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Old 19th Mar 2008, 12:10   #321 (permalink)
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Thanks for the clarification. Not an expression I'd heard before.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 14:24   #322 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rshbkk
No problems at the moment in accessing the site - and incidentally, beware using proxies (or at least admitting to using to using them), because I believe that is now illegal thanks to our freedom-loving non-colonised (apartfromtheJapanesewhomwedon'tmention) masters.

Yes, access was OK the next day and is OK now. I guess one of the non-redundant links from Thailand to the UK was down and Tor enabled me to get around it. I did try many times to get through without Tor and alternated between using Tor and not using it, and I could get through only by using Tor.

Having said that, there was another site in the UK that I couldn't access yesterday and had to use Tor. It's a pretty poor ISP service that doesn't switch to alternate routes when one link goes down. You'd have thought it was automatic. TiT.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 15:43   #323 (permalink)
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In a previous news article posted a few days ago by Sticky b it stated the Thai DCA would be attending sim checks.
This has been already going on with the old Thaisky, Skyeyes and recently last year with Phuket Air.
The Thai DCA even signs the check ride form.
Don't see anything new with this one.
Does the Thai DCA attend Orient Thai and one to go sim checks?
By the way Phuket Air has mostly western pilots now, a good part of them from major airlines.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 16:04   #324 (permalink)

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By the way Phuket Air has mostly western pilots now, a good part of them from major airlines.
Earl, I'm not being PC - but that means nothing. Properly trained pilots supported (ie 'no' commercial pressure) by a properly run airline would do me.
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Old 19th Mar 2008, 16:25   #325 (permalink)
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Was just referring to the news article in which it led you to believe that mostly Asian cockpit crew.

They forgot to mention the majority from the west and a few from Australia.
But the news never gets it correct anyway.
Maybe a problem from the source.
Yes I do agree pressure from management is a really controlling factor, it seems some charters have adopted this way of life and it is getting worse by the day.
It seems that if you complain too much about operating against the regs there is always some low timer ready to step in and take your place.
Seen this happen too many times.

Last edited by Earl; 21st Mar 2008 at 00:29. Reason: Spelling
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Old 20th Mar 2008, 09:46   #326 (permalink)
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Bait and Switch - you mean "CARROT AND STICK"?

Not to digress, I havent heard the Bait and Switch thing for long time. . and then it dawned - you mean "CARROT AND STICK" for us ?
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Old 20th Mar 2008, 13:18   #327 (permalink)
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Not sure. A bait and switch (the switch means swap, not a stick), is a fraud. My understanding is that 'stick and carrot' refers to rewarding good behavior (with the carrot) and punishing bad behavior (with the stick).

I'll try to avoid colloquialisms in the future!

Btw, my belief that One-Two-Go was selling fraudulent goods in no way exempts Udom Tantiprasongchai and the DCA from their alleged illegal actions. They need to be held personally accountable for their actions.

Check out the signatures at: www.InvestigateUdom.com and click on Timeline. Please let me know if there is anything important or useful I am missing. And sign, if you haven't yet signed.
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Old 20th Mar 2008, 23:30   #328 (permalink)
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Forgive me if this has been asked before, Im new to this industry just have been flying cessnas and pipers. In a few previous posts it says that the pilot may not have seleced the go-round sequence and tried to go around but shouldnt the computers on board the aircraft relise what is happening and disengage the landing sequence. Similar to a car with cruise control as soon as you hit the accelerator or brake it disengages and you have complete manual control.
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Old 23rd Mar 2008, 13:44   #329 (permalink)
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Thai fatalists

Please let me say this about the Thai attitude toward safety, life, death and solutions to safety issues.

There's a saying, "Mai Pen Rai " which loosely translates into, "I don't need to give a damn because nothing really matters..."
The culture is fatalistic and you better take that into consideration if you come here, or fly for a cheesy Thai airline.
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Old 23rd Mar 2008, 14:00   #330 (permalink)
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I thought it very kind of you to honour (murdered Swedish tourist) Hanna Backlund with the memorial service this week in Phuket at Hat Mai Khao.

Having lived in Thailand for 11 years on and off, I have cautioned all females that the country is particularly unsafe for them to "Backpack", even traveling as a pair. Hanna's death and the subsequent hand washing by all concerned bears this out.
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Old 24th Mar 2008, 05:29   #331 (permalink)
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Thanks Bought my Points, someone had to do it for Hanna.
We know how dangerous it is but tourists are really duped..

