FlyBE - 5
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oxford
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Well Anne
The next time you check in why don't you state your preference! - you might even get what you ask for.
Just for your info - the company uses standard weights for either male, female or an all average adult weight. These figures are entered into a computer which then generates an electronic load sheet. (We have the ability to do manual hand written load sheets which are used at some stations). The seating available is controlled by the computer in order to keep the aircraft in within its trim boundaries.The Q400 seating is divided up into 4 different bays and movement from one bay to another changes the trim. Moving from the back to the front or vice versa would have the greatest trim changing effect.
We are professionals - we don't just make it up as we go along.
Trust this explains why we do what we do - although it will never expain an individuals demeanour - for which there is no excuse. We rely on your custom to pay our wages, thank you.
The next time you check in why don't you state your preference! - you might even get what you ask for.
Just for your info - the company uses standard weights for either male, female or an all average adult weight. These figures are entered into a computer which then generates an electronic load sheet. (We have the ability to do manual hand written load sheets which are used at some stations). The seating available is controlled by the computer in order to keep the aircraft in within its trim boundaries.The Q400 seating is divided up into 4 different bays and movement from one bay to another changes the trim. Moving from the back to the front or vice versa would have the greatest trim changing effect.
We are professionals - we don't just make it up as we go along.
Trust this explains why we do what we do - although it will never expain an individuals demeanour - for which there is no excuse. We rely on your custom to pay our wages, thank you.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester
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I would question the term 'professional' - they certainly weren't that yesrterday when the 0700 MAN-SOU finally took off at 0928, with absolutely no explanation.
Or maybe the professionalism was deminstrated in the free cup of coffee I got for a £170 return ticket?
Or maybe the professionalism was deminstrated in the free cup of coffee I got for a £170 return ticket?
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
absolutely no explanation
If you have any questions you can always ask the cabin crew or the airport handling agents; the vast majority will be only too happy to help.
sr
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MANCHESTER
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hmm that is strange as the handling agent did do announcements airside from the information desk informing passengers of the reason as estimated departure times, unfort the airport screens dont carry such information ( as why) only an estimated depature time.
I also i believe the crew onboard apologised and gave an explantion to all passengers on board......
I also i believe the crew onboard apologised and gave an explantion to all passengers on board......
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manchester
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Allow me to avail you of the facts regarding yesterdays Southampton fiasco.
0645 Called to gate
0700 Advised tech problem. next announcement 0715
0715 Advised tech problem - next announcement 0730
0730 No announcement
0745 No announcement
0800 No announcement
0805 Approach customer services desk. Am advised that a part for the flight-deck is being flown in from Belfast. Ask to transfer onto the 0830, sorry the last seats have just been taken. Ask what estimated departure of the 0700 will be. In the agents professional opinion (her words) if a part is being flown in it will not be before 1000 and probably more like 1100. Offload me please!
She offloads me and I wait for her to deal with other offloaded passengers so we can be escorted landside.
0810 ring ring - Oh what a surprise the aircraft is ready for departure. Check me in please! (I dont ask about the supposedly faulty part on the flight deck but decide to keep fingers crossed and one hand on the life jacket instead).
She checks me in.
0825 We board
0845 Announcement from captain, we are waiting for a tug. Just a few minutes.
0850 Four more passengers board, god knows where they came from.
0910 Still waiting for that pesky tug, and theres a queue now.. damn!
0930 Up up and away.
Yes there was an apology. However there was no explanation of why the delay had ocurred in the first place. The parting shot was "I hope the delay hasnt inconvenienced you". Of course it has you dimwits.
Once again Flybe treat their customers with total contempt. The whole operation disgusts me and if it werent for the fact that theyre the cheapest of a very expensive bunch on certain routes and I am forced by my employer to use them, I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.
0645 Called to gate
0700 Advised tech problem. next announcement 0715
0715 Advised tech problem - next announcement 0730
0730 No announcement
0745 No announcement
0800 No announcement
0805 Approach customer services desk. Am advised that a part for the flight-deck is being flown in from Belfast. Ask to transfer onto the 0830, sorry the last seats have just been taken. Ask what estimated departure of the 0700 will be. In the agents professional opinion (her words) if a part is being flown in it will not be before 1000 and probably more like 1100. Offload me please!
She offloads me and I wait for her to deal with other offloaded passengers so we can be escorted landside.
0810 ring ring - Oh what a surprise the aircraft is ready for departure. Check me in please! (I dont ask about the supposedly faulty part on the flight deck but decide to keep fingers crossed and one hand on the life jacket instead).
She checks me in.
