MANSTON
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Catflaps
HB has a point, he is only quoting a web site, but I am sure we are all agreed Wikipedia must be wrong..
Unless Ryanair know something no one else does ie there will be the demand for 2 737-800's operating from MSE to DUB and only at weekends in March 2008, the info must be incorrect or may I suggest a wind up!
28th March is very close to April 1st!!!!
MDIS
HB has a point, he is only quoting a web site, but I am sure we are all agreed Wikipedia must be wrong..
Unless Ryanair know something no one else does ie there will be the demand for 2 737-800's operating from MSE to DUB and only at weekends in March 2008, the info must be incorrect or may I suggest a wind up!
28th March is very close to April 1st!!!!
MDIS
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Wikipedia
Just looked at the site and hB is correct the info has gon.
Interestingly if you register and log in you can edit sections of the text!?
Looks like someone has set a hare running and a few greyhounds have shot out of the traps!
MDIS
Interestingly if you register and log in you can edit sections of the text!?
Looks like someone has set a hare running and a few greyhounds have shot out of the traps!
MDIS
Are the World airways doing the troop flights?
Join Date: May 2006
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"HB has a point, he is only quoting a web site,"
Indeed he was. However, when the original post was made no source was cited for the information. Now that the source has been presented we can all see that the information was false. I'm not saying that people should have to post sources for everything they post. It is a rumour network after-all. When someone posts something and says it is a rumour I think we can all use our common sense to decide whether to attach any credence to it. I just think that when someone posts something which they say they found on the internet, it would be helpful to give us the URL.
Indeed he was. However, when the original post was made no source was cited for the information. Now that the source has been presented we can all see that the information was false. I'm not saying that people should have to post sources for everything they post. It is a rumour network after-all. When someone posts something and says it is a rumour I think we can all use our common sense to decide whether to attach any credence to it. I just think that when someone posts something which they say they found on the internet, it would be helpful to give us the URL.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I just think that when someone posts something which they say they found on the internet, it would be helpful to give us the URL.
But we dont know if that information was true and that Ryanair got the website to removel it as they not released about it. James
Last edited by Manston Airport; 8th Mar 2007 at 19:06.
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From today's Isle of Thanet Gazette. It's part of a much larger article about the collpase of the Cosmos flights. I'm afraid I don't have time to type it all out:
"When Infratil took over the airport in 2005 the firm said progress would be slow and was prepared to run the airport at a loss of £10 million while trade built up."
"Chief Executive, Steve Fitzgerald said the company was looking to build 700,000 passengers by 2009 and 45,000 tonnes of cargo."
"He added: "We know that we won't start to make money until 2009 and will be operating at losses of about eight to £10 million but we are prepared for this."
"Last week, Mr. Fitzgerald said the company will reach a passenger figure of 600,000 within three years."
So, some hefty losses already and some hefty losses to come. What's worse, they don't seem to be making much progress towards the targets they've set for themselves for passengers.
"When Infratil took over the airport in 2005 the firm said progress would be slow and was prepared to run the airport at a loss of £10 million while trade built up."
"Chief Executive, Steve Fitzgerald said the company was looking to build 700,000 passengers by 2009 and 45,000 tonnes of cargo."
"He added: "We know that we won't start to make money until 2009 and will be operating at losses of about eight to £10 million but we are prepared for this."
"Last week, Mr. Fitzgerald said the company will reach a passenger figure of 600,000 within three years."
So, some hefty losses already and some hefty losses to come. What's worse, they don't seem to be making much progress towards the targets they've set for themselves for passengers.
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...and in the same article - "A Greek-based low-cost carrier is also expected to make an announcement about cheap flights by the summer".
Another load of old cobblers? Or another lamb to the slaughter?
On the letters page, a former commercial director of MSE writes virtually begging people to support the airport - as if it were some kind of charity.
Most embarrassing.
Another load of old cobblers? Or another lamb to the slaughter?
On the letters page, a former commercial director of MSE writes virtually begging people to support the airport - as if it were some kind of charity.
Most embarrassing.
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I wouldn't say it was embarrassing to be almost begging people to use the airport.
I can imagine that if you live locally its a mixed blessing. A busy airport would provide employment, but at the same time it will produce noise from flights.
