MD80 plane crash in Phuket, Sep. 07
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seeking truth and accountability
If you have (or can acquire) evidence or proof, or if you would be willing to tell me more (publicly or confidentially) to guide me to the truth, I would be very grateful.
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NYT
Thailand only worries about stories that might affect tourism.
The NYT (at last) has a warning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/wo...in&oref=slogin
The NYT (at last) has a warning.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/wo...in&oref=slogin
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The Nation reports on Petition
The Nation in it's weak, gossipy free daily, reports.
(Caution this paper may be called X press because it doesn't check facts...)
http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/03/3...expat_1149.php
Online petition urges Samak to set up 'independent and transparent' probe into culpability of airline and its chief. More than 1,200 people have signed a petition calling for a formal inquiry into allegations pilots at One-Two-Go were paid bribes to fly hours in excess of legal limits and whether such "illegal actions" contributed to the crash of its flight in Phuket last year.
Published on March 31, 2008 Most of the people who have put their names to the online petition are foreigners. The list includes family and friends of the 90 people who died in the crash on September 16.
The petition follows a documentary by an Australian TV team, which was shown Down Under late last year.
The programme aired claims by alleged former airline staff that One-Two-Go and Orient Thai pilots were paid cash bonuses to exceed legal maximum flying hours and that there were improper dealings with aviation authorities.
The claims were (sic) flatlydenied by Udom Tantiprasongchai, the boss of One-Two-Go and Orient Thai airlines, during production of the documentary.
However, many relatives of those killed in the Phuket crash say they are unimpressed by the Thai government's response to the crash and allegations raised in the Australian TV programme.
'Probe unsatisfactory'
"The families of the people killed and injured in the crash in Thailand fear Thai authorities are not properly investigating the crash. Former pilots of the airline publicly allege illegal actions ... contributed to the crash," Bonnie Rind, whose brother Stefan Woronoff died in the crash and who set up the website carrying the petition, said in a recent press statement.
"From everything we're hearing, this wasn't just an accident; this was a crash that didn't have to happen."
Tourists from Australia, France, Germany, Iran, Israel, Sweden, Thailand, Britain and the US, were killed when flight OG 269 crashed.
"The Thai Aviation authorities [the Department of Civil Aviation] claim no cause for the crash has yet been determined. Yet, DCA [deputy] director-general Wuthichai Singhama-nee said: 'No punishment will be imposed... because [it] was beyond control'," Rind said.
The DCA announced on March 10 that an inquiry had found the wind-shear sensor on the One-Two-Go plane would have been working normally before the tragedy.
Wuthichai said the US National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) had examined the plane's wind shear detector and concluded the equipment should have been functioning normally before flight OG 269 tried to land in heavy rain.
The NTSB had not reported on the McDonnell Douglas MD-82's automatic acceleration, plane control or crash alarm, according to a story in the Bangkok Post. Thai authorities said earlier that these parts were too burnt to examine.
The web-based petition asks for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej "to order an independent and transparent investigation into the crash of OG 269". The site is available in English, French, and German, Hebrew, Farsi and Thai.
See: investigateudom.com
By Jim Pollard
(Caution this paper may be called X press because it doesn't check facts...)
http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/03/3...expat_1149.php
Online petition urges Samak to set up 'independent and transparent' probe into culpability of airline and its chief. More than 1,200 people have signed a petition calling for a formal inquiry into allegations pilots at One-Two-Go were paid bribes to fly hours in excess of legal limits and whether such "illegal actions" contributed to the crash of its flight in Phuket last year.
Published on March 31, 2008 Most of the people who have put their names to the online petition are foreigners. The list includes family and friends of the 90 people who died in the crash on September 16.
The petition follows a documentary by an Australian TV team, which was shown Down Under late last year.
The programme aired claims by alleged former airline staff that One-Two-Go and Orient Thai pilots were paid cash bonuses to exceed legal maximum flying hours and that there were improper dealings with aviation authorities.
The claims were (sic) flatlydenied by Udom Tantiprasongchai, the boss of One-Two-Go and Orient Thai airlines, during production of the documentary.
However, many relatives of those killed in the Phuket crash say they are unimpressed by the Thai government's response to the crash and allegations raised in the Australian TV programme.
'Probe unsatisfactory'
"The families of the people killed and injured in the crash in Thailand fear Thai authorities are not properly investigating the crash. Former pilots of the airline publicly allege illegal actions ... contributed to the crash," Bonnie Rind, whose brother Stefan Woronoff died in the crash and who set up the website carrying the petition, said in a recent press statement.
"From everything we're hearing, this wasn't just an accident; this was a crash that didn't have to happen."
Tourists from Australia, France, Germany, Iran, Israel, Sweden, Thailand, Britain and the US, were killed when flight OG 269 crashed.
"The Thai Aviation authorities [the Department of Civil Aviation] claim no cause for the crash has yet been determined. Yet, DCA [deputy] director-general Wuthichai Singhama-nee said: 'No punishment will be imposed... because [it] was beyond control'," Rind said.