0825 We board
0845 Announcement from captain, we are waiting for a tug. Just a few minutes.
0850 Four more passengers board, god knows where they came from.
0910 Still waiting for that pesky tug, and theres a queue now.. damn!
0930 Up up and away.
Yes there was an apology. However there was no explanation of why the delay had ocurred in the first place. The parting shot was "I hope the delay hasnt inconvenienced you". Of course it has you dimwits.
Once again Flybe treat their customers with total contempt. The whole operation disgusts me and if it werent for the fact that theyre the cheapest of a very expensive bunch on certain routes and I am forced by my employer to use them, I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole.
Join Date: May 2002
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Anne your obviously one of "Those" pax the cabin crew talk about!
I understand the frustrations of your explained situation! But remember most of the crew you are dealing with on the flight in question have been up since 0430 and want nothing more than to get home early themselves! There day has been extended and trust me dont receive any overtime for the pleasure! Im not by any means saying you are in anyway like this, but the attitudes of some pax is vile, some very rude and abusive. The crew are stuck in the same situation as the pax and dont apreciate abuse as im sure non of us do! At the end of the day the crew always! wants to get away on time at the latest! But sometimes that doesnt happen for whatever reason, sometimes life just isnt fair!
I always think to myself I wonder if these people who throw there toys out of the pram for being an hour late do the same when they have a doctors appointment and have to wait an hour??? Or even the train
Rant over!
O for the record Flybe do refund the premium paid for allocated seating, just visit the ticket desk on arrival.
I understand the frustrations of your explained situation! But remember most of the crew you are dealing with on the flight in question have been up since 0430 and want nothing more than to get home early themselves! There day has been extended and trust me dont receive any overtime for the pleasure! Im not by any means saying you are in anyway like this, but the attitudes of some pax is vile, some very rude and abusive. The crew are stuck in the same situation as the pax and dont apreciate abuse as im sure non of us do! At the end of the day the crew always! wants to get away on time at the latest! But sometimes that doesnt happen for whatever reason, sometimes life just isnt fair!
I always think to myself I wonder if these people who throw there toys out of the pram for being an hour late do the same when they have a doctors appointment and have to wait an hour??? Or even the train
Rant over!
O for the record Flybe do refund the premium paid for allocated seating, just visit the ticket desk on arrival.
Redwings, your post sums up everything which is wrong with customer service in this country.
No ground staff or crew should ever resort to the lowest possible denominator of going for the "sympathy vote" with their passengers by saying that it's OK you're delayed because we're in the same boat and have been up since 4am too. It is gross unprofessionalism. When a customer has paid for any service to be delivered, they have a reasonable right to a) receive that service; b) have an honest explanation if the service falls short of their reasonable expectations and c) expect the company's employees to do everything they can to fix the problem.
If there are issues behind the scenes which need to be fixed, then you resolve the problem "front of house" as best you can whilst being absolutely professional, and then go "back of house" and work with the rest of your team to try to ensure that it either can't happen again, or that you work on what's gone wrong in your handling of the situation to try to maintain your customers' confidence if the same situation ever arises again.
To turn round and say that a customer is being difficult and that they ought to understand the crew's position during a delay is simply appalling. I fully understand that airlines often place their employees in extremely awkward situations and I have spent enough hours in terminals with delayed passengers to know enough about dealing with the problems. However, I have never ever resorted to saying "well you should feel sorry for me too" or belittling the customers' issues by such comments.
Abuse from customers should not be tolerated. If you are handling the situation well, the majority of other customers will think far more of your company if you stand up to aggression or rudeness from one or two individuals. Professional handling of this will enhance their perception of the airline, turning a negative situation into a positive.
However, as paying customers then you should at least respect that you've promised something that your employer is not delivering. If you're the person on the spot, you should be doing your damndest to resolve the problem or at least do your best to assist them. Why should they not be entitled to expect flights to depart on time?
No ground staff or crew should ever resort to the lowest possible denominator of going for the "sympathy vote" with their passengers by saying that it's OK you're delayed because we're in the same boat and have been up since 4am too. It is gross unprofessionalism. When a customer has paid for any service to be delivered, they have a reasonable right to a) receive that service; b) have an honest explanation if the service falls short of their reasonable expectations and c) expect the company's employees to do everything they can to fix the problem.
If there are issues behind the scenes which need to be fixed, then you resolve the problem "front of house" as best you can whilst being absolutely professional, and then go "back of house" and work with the rest of your team to try to ensure that it either can't happen again, or that you work on what's gone wrong in your handling of the situation to try to maintain your customers' confidence if the same situation ever arises again.
