MANSTON
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand that serious consideration is being given to extending the runway. There are other big freight contracts being actively worked on.
But is there a problem here if they expand, rwy 10 they would need to move the slip road which can be done I think and for rwy 28 there the main road but I see there's a big cap between the two so thats the only bit I see can be made longer but it means passing the Village oh well
Regards
James
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No roads have to be moved to accommodate a runway extension. 500m can easily be added: the only problem might be planning permission.
Infratil plays things close to its chest. There has been no announcement regarding the Cargolux/Ghana contract, so why should anyone say more on here about other work? I know of two major possibilities, but will not say a word unless and until they are firmed up. Posters who work for Infratil are in a better position to give the facts.
Infratil plays things close to its chest. There has been no announcement regarding the Cargolux/Ghana contract, so why should anyone say more on here about other work? I know of two major possibilities, but will not say a word unless and until they are firmed up. Posters who work for Infratil are in a better position to give the facts.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only problem might be planning permission
How quaint
The only problem might be how they are going to fund it...
Just in case you hadn't noticed, Manston's owners are getting very little return on their current investment, a 500m runway extension would cost them the best part of £3m by the time it's all done.... and for what?
An extension isn't needed and as things stand, considering the money theyve spent for no return, it's unlikely that Infratil will still be there in 12 months time.
How quaint
The only problem might be how they are going to fund it...
Just in case you hadn't noticed, Manston's owners are getting very little return on their current investment, a 500m runway extension would cost them the best part of £3m by the time it's all done.... and for what?
An extension isn't needed and as things stand, considering the money theyve spent for no return, it's unlikely that Infratil will still be there in 12 months time.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An extension isn't needed and as things stand, considering the money theyve spent for no return, it's unlikely that Infratil will still be there in 12 months time.
They might need it one day for the A380F if its flys from MSE
And I say in 24 months Infratil will still be at MSE maybe with more cargo airlines in.Regards
James
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tenet
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
weevhearditb4
James
Indeed they might well be, but not until they have sorted out the following;
Indeed they might well be, but not until they have sorted out the following;
- Dealt with the discharge consent (into Pegwell Bay)
- Relocated the BFI no1 (as its a threat to Thanets groundwater)
- Sort out the main runway drainage
Jeez there's a lot of froth here at the moment.
How much would a runway extension cost? Not just the actual infrastructure works, but putting it through the planning and approval process? And how much extra business would MSE gain as a result? How many years would it take Infratil to recoup their investment?? Would they ever??
I would suggest that when it comes to prioritising investment at MSE, Infratil won't consider this too seriously.
p.s. I thought the A380F was pretty much a dead duck following FedEx's cancellation.
How much would a runway extension cost? Not just the actual infrastructure works, but putting it through the planning and approval process? And how much extra business would MSE gain as a result? How many years would it take Infratil to recoup their investment?? Would they ever??
I would suggest that when it comes to prioritising investment at MSE, Infratil won't consider this too seriously.
p.s. I thought the A380F was pretty much a dead duck following FedEx's cancellation.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: N/A
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The runway extension would be needed as an overrun for an aborted takeoff of a fully laden B744
Put together the talk of runway extensions and new cargo buisness it dont take much figuring out
Catflaps will no doubt disagree with my statement but employees of Infratil have no reason to worry about the closure of Manston as this is not going to happen in the near future
Big talks with big airlines watch and see
All takes tinme but will payoff in the coming years
Put together the talk of runway extensions and new cargo buisness it dont take much figuring out
Catflaps will no doubt disagree with my statement but employees of Infratil have no reason to worry about the closure of Manston as this is not going to happen in the near future
Big talks with big airlines watch and see
All takes tinme but will payoff in the coming years
The runway extension would be needed as an overrun for an aborted takeoff of a fully laden B744
I realise you're one of the airports local fans, but sometimes you need to take your enthusiasts hat off and think about these things rationally.
Infratil are a business. They don't just embark on major projects like this on a whim. They need to justify the investment in financial terms, and that means getting a return on their investment.
My gut feel is that a 500m runway extension, with all that entails, would cost the thick end of £5m. Is that really going to attract sufficient extra business to justify the investment? What additional revenue would be generated as a result? If such an extension generates an extra £50,000 a year, for example, it will take 100 years to pay for itself. That's not going to be an attractive proposition for Infratil.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My view is that Toptrumps is a well-informed (he gave us the Cargolux story) employee of the airport, and should be listened to carefully.
