Ryanair - 6

[eu01]

connecting flights

Somewhere the connecting flights SHOULD be tested, anyway. Otherwise the development will be crippled by FR's own rules (or business model, if you prefer).

Look at new routes' frequencies. Osijek to Hahn just twice a week. It's symptomatic, I'd say. Obviously, Ryanair is learning to be more prudent, more realistic while planning the new routes. In some way it's a good approach, at least from the economical point of view. However, it's also more and more minimalistic approach.

The same OSI to HHN route could successfully run daily, maybe even twice daily, who knows. But under one condition. Frequencies could be raised only if HHN became a true hub, providing a variety of connections; from OSI via HHN to NYO, TRF, EDI, DUB, MAD and so on. If not, the limits are very near. Some other no-frills, serving bigger airports, do not have to bother with connecting flights, they can probably continue the point-to-point system with no changes at all. These choosing smaller airports (especially FR) should start thinking differently, or the LF's/ frequencies will fall again.

[Based]

Connecting Flights

The problem here (and key to their success to date!) is that Ryanair like to keep things simple. Once you introduce connecting flights you introduce delays, lost bags, etc. - the exact things they currently measure their performance on.

Probably more importantly, you introduce more complex systems and work practices. Flights can no longer be planned independently of each other, yield management becomes more complex, etc. All this requires additional software applications and significantly more staff training. staff retention then becomes an issue, etc. etc.

I'm not saying connecting flights are a stupid idea but it would definitely require a complete rethink of their whole business model!

[darren1]

FR's website can't cope with point to point bookings, how on earth will it be able to cope with connecting flights?

[eu01]

> Once you introduce connecting flights you introduce lost bags
Not necessarily. No connecting flights for pax with hold baggage (take the offer or leave it, MOL would love it)

> Flights can no longer be planned independently of each other
True. The schedules should be re-shaped anyway, even without any official connecting flights. Think of all these who change the planes "unofficially", think of millions of euros/pounds FR earns thanks to them. Creating more opportunities = winning more pax = earning more money

> it would definitely require a complete rethink of their whole business model
True. Why not earn more money using a mixed model. Fly cheaply combining flights on your own, say, 20 euros + 20 euros for a two-leg travel or buy a complete ticket (connecting flights) for 100 euros and lessen the risk. FR do not have to connect every flight everywhere. Just at one or two airports, just "safe" connections.

> FR's website can't cope with point to point bookings, how on earth will it be able to cope with connecting flights?
By selling the connecting flights via a different website or even outsourcing the service.

[racedo]

Can see where you going on the EU01

Hmmm interesting concept as with removal of checkin to kiosk and bag drop then you remove need to exit security and recheck as can do it airside if required but charge passengers an add on fare anyway for through checkin luggage or as you say not available if you have carryon.

Additionally with Superhubs you do open up an even bigger market place because the 1 flight a day suddenly get a lot bigger via a Superhub.

Its not changing business model that dramtically as work within what you have got anyway but its adding a lot more to what you have to really develop the network..

[Based]

Connecting Flights

My main point, eu01 and racedo, is you don't seem to be acknowledging the increased costs, particularly staff costs, associated with this.

What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times! Other opton is to allow people to create self-connecting flights as they currently do and suffer none of the risk! There are good reasons why connecting flights aren't currently offered!

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by based

What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times!

Let's just imagine you focus on one major base, STN say, or perhaps more likely HHN.

Say you specify that passengers with no hold baggage, where there's at least x minutes between arriving and departing flight, can pay say EUR30 (or whatever) extra, and in return if they miss the departing flight FR will get them on the next flight, or put them up overnight if necessary.

Clearly you define "x" (120?) based on your punctuality stats so that the probability of passengers missing the onward flight is very small, say 1%.
That means that for every passenger who ends up missing the onward flight and needing a payout, there's a "pot" of EUR3000 - enough to cover a decent hotel room in HHN, I suspect , or more to the point, enough to give you a tidy profit, even if you take into account the cost of setting up a "missed connections" desk.

Seems like a fairly logical extension of the business model to me - allows FR to offer a considerable number of new city-pairs which just happen to involve a change of plane. Southwest's managed to do connecting flights for ages. And I'm not the only one who has difficulty seeing where FR is going to put their vast number of on-order aircraft unless they stretch their business model in some new direction. Sure, some airline failures will make a bit of space for them to enter new markets, but not that much.

C.

[racedo]

My main point, eu01 and racedo, is you don't seem to be acknowledging the increased costs, particularly staff costs, associated with this.

Probably little extra cost as redployment of staff goes on all the time so changing for example Hahn into a place with more onwards flights wouldn't cost any more. Potentially less as you increase throughput traffic with same staff.

What happens when a connecting flight is delayed? Is the subsequent flight delayed or are passengers placed on the next available flight? The extra €60 won't go to far if this happens a couple of times! Other opton is to allow people to create self-connecting flights as they currently do and suffer none of the risk! There are good reasons why connecting flights aren't currently offered!

That is the benefit of a couple of Superhubs i.e. say Stansted and Hahn. If you have an 8am flight to Stansted & Hahn with passenger onward to Morocco then potentially you switch a passenger onto Hahn if you know Stansted is clogged up......passenger still gets to destination a bit late BUT you move them around the problem. Carryon bags well who cares whether you go via Hahn or Stansted as long as get there.