For the airport to survive it has to, I assume, hit certain targets. In the case of passengers those are likely to have to come from the immediate area as those living outside the immediate area are unlikely to even think of flying from Manston at the moment.
I live the other side of Tunbride Wells from Manston but I can see benefits to flying from Manston. It may be an hour and quarter or half drive, but the drive is more reliable than going to Heathrow or Stanstead (yes Gatwick is about 45 mins). Not only that but if the road is shut there are a number of other options, whereas if the M25 or M11 is shut I'm stuffed.
However unless there are flights I can't fly from Manston, and I am not a frequent flyer! So on my own I am not going to create the business.
Whats effectively needed is an airlne with big pockets who can afford to lose money in years 1 and 2, whilst trade builds up.
I can imagine that if you live locally its a mixed blessing. A busy airport would provide employment, but at the same time it will produce noise from flights.
For the airport to survive it has to, I assume, hit certain targets. In the case of passengers those are likely to have to come from the immediate area as those living outside the immediate area are unlikely to even think of flying from Manston at the moment.
I live the other side of Tunbride Wells from Manston but I can see benefits to flying from Manston. It may be an hour and quarter or half drive, but the drive is more reliable than going to Heathrow or Stanstead (yes Gatwick is about 45 mins). Not only that but if the road is shut there are a number of other options, whereas if the M25 or M11 is shut I'm stuffed.
However unless there are flights I can't fly from Manston, and I am not a frequent flyer! So on my own I am not going to create the business.
Whats effectively needed is an airlne with big pockets who can afford to lose money in years 1 and 2, whilst trade builds up.
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"I can imagine that if you live locally its a mixed blessing. A busy airport would provide employment, but at the same time it will produce noise from flights."
A mixed blessing indeed. However, the airport is currently haemorrhaging local support because of their behaviour. The last three Sundays they've had training flights screaming around all over the Isle, not sticking to the agreed routes and going on for hours on end. It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up. Today they've had Astraeus going round and round ad nauseam. Many people are now questioning whether it is worth all of this aggravation for a measly 30 jobs. A business park of almost any size would produce more employment without the environmental downsides.
A mixed blessing indeed. However, the airport is currently haemorrhaging local support because of their behaviour. The last three Sundays they've had training flights screaming around all over the Isle, not sticking to the agreed routes and going on for hours on end. It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up. Today they've had Astraeus going round and round ad nauseam. Many people are now questioning whether it is worth all of this aggravation for a measly 30 jobs. A business park of almost any size would produce more employment without the environmental downsides.
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Catflaps do you ever fly on holiday and if so do you expect properly trained aircrew??.Circuit training both in small and large aircraft is a vital part of producing the finished product..... a safe airline flight.I suspect the airport has existed for many more years than you have lived in Ramsgate and it was certainly a lot noisier than present in past years.On that basis you have no reason to complain.You didn,t have to choose where you live near a large runway.In the years to come the south -east will require all the runways it currently has and a few more if its economy is to compete with the rest of the world.Enjoy the aircraft noise its the sign of a vibrant economy and a free world.
Last edited by Dartania; 9th Mar 2007 at 19:39.
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I saw that 757 at westwood cross its was brilliant seeing a 757 at MSE
and I saw that 747 doing circuits last sunday . It was Oasis Hong Kong Airlines. Oh and Catflaps whats the the agreed route then?
Regards
James
and I saw that 747 doing circuits last sunday . It was Oasis Hong Kong Airlines. Oh and Catflaps whats the the agreed route then?Regards
James
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Care
Guys
Lets all be a bit careful, or we will end up where we were last month, "off line"
I understand everyones frustrations but some posters are changing their opinions more often than their shirt.
On the one hand you want the airport to attract business and slate the management when it doesnt happen. This could be freight, passengers or just revenue earners; and on the other hand there are complaints about airlines performing go arounds. As it was Astraeus, this might suggest that they will be operating the Kent Escapes Flights? (please note question not fact)
There is far too much emotion from both sides of the argument. If MSE survives and prospers all well and good, if it doesnt, who gives a sh1t, it's not as if we have all invested as we did with Wiggins, Planestation, Toytown plc.
I get the feeling that Infratil are serious about running an airport at MSE, and that they are willing to put their money where their mouths are and give it their best shot.
There will be setbacks as with Virginia but they seem committed and good luck to them. There are lots of minor works taking place at the moment which would suggest that Infratil are not looking at housing or business parks just yet.