To turn round and say that a customer is being difficult and that they ought to understand the crew's position during a delay is simply appalling. I fully understand that airlines often place their employees in extremely awkward situations and I have spent enough hours in terminals with delayed passengers to know enough about dealing with the problems. However, I have never ever resorted to saying "well you should feel sorry for me too" or belittling the customers' issues by such comments.
Abuse from customers should not be tolerated. If you are handling the situation well, the majority of other customers will think far more of your company if you stand up to aggression or rudeness from one or two individuals. Professional handling of this will enhance their perception of the airline, turning a negative situation into a positive.
However, as paying customers then you should at least respect that you've promised something that your employer is not delivering. If you're the person on the spot, you should be doing your damndest to resolve the problem or at least do your best to assist them. Why should they not be entitled to expect flights to depart on time?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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flightrider - could not agree more with regards to how a delay should be handled. Whilst I appreciate the crew's position, it is at the end of the day what they are paid for and therefore I would not expect the passenger to be asked to see it from their point of view.
I do question Anne Insider's remarks however because the first two announcements seem to clearly state the flight is delayed due to technical problems. Without sounding rude, I am not entirely sure what else the passenger should be advised because to go into details would confuse airline staff (non-engineers) let alone passenger
Anne Insider - I am very sorry to learn of the delays experienced and whilst you do not know me personally, I can assure you that Flybe would apologise for any incovnenience caused. However I am confident that despite appearances staff and representatives would have done all possible to ensure people reached their destination as soon as possible. One thing that does stand out is that Flybe waited for missing passengers which whilst I appreciate would be irritating if you are sat waiting, I am sure you would feel even more dissatisfied if you were that passenger and flybe refused you boarding. Nevertheless I understand where you are coming from.
I dont think all your comments are neccesary - joking asside (I would hope) our staff are not dimwits and are fully capable of performing their duties. Disruption is a pain and many of us have experienced it ourselves as passengers but it is a case of cooperation and patience - a delay would not be caused without good reason.
I really hope that you will use flybe again and trust that your next flight will be less stressful.
I do question Anne Insider's remarks however because the first two announcements seem to clearly state the flight is delayed due to technical problems. Without sounding rude, I am not entirely sure what else the passenger should be advised because to go into details would confuse airline staff (non-engineers) let alone passenger
Anne Insider - I am very sorry to learn of the delays experienced and whilst you do not know me personally, I can assure you that Flybe would apologise for any incovnenience caused. However I am confident that despite appearances staff and representatives would have done all possible to ensure people reached their destination as soon as possible. One thing that does stand out is that Flybe waited for missing passengers which whilst I appreciate would be irritating if you are sat waiting, I am sure you would feel even more dissatisfied if you were that passenger and flybe refused you boarding. Nevertheless I understand where you are coming from.
I dont think all your comments are neccesary - joking asside (I would hope) our staff are not dimwits and are fully capable of performing their duties. Disruption is a pain and many of us have experienced it ourselves as passengers but it is a case of cooperation and patience - a delay would not be caused without good reason.
I really hope that you will use flybe again and trust that your next flight will be less stressful.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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To clear up the delay to the MAN-SOU, A/c had a Flight deck Electrical problem, which the engineers kept trying to fix by turning the a/c on and off.
If i remember rightly the a/c in questions is CL, after much head stracting the decision was made to take the a/c VFR MAN-SOU-MAN then into MAINT. Just to get the pax there and back, otherwise it would have been Cancelled.
As for being moved to the later flight it still departed after the 7360, also the 7362 was already fully booked.
Tech problems happen, and sometimes (especially electronic ones) they are not a quick or easy fix. Keeping pax informed every 10 mins isn't easy maily because the engineers dont know if the a/c can be fix or not.
The handling agent also has 10 other Flybe flights to worrie about.
If i remember rightly the a/c in questions is CL, after much head stracting the decision was made to take the a/c VFR MAN-SOU-MAN then into MAINT. Just to get the pax there and back, otherwise it would have been Cancelled.
As for being moved to the later flight it still departed after the 7360, also the 7362 was already fully booked.
Tech problems happen, and sometimes (especially electronic ones) they are not a quick or easy fix. Keeping pax informed every 10 mins isn't easy maily because the engineers dont know if the a/c can be fix or not.
The handling agent also has 10 other Flybe flights to worrie about.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Keeping pax informed every 10 mins isn't easy
The handling agent also has 10 other Flybe flights to worrie about
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Techproblem
I agree - and heres why
Simple really. Apart from the reasons you already state (quite correct), the airport authority dont like calls going out every 5-10 mins or so. Its annoying and not realistic. With all the other calls, and activity in the departure lounge, theres nothing more frustrating than listening to call after call after call, and in honesty, passengers either 'switch off' and ignore the important call - last call...., or simply pester the staff who are attending other flights and cant assist. Been as honest as possible in the first call - dont state the problem, but advise operational reasons. Inform the passengers that the next information will be in... (Calls at 15-30min intervals are more acceptable and gives EVERYONE a chance to get on with their respective jobs). No news is good news up to a point.