Given FR on time performance is so high then problem is generally a full base going down as in Lush Mob crashing the fences so all flights were delayed in which case you do what you can to get everything back up and running.

Interesting change to Business Plan but being flexible is what keeps you in business.

[Skipness One Echo]

You'd have to pay handling agents or in house staff to change reservations and chase bags etc etc. It is completely contrary to the strategy of the last decade and adds a degree of complexity and complication that is anathema to the business model.

[eu01]

connecting flights

Cyrano's calculation exemplifies very well the small scale of risk associated with such kind of business model extension if the planning is made well. Actually one can achieve more profit out of that. The handling agents? If you concentrate all such activities at just one centrally located airport (in Germany, presumably?), you can afford it. "Being flexible is what keeps you in business". Right. And many of us have "difficulty seeing where FR is going to put their vast number of on-order aircraft unless they stretch their business model in some new direction". Especially as their boss is very reluctant to accept any new airports to the network when not given the best possible terms. It takes months or years to negotiate, new planes are coming and the time is ticking out.

[Facelookbovvered]

I think part of the problem here is that Ryanair have already changed their business model, in the past they flew from somewhere to nowhere approached worked well, but as aircraft keep coming they are moving into other markets places such as the increase in flights between the med and the Midlands, suddenly they are having to deal with the aumblift delay and of course all this recent bollocks about binning checking desks is unlikely to work well when the summer med season gets going full tilt,, needs some fresh thinking if not to see further reduction in loads, you'll be unlikely to forget your Ryanair experience if your wife has had to stump up £30 at the gate to get either her hand bag or gifts on board

[ChalfontFlyer]

You'll need a £1 to spend 1p on Ryanair!

Michael O' Leary has just been interviewed on the BBC Breakfast TV programme & stated that as part of Ryanair's policy of raising discretionary income they are (yes - seriously!) looking at introducing coin slot locks on the loo doors!!

He stated "It'll cost a £1 to spend a 1P on Ryanair"

Presumably it will also take the 1 Euro coin as well!!!

[alm1]

Connecting Flights

Other low cost carrier Norwegian Air Shutle is offering connecting flights to destinations within Norway (via Oslo hub).
Seems to work well. Of course, there is an additional charge when buying connecting flights on the same booking (last time I flew last year it was 3 euro for each flight segment).

[potkettleblack]

It will never work and is surely just him trying to get free publicity. Consider your average Friday night flight. As the seatbelt signs go out there is a queue within about 30 seconds of people for the toilets. Do you think that each one is going to close the door and retrieve their quid or euro. Me thinks he will get his quid but only his quid which is going to take a long time to pay for the locks. And if he is going to have his cabin crew "monitoring" the doors of the loos then he will be losing money from the cart sales. Its a non runner and no doubt he is probably about to deliver some bad news to the markets about his trading results.

[Seat62K]

To return to the "connecting flights" topic, didn't Air Berlin try a "mega hub" at Palma de Mallorca (remember those wonderful £28 return fares via it to cities all over Spain a few years ago?)? Waves of flights would arrive at PMI with numerous departures shortly after. Now, I'm no expert on Air Berlin, but my perception is that it scaled back this hub-and-spoke operation, at least from the UK. Does anyone know more about this?; if Air Berlin re-thought the whole idea the reasons could be relevant to this discussion.
Connecting flights via airports like Stansted would be greatly complicated by having to go through security again.

[conradmueller]

As you might know, this mega hub in PMI still exists.
AB is the biggest operator in PMI. Just no flights to UK anymore.

[racedo]

You'd have to pay handling agents or in house staff to change reservations and chase bags etc etc. It is completely contrary to the strategy of the last decade and adds a degree of complexity and complication that is anathema to the business model.

2 ways around this

1.) - if you check bags then in initial stages you need to collect them at destination airport so can't do a hub system if you check bags
2.) - RFID tag each bag in which case finding it becomes very very easy as scanners everywhere....also as less people travelling with bags then maybe not such a huge issue as maybe only looking for 2 bags in 60 rather than for example a BA A320 where 2 bags in 200.

Think you have been around long enough to have seen changes to business models not just at FR but everybody else which 10 years ago would have been laughed at.

I think its an option with initialy some complications but these get worked through.

[racedo]

Connecting flights via airports like Stansted would be greatly complicated by having to go through security again.

If transiting then wouldn't need to go through security again as would stay airside.

Additionally would assume a Schengen area airport would do it first. It would not add anything to security because its assummed if there then have visa to be there anyway and that issue is an immigration one not an airline one provided they have vouched person could travel.

People joining from non Schengen would just join as they do now into many of the international airports when transiting.

[conradmueller]

In Stansted you can´t stay airside. As you know arriving and departing pax have to be seperated.
So in STN, you have to go to arrivals and then take the shortcut (with new security) to the right and enter the departure lounge. Thats how AB made it.

[racedo]

Thanks Conrad for explaining Stansted but does indicate its a potential goer. Nuts an bolts take a while but not difficult to see it working.