The DCA announced on March 10 that an inquiry had found the wind-shear sensor on the One-Two-Go plane would have been working normally before the tragedy.
Wuthichai said the US National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) had examined the plane's wind shear detector and concluded the equipment should have been functioning normally before flight OG 269 tried to land in heavy rain.
The NTSB had not reported on the McDonnell Douglas MD-82's automatic acceleration, plane control or crash alarm, according to a story in the Bangkok Post. Thai authorities said earlier that these parts were too burnt to examine.
The web-based petition asks for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej "to order an independent and transparent investigation into the crash of OG 269". The site is available in English, French, and German, Hebrew, Farsi and Thai.
See: investigateudom.com
By Jim Pollard
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We have over 1400 signatures on our petition including a number of signatures from former Orient Thai pilots. Thank you very much pilots!
Last week, we officially submitted our petition to PM Samak Sundaravej. See it here in Thai, and here in English.
If you haven't yet signed, please do. Use your keyboard to make a change. www.InvestigateUdom.com
I want to share my favorite non-family, non-pilot post:
"I just crossed Thailand off my list of possible vacation spots for my family's summer vacation.
Call it knee-jerk American myopia if you want (I know little about the facts surrounding the incident in question), but I will continue to write off Thailand until such a time as I hear that the Thai airline industry is cleaned up.
And, whether fair or not, I will probably tell others of my decision.
So why should you care? Well, consider all the signatures above mine. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, commercial life has changed dramatically in the past 15 years. Your PR disaster is now a global one. You are living in a hyperaware, superconnected world. And that world is watching. But it won't watch forever. Eventually, if no new news emerges, the global community will form a consensus about Thailand and brand it as dangerous.
judging by the number of signatures, you really don't have very much time."
Last week, we officially submitted our petition to PM Samak Sundaravej. See it here in Thai, and here in English.
If you haven't yet signed, please do. Use your keyboard to make a change. www.InvestigateUdom.com
I want to share my favorite non-family, non-pilot post:
"I just crossed Thailand off my list of possible vacation spots for my family's summer vacation.
Call it knee-jerk American myopia if you want (I know little about the facts surrounding the incident in question), but I will continue to write off Thailand until such a time as I hear that the Thai airline industry is cleaned up.
And, whether fair or not, I will probably tell others of my decision.
So why should you care? Well, consider all the signatures above mine. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, commercial life has changed dramatically in the past 15 years. Your PR disaster is now a global one. You are living in a hyperaware, superconnected world. And that world is watching. But it won't watch forever. Eventually, if no new news emerges, the global community will form a consensus about Thailand and brand it as dangerous.
judging by the number of signatures, you really don't have very much time."
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Petition Update, looking for infomration
We're just shy of 2,000 signatures, world-wide, with a heavy concentration of signatures from the US, France, the UK and Ireland. Additionally, the InvestigateUdom page has been read over 5,500 times.
Sadly, I seem to have frightened off ex-12go .... I'd appreciate the opportunity to verify some information regarding OX operations and the crash specifically.
Sadly, I seem to have frightened off ex-12go .... I'd appreciate the opportunity to verify some information regarding OX operations and the crash specifically.
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Petition Update
2,857 signatures. That's 1000 new signatures in a week!
The signatures are from 50 different countries, led by Ireland, then the UK and then the US.
Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has not yet responded.
Stay tuned....
The signatures are from 50 different countries, led by Ireland, then the UK and then the US.
Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has not yet responded.
Stay tuned....
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For what it's worth...
The latest, if you are a foreign license holder and wish to exercise your skills and privileges in Thailand, is that before being issued with the Thai License, you must now sit the Thai Aviation Law exam and also answer some questions on 'Human Performance'.
I have no doubt that this new requirement is, in some, way related to the fact that the Commander of the ill-fated One-2-Go flight was not a Thai.
The Thai CAA already uses the JAR verification system that (for a fee) we expatriate pilots set up for them with our various licensing authorities. It seems that now this is not enough.
Pretty insulting really, particularly for those of us who hold JAR licenses and who undergo a bi-annual 'revalidation' check by a JAR accredited instructor (which we can't do in Thailand!) and which includes revision of Air Law and Human Performance.
I went back to the UK to get my CAA/JAR PPL revalidated last November. Now I'm back in Thailand and instead of the 'same day service' I'm used to when getting my Thai license renewed, I have been waiting for more than 6 weeks and with no clear indication as to whether I shall ever be granted a Thai license again.
The real stupidity is that, without a Thai license, I can't fly at all even with an instructor in the right hand seat.
Gee, thanks Udom!!
When will rich and (in their minds only) influential Thai's finally learn that pushing the boundaries for their own selfish ends just screws it all up for everyone? Strange that it never seems to screw it up for them though.
I have no doubt that this new requirement is, in some, way related to the fact that the Commander of the ill-fated One-2-Go flight was not a Thai.
The Thai CAA already uses the JAR verification system that (for a fee) we expatriate pilots set up for them with our various licensing authorities. It seems that now this is not enough.