£50,000 extra revenue a year from a £5m investment is obviously a non-runner, but where did that figure come from? They're looking at the extension seriously, so there are obviously big contracts out there. One of the two I know of would justify the investment on its own.
£50,000 extra revenue a year from a £5m investment is obviously a non-runner, but where did that figure come from? They're looking at the extension seriously, so there are obviously big contracts out there. One of the two I know of would justify the investment on its own.
£50,000 was a guess on my part. I don't know what the landing fees are for a 747 at MSE, but I bet they're not huge. If someone better informed than me could indicate the revenue that Infratil achieve from a single freight movement then I could be more precise. My gut feel, though, is that you would need to attract a s***load of new business to get a decent rate of return on investing in a runway extension. And I'm not talking an additional flight every other day.
But maybe you will. We shall see.
But maybe you will. We shall see.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My view is that Toptrumps is a well-informed (he gave us the Cargolux story) employee of the airport, and should be listened to carefully.
.
.
Regards
James
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't a clue how much Manston charge for landing fees, however a Google search reveals this page http://www.kembleatc.com/landing.htm giving fees for landing at Kemble. They may provide a very rough guide.
If a runway extension costs £3 million and the operator wants their money back in 5 years then thats £600,000 pa (assumming no interest) or £1,644 per day assumming 365 days a year.
This may or mayy not be helpful!
It does appear that the owners of Manston are going about the recovery of the airport the correct way, and are making slow and steady progress. I would imagine that as time passes the recovery will speed up, until the airport builds up a momentum of its own.
If a runway extension costs £3 million and the operator wants their money back in 5 years then thats £600,000 pa (assumming no interest) or £1,644 per day assumming 365 days a year.
This may or mayy not be helpful!
It does appear that the owners of Manston are going about the recovery of the airport the correct way, and are making slow and steady progress. I would imagine that as time passes the recovery will speed up, until the airport builds up a momentum of its own.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I alos hear that its not the runway they want too do they also want an upgrade of its ILS system to Category 3 (currently Cat 1)but they can do this until the near-by road system has been sorted out, as any lorries or high vehicles would interupt with the glideslope system, resulting in a/c being told that another plane was on the approach path or runway 
!
Regards
James
!Regards
James
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KENT International Airport at Manston has announced a strong freight performance for the first quarter of 2007.
The airport handled 7,841 tonnes of freight in January, February and March compared to 4,182 tonnes in the same period in 2006 – a year on year rise of nearly 100 per cent.
Link
The airport handled 7,841 tonnes of freight in January, February and March compared to 4,182 tonnes in the same period in 2006 – a year on year rise of nearly 100 per cent.
Link
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southeast
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look for reasons
Guys don't get too hung up over costs. Look for added value , this is what Infratil do.
Buy an asset for £10m spend £5m asset now valued at £20m.
Leaves plenty of time and borowing potential to build a revenue stream to further enhance value.
Good luck to them they will succeed.
Buy an asset for £10m spend £5m asset now valued at £20m.
Leaves plenty of time and borowing potential to build a revenue stream to further enhance value.
Good luck to them they will succeed.
Look for added value , this is what Infratil do. Buy an asset for £10m spend £5m asset now valued at £20m.
Of course it's not. Once again, a fundamental lack of understanding. Costs ARE important, because a business like Infratil needs to achieve a return on their investment. If the cost of investment against the likely return is too high, then it's going to be a non-starter.
Investment only results in added value if it delivers permanent and sustainable improvements in revenue and profitability. With specific regard to the rumoured runway extension, if it cost a few thousand pounds then it would be a no brainer. But if, as I suspect, it costs several million, then undertaking such a project will need to generate a significant amout of extra business in order to be viable. If it doesn't, then there's no value added at all.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"..but they can do this until the near-by road system has been sorted out"
That near-by road system happens to be the only road in and out of Ramsgate. You can't close it and replacing it with an alternative route would take many years. If that's what's needed to upgrade the ILS you've got a long, long wait.
That near-by road system happens to be the only road in and out of Ramsgate. You can't close it and replacing it with an alternative route would take many years. If that's what's needed to upgrade the ILS you've got a long, long wait.