, I believe no cause for this crash has been established yet,....
oscarbravo
A Thai air crash victim filed the first lawsuit in the United States against the Boeing Company, the US manufacturer of the aircraft which crashed at Phuket International Airport on September 16 which left 90 people dead. "
Full report: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_....php?id=122127
Unless I missed something, I believe no cause for this crash has been established yet,....
oscarbravo
Obviously taking lessons from the Americans, sue the deepest pockets. I wonder if his lawyers are good enough to pin it on Boeing who didn't even design the aircraft in the first place.
Imagine if every accident involving an ageing aircraft flown by a dodgy third world operator got blamed on its manufacturer.
This sort of nonsense caused Cessna to stop producing singles for a while, and a considerable portion of their purchase price is product liability insurance.
Wonder if we'll see the same pathetic stampede of ambulance chasing lawyers that was seen after the Bhopal disaster.
Imagine if every accident involving an ageing aircraft flown by a dodgy third world operator got blamed on its manufacturer.
This sort of nonsense caused Cessna to stop producing singles for a while, and a considerable portion of their purchase price is product liability insurance.
Wonder if we'll see the same pathetic stampede of ambulance chasing lawyers that was seen after the Bhopal disaster.
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good move
It is good to know that someone filed a lawsuit against any of the involved parties - they also sue One-Two-Go. Otherwise we will never know about the real cause of the crash. Don't forget, officials here like to cover up unpleasant information. In the case of the OX crash here, we also need to understand that the General Director of the Civil Aviation Department is sitting in the Board of AOT and AeroThai. And to make the matter even worse, he is a close friend of Khun Udom. We can be sure that they will do everything possible to blame others.
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Sueing seals document trail
Boeing now owns M.D. , correct?
One thing about suing deep is it tends to help seal the trail of documents as evidence, an airline executive could be held accountable for missing paperwork in a criminal manner.
Withheld info is also now a criminal act .
One thing about suing deep is it tends to help seal the trail of documents as evidence, an airline executive could be held accountable for missing paperwork in a criminal manner.
Withheld info is also now a criminal act .
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Originally Posted by ChristySweet
One thing about suing deep is it tends to help seal the trail of documents as evidence, an airline executive could be held accountable for missing paperwork in a criminal manner.
I think there is a very good reason, why ICAO Annex 13 is not about issuing blame, but about identification of the causes.
Withheld info is also now a criminal act .
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It is good to know that someone filed a lawsuit against any of the involved parties - they also sue One-Two-Go. Otherwise we will never know about the real cause of the crash.
With court proceedings looming, people will usually shut up about what they know, in order not to incriminate themselves, which is their right if they have been charged or accused.
Trials are always impeding factual and causal investigations, be they criminal or civil.
The manufacturer and the operator of the aircraft, along with airport operators, are the most knowledgeable about procedures and conditions, and court proceedings effectively shut down that source of information. We may now never find out what really happened, and thus be robbed of the chance of learning from this accident to make the future of aviation even safer.
Please see the Joint Resolution by various organisations involved with flight safety for a concise summary of the arguments.
Bernd
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I do not give a **** where you are from whether you are white, black, pink or yellow. As long as you see professionalism in attitude and outlook. Tell me why the crash happened in Malaysia where he prayed for 6 seconds believing this was his God's will before killing everybody.
The Reverend
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EY777, probably too young to know about the following:
4 Dec 1977; 9M-MBD, 737-200 Adv, 20585/306, Del 21/9/72, Malaysian Airline System; near Johore Strait, Malaysia:
The flight was approaching Kuala Lumpur when the pilot radioed that a hijacker had taken control of the aircraft. The aircraft continued to Singapore. While descending from FL210 to FL070 the nose suddenly pitched up. Control was lost and the aircraft crashed into a swamp and disintegrated.
All seven crew members and 93 passengers were killed. Both pilots had been shot.
Should I use your emoticon?
No, I don't think I should.
4 Dec 1977; 9M-MBD, 737-200 Adv, 20585/306, Del 21/9/72, Malaysian Airline System; near Johore Strait, Malaysia:
The flight was approaching Kuala Lumpur when the pilot radioed that a hijacker had taken control of the aircraft. The aircraft continued to Singapore. While descending from FL210 to FL070 the nose suddenly pitched up. Control was lost and the aircraft crashed into a swamp and disintegrated.
All seven crew members and 93 passengers were killed. Both pilots had been shot.
Should I use your
emoticon?No, I don't think I should.
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Hot Dog, am familiar with that accident.But again, some of the posters here are like Journo's with the tagline "Don't let the facts get to a good story" 
I quote Baccara Bar again with the text being in contention :
The prayers recorded on the CVR wasn't from both pilots, who by that time were shot dead prior to the ill fated plunge.So again, I repeat my question, which crash & what relation it had to the Orient Thai crash in Phuket? 
I quote Baccara Bar again with the text being in contention :
Tell me why the crash happened in Malaysia where he prayed for 6 seconds believing this was his God's will before killing everybody.
Last edited by EY777; 29th Sep 2007 at 14:11.
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20 pictures posted on a Thai Google group (pt. 1)
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20 pictures posted on a Thai Google group (pt. 2)
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Face thing and three the Hierachal System where a Captain will not listen to a F/O. Have a look at the accident Garuda had in a B737 recently where the skipper was a fruitcake.
The prayers recorded on the CVR wasn't from both pilots, who by that time were shot dead prior to the ill fated plunge.So again, I repeat my question, which crash & what relation it had to the Orient Thai crash in Phuket?
Attention all left seaters... if you get involved in an accident where it is not a mechanical failure, and you died, someone will brand you a fruitcake.*
Attention all right seaters... if you get involved in an accident where it is not a mechanical failure, and you died, someone will brand you a fruitcake.*
(*)Whether the above statement applies to Asia only or worldwide please inquire Baccara Bar.
PK-KAR