Pretty insulting really, particularly for those of us who hold JAR licenses and who undergo a bi-annual 'revalidation' check by a JAR accredited instructor (which we can't do in Thailand!) and which includes revision of Air Law and Human Performance.
I went back to the UK to get my CAA/JAR PPL revalidated last November. Now I'm back in Thailand and instead of the 'same day service' I'm used to when getting my Thai license renewed, I have been waiting for more than 6 weeks and with no clear indication as to whether I shall ever be granted a Thai license again.
The real stupidity is that, without a Thai license, I can't fly at all even with an instructor in the right hand seat.
Gee, thanks Udom!!
When will rich and (in their minds only) influential Thai's finally learn that pushing the boundaries for their own selfish ends just screws it all up for everyone? Strange that it never seems to screw it up for them though.
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FLIGHT SAFETY.....a JOKE.
I have been observing the debate over OX for some time.I was a PAX on the same airplane earlier that day.I worked for OX as a Captain for ........years.My position was ............Without exception, all the accusations that have been levelled at OX on pprune are 100% correct.I have personally been offered a bribe to work illegally by Namfon on many many occasions.I dont see this as the problem some see it as.The real issue is the lack of maintenance and the lies told to pilots about aircraft status.Also the poor training that goes on, fostered by the then Thai DFO, and the gross incompetence of SOME of their Captains, including the Captain of OX269.This was all well documented.If I was working in my own country I would go to the DCA with my concerns, but as a foriegner in Thailand, I would likely get fired, or worse...................
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Doomed to failure?
Unfortunatly any petition to Samak is most probably a waste of time as as previously stated,Udom is well-connected,especially within the heirarchy of the ruling PPP/TRT party.
I was at DMK the other week and the One to Go ticket counters were much quieter than the Nok counters,so Udom must be being hit in the pocket over this crash.
An altitude bust by One to Go made the Bangkok Post in December,so the reputation of this outfit must remain low with the Thai flying public.
From an inside source here,there is talk of Orient Thai announcing the commencement of scheduled services to Munich in the near future.
It will be interesting to see the reaction of the European airworthiness authorities to these proposals.
I was at DMK the other week and the One to Go ticket counters were much quieter than the Nok counters,so Udom must be being hit in the pocket over this crash.
An altitude bust by One to Go made the Bangkok Post in December,so the reputation of this outfit must remain low with the Thai flying public.
From an inside source here,there is talk of Orient Thai announcing the commencement of scheduled services to Munich in the near future.
It will be interesting to see the reaction of the European airworthiness authorities to these proposals.
Last edited by Thaihawk; 28th Apr 2008 at 15:49. Reason: Correct typo
N4790P
From an inside source here,there is talk of Orient Thai announcing the commencement of scheduled services to Munich in the near future.
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Originally Posted by Thaihawk
I was at DMK the other week and the One to Go ticket counters were much quieter than the Nok counters,so Udom must be being hit in the pocket over this crash.
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Not wanting to hijack the thread as I think its a good one and hope Udum gets whats coming to him.
Xeque: is this just an isolated problem you are experiencing with the renewal of your Thai validation or is it affecting everyone and all licenses FAA etc?
Xeque: is this just an isolated problem you are experiencing with the renewal of your Thai validation or is it affecting everyone and all licenses FAA etc?
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Not wanting to hijack the thread as I think its a good one and hope Udum gets whats coming to him.
Xeque: is this just an isolated problem you are experiencing with the renewal of your Thai validation or is it affecting everyone and all licenses FAA etc?
Xeque: is this just an isolated problem you are experiencing with the renewal of your Thai validation or is it affecting everyone and all licenses FAA etc?
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Earl
As far as I am aware it affects all foreign PPL holders. There is some information on the Thai Flying Club website. http://thaiflyingclub.com/
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Thailand may not see many Irish visitors in the coming years. We're just shy of 4,100 signatures. www.InvestigateUdom.com
Other work continues and begins to bear fruit.
Thank you for your support.
Other work continues and begins to bear fruit.
Thank you for your support.
Last edited by InvestigateUdom; 27th Apr 2008 at 14:40.
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Altitude bust?
Whats an " Altitude Bust" ?
Investigate Udom-
Do you have a copy of the US NTSB report on the black box?
Can you post it??
YOU said it right... T Land is a horrible place- you must get your petition and grievances in front of International news.
Sorry not pertaining to prop pilots concerns but allow this on the thread please...
The officials here do not give a damn about a bunch of meddling "farangs"- a boycott of Thailand, tourism mainly but products too is the only way .
For instance
Stop buying Thai rice as it is so high, profits are outrageous so it it really would get attention.
Investigate Udom-
Do you have a copy of the US NTSB report on the black box?
Can you post it??
YOU said it right... T Land is a horrible place- you must get your petition and grievances in front of International news.
Sorry not pertaining to prop pilots concerns but allow this on the thread please...
The officials here do not give a damn about a bunch of meddling "farangs"- a boycott of Thailand, tourism mainly but products too is the only way .
For instance
Stop buying Thai rice as it is so high, profits are outrageous so it it really would get attention.