Please e mail me privately if you'd like to have a conversation , I'm afraid the moderator discourages such off topic posts.
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Old 24th Mar 2008, 10:13   #332 (permalink)
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Baccara Bar


Yes the Thai DCA examiners do go for sim checks at Orient Thai but Udom pays them four times the per diems in cash that he pays his flight crew on overnights. One thinks the Thai DCA should be paying that.

A lot of them fall asleep at the back of the simulator and watch nothing. Once a Captain called nothing like "Confirm Engine Fire" but says "get the book out, open the book" and listens to nothing at what the F/E reads out. Once a F/O shot 6 one engine inop approaches and never got near the runway but the examiners just accept all this. Someone please go and look closely at where the standards lie down there.
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Old 24th Mar 2008, 13:51   #333 (permalink)
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"Fatalistic Attitude"

I have been wondering a bit about that in the last few days. We spent a few days at Kanchanaburi, a little town known mainly, to Westerners, as the site of the Bridge over the River Kwai.

According to the local museums, which are a little rough and ready, 67,000 Western prisoners were held near here by the Japanese and used to build the railway and approximately 13,700 of them died. That is bad enough. What set me back on my heels though was a small addendum in one of the museum exhibits that mentioned that as many as 270,000 Asians were also used as slave labour on the railway and the nearest estimate anyone can find is that only some 30,000 were eventually repatriated. That is the single and only mention I can find of all those prisoners and I have been wondering just who they were and why, when so many were lost, it is the Westerner's contingent that are so memorialised.

Perhaps we are more meticulous about records, perhaps we are more easily offended about the treatment of our fellow countrymen, perhaps in the years after the war the spread of stories and news was better in our Western societies but I suspect that Eastern fatalism is also a very significant factor. "They are gone, what can you do? We'll just move on with life."

And that may have quite a bit to do with Thais attitude to accident investigation and reporting. We are now enjoying Koh Samui. So mny things are really enjoyable here, including the good humour of the locals. It is an easy country to like.

We came by overnight train (Much better than the ones we had in Europe, if showing their age just a little.) We're going ack to Bangkok by air. . . . . . I'll let you know . . . . . . . .
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Old 24th Mar 2008, 14:30   #334 (permalink)
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Anyone who believes in the inevitability of untimely death for others has NO business running an airline or piloting a commercial airplane.

Those of you who know Udom: Would you describe him as a fatalist?
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 03:46   #335 (permalink)
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If you count the number of Thais that have signed the petition, that gives a hint about the thai attitude to this kind of things. At this moment there is a single thai name on that petition, and the comment posted by that person indicates that she lost someone close to her in the crash.
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 03:59   #336 (permalink)
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Gee, I note you joined this forum today, and have made only this single post.

Would you care to reveal if you have any connection to the management of Orient Thai/One-Two-Go?
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 04:08   #337 (permalink)
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Danger Connected

If Udom is "connected" & I can only presume he is, nothing will happen to him.
Look at his track record & Thailand is so corrupt & Taxin is back in town pulling the strings attached to the PPP.

Good luck, I admire what you are trying to do.
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 05:35   #338 (permalink)
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kristofera only gave a factual response, whether you like it or not. You were a little harsh on him/her.

(BTW - My family were banned from travelling on this excuse for an airline well before this accident.)

Last edited by ZFT; 27th Mar 2008 at 09:44. Reason: just noticed a spelling error
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 09:20   #339 (permalink)
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Yes, I signed up as a member today, but I have been reading this thread for a long time. I have no connection whatsoever to Udom, his company, or his buddies.

I think you are doing a good thing and in no way do I want to discourage you. However I wanted to point out that directing/addressing the campaign at Thai authorities will have no effect whatsoever. Getting attention to the matter in western media is far more likely to have any effect. Taking tourist dollars away is the only thing that the thai government (or any Thai) would notice...

Meanwhile I will look forward to seeing more Thai names on the list... ...oh, one more just signed today.

The newly added links to crash related info on your website are good, please add one to this PPRuNe thread too. There are some very interesting posts from current and former pilots at OG/OX earlier on, and there are also some older PPRuNe threads related to OG/OX.

Last edited by kristofera; 27th Mar 2008 at 11:30.
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Old 27th Mar 2008, 10:54   #340 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Andrew Drummond

You folks need Andrew Drummond in your corner.

He's the only journo most expats trust in Thailand.

See http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/...t-feb-17-2008/ for an example of his work.
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