Been there, done it and got the badge. It happens to ALL airlines and ground staff and will always happen. Aircraft are machines, and machines DO breakdown
PS - Some more than others... (Who mentioned the 146 / Avro)
I agree - and heres why
Simple really. Apart from the reasons you already state (quite correct), the airport authority dont like calls going out every 5-10 mins or so. Its annoying and not realistic. With all the other calls, and activity in the departure lounge, theres nothing more frustrating than listening to call after call after call, and in honesty, passengers either 'switch off' and ignore the important call - last call...., or simply pester the staff who are attending other flights and cant assist. Been as honest as possible in the first call - dont state the problem, but advise operational reasons. Inform the passengers that the next information will be in... (Calls at 15-30min intervals are more acceptable and gives EVERYONE a chance to get on with their respective jobs). No news is good news up to a point.
Been there, done it and got the badge. It happens to ALL airlines and ground staff and will always happen. Aircraft are machines, and machines DO breakdown
PS - Some more than others... (Who mentioned the 146 / Avro)
Join Date: Mar 2007
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As silverstreak states, Manchester Airport is actually classed as a 'quiet airport', therefore information calls every 10/15 mins are not permitted to be be made. This can obvously be a right pain in ar** in certain circumstances. Saying that, when a aircraft is tech and the airline is mabye looking at using another aircraft to operate the route this takes a while to work out, so sometimes the handling agent simply does not have the info to deliver at that time, cant exactly do a call saying 'we have no info to give you'.
This is a nusiance and total inconveniance for the passengers, but nobody involved wants the delay, the airline, handling agent, or passengers, but planes do brake, the same as cars, and they will figure out the quickest way to get the flight back on track, in some cases there may not be a alternative and the flight is cancelled.
Handling agent staff dont want 30 plus passengers stood in front off them complaining or shouting about the delay, they just want to get on with their job, if they had the required info, this would be issued, but this is not always what the passenger wants to hear.
There is no simple answer as every delay is differant and info can change very quickly, (another aircraft may go tech for example), this is not the passengers fault nor may be even their concern, but this can make the airline have to make changes yet again.
I would think (correct me if i am wrong), that sometimes it is better to wait,instead of announcements every 15 min saying a differant story from the last one.
This is a nusiance and total inconveniance for the passengers, but nobody involved wants the delay, the airline, handling agent, or passengers, but planes do brake, the same as cars, and they will figure out the quickest way to get the flight back on track, in some cases there may not be a alternative and the flight is cancelled.
Handling agent staff dont want 30 plus passengers stood in front off them complaining or shouting about the delay, they just want to get on with their job, if they had the required info, this would be issued, but this is not always what the passenger wants to hear.
There is no simple answer as every delay is differant and info can change very quickly, (another aircraft may go tech for example), this is not the passengers fault nor may be even their concern, but this can make the airline have to make changes yet again.
I would think (correct me if i am wrong), that sometimes it is better to wait,instead of announcements every 15 min saying a differant story from the last one.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
.....the decision was made to take the a/c VFR MAN-SOU-MAN then into MAINT. Just to get the pax there and back, otherwise it would have been Cancelled.
A4
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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VFR. Yeah, right.
I think there has been some fundamental misunderstanding of what VFR entails. For one, there are no VFR charts on any Flybe a/c, and I have met very few pilots daft enough to consider driving a high performance large turboprop through some of the UKs busiest airspace on the most basic level of ATC service.
I think there has been some fundamental misunderstanding of what VFR entails. For one, there are no VFR charts on any Flybe a/c, and I have met very few pilots daft enough to consider driving a high performance large turboprop through some of the UKs busiest airspace on the most basic level of ATC service.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Maybe the whole industry should work out a better way of communicating with its customers.
I remember BMI at LHR T1 applied different colours to each line of their flight display monitors. Flights shown in green were running to time; flights running late were shown in amber; flights where information was being updated such as tech delays or whatever appeared in blue and cancellations appeared in red.
Alongside the flight display a second display cycled through each amber/blue/red coloured flight providing additional and constantly updated information.
Simple but effective.
I remember BMI at LHR T1 applied different colours to each line of their flight display monitors. Flights shown in green were running to time; flights running late were shown in amber; flights where information was being updated such as tech delays or whatever appeared in blue and cancellations appeared in red.
Alongside the flight display a second display cycled through each amber/blue/red coloured flight providing additional and constantly updated information.
Simple but effective.