Still sitting on the fence
MDIS
Lets all be a bit careful, or we will end up where we were last month, "off line"
I understand everyones frustrations but some posters are changing their opinions more often than their shirt.
On the one hand you want the airport to attract business and slate the management when it doesnt happen. This could be freight, passengers or just revenue earners; and on the other hand there are complaints about airlines performing go arounds. As it was Astraeus, this might suggest that they will be operating the Kent Escapes Flights? (please note question not fact)
There is far too much emotion from both sides of the argument. If MSE survives and prospers all well and good, if it doesnt, who gives a sh1t, it's not as if we have all invested as we did with Wiggins, Planestation, Toytown plc.
I get the feeling that Infratil are serious about running an airport at MSE, and that they are willing to put their money where their mouths are and give it their best shot.
There will be setbacks as with Virginia but they seem committed and good luck to them. There are lots of minor works taking place at the moment which would suggest that Infratil are not looking at housing or business parks just yet.
Still sitting on the fence
MDIS
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"Oh and Catflaps whats the the agreed route then?"
There are published flight-paths for aircraft arriving and departing from runways 10 and 28. There are also routes which have been agreed for the training circuits. The local Council can provide you with copies if you ask them. I imagine the airport could also provide you with copies since they agreed these routes originally. Departure from the agreed routes is a breach of the legal agreement between the airport operator and the local Council. It is Infratil's responsibility to ensure that aircraft adhere to the agreed routes unless there are extenuating circumstances.
There are published flight-paths for aircraft arriving and departing from runways 10 and 28. There are also routes which have been agreed for the training circuits. The local Council can provide you with copies if you ask them. I imagine the airport could also provide you with copies since they agreed these routes originally. Departure from the agreed routes is a breach of the legal agreement between the airport operator and the local Council. It is Infratil's responsibility to ensure that aircraft adhere to the agreed routes unless there are extenuating circumstances.
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Glass Half Empty
"training flights screaming around all over the Isle"
or
Providing a facility for crew training on either procedural approaches or visual circuits.
"It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up"
or
Trying to run a business.
"worth all of this aggravation for a measly 30 jobs"
or
to Become part of the much need rejuvenation of an economically depressed area
Happy Friday
DTUP
or
Providing a facility for crew training on either procedural approaches or visual circuits.
"It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up"
or
Trying to run a business.
"worth all of this aggravation for a measly 30 jobs"
or
to Become part of the much need rejuvenation of an economically depressed area
Happy Friday
DTUP
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MDIS - Its unlikely Astraeus, would use a 757 on a route from manston
Manston Airport - the routing into and out of Manston are on the net. google it.
Catflaps - Routing ain't Infratil or the councils responsibility! Its
the CAA/NATS/Zone ATC and finally the captain of an aircraft
job to find the safest route for a aircraft.
It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up - its because
they have to - its a requirement. To maximum time and minimise
fuel burn, airlines use less busy airports in the 'middle of no where'
Some good news for you, Netjet now seem to have spilt there flight
training between Lydd and Manston now.
Manston Airport - the routing into and out of Manston are on the net. google it.
Catflaps - Routing ain't Infratil or the councils responsibility! Its
the CAA/NATS/Zone ATC and finally the captain of an aircraft
job to find the safest route for a aircraft.
It's almost as if they are trying to wind the locals up - its because
they have to - its a requirement. To maximum time and minimise
fuel burn, airlines use less busy airports in the 'middle of no where'
Some good news for you, Netjet now seem to have spilt there flight
training between Lydd and Manston now.
Last edited by fj1; 9th Mar 2007 at 20:26.
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Training Circuits
So, who is to blame if Astraeus have violated the agreed routes
ATC?
Infratil?
Local Management?
Pilots?
I am sure if rules have been violated there will be slapped wrists.
Without being personal does this complaint not highlight the anti Manston stance. "Continue to state that MSE cannot become a viable airport and lets have a business park which doesnt have noisy aircraft overhead"
MDIS
ATC?
Infratil?
Local Management?
Pilots?
I am sure if rules have been violated there will be slapped wrists.
Without being personal does this complaint not highlight the anti Manston stance. "Continue to state that MSE cannot become a viable airport and lets have a business park which doesnt have noisy aircraft overhead"
MDIS