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Join Date: Apr 2008
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NorthSouth - accept everything you say about technical limitations. Hopefully, this should keep it from getting TOO busy over time as it becomes more successful.
. ...that, in my opinion, should be the PR strapline for the airport! 
..but don't expect Easyjet or Ryanair.
NorthSouth
The fact that Ryanair's 738s will not be able to operate effectively from SEN is one of its best selling points as far as other airlines are concerned I'm sure you will agree, so that's no disadvantage.
It's rather disingenuous to suggest that SEN's declared distances will be to any significant amount less than those at SOU and its TORA and ASDA will in fact be greater.
I'm sure Flybe will be showing interest in SEN following its recent EMB 175 order and that type will be well suited to SEN's runway and I wouldn't rule our Easyjet operating the A319 either.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that SEN is about to become the new Luton, after all their aim is only 2 million ppa, but I think you're adopting rather too much a 'glass half empty' attitude to its prospects if I may say so.
The fact that Ryanair's 738s will not be able to operate effectively from SEN is one of its best selling points as far as other airlines are concerned I'm sure you will agree, so that's no disadvantage.
It's rather disingenuous to suggest that SEN's declared distances will be to any significant amount less than those at SOU and its TORA and ASDA will in fact be greater.
I'm sure Flybe will be showing interest in SEN following its recent EMB 175 order and that type will be well suited to SEN's runway and I wouldn't rule our Easyjet operating the A319 either.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that SEN is about to become the new Luton, after all their aim is only 2 million ppa, but I think you're adopting rather too much a 'glass half empty' attitude to its prospects if I may say so.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Just a few thoughts from someone who flew from Southend in 1961 and wishes it well for the future BUT I cannot see it getting enough passengers to make the investment worthwhile. I hope the management of the Stobart Group - who I have a great admiration for - but who are not probably not aviation minded or experienced realise that if they move the Aer Arrean routes from Luton that practically all those who use the services live or have relations in the Beds/Herts/North London area and will not travel down to Southend. Also as has been said the Isle of Man-London City services is losing pax and that is a business flight so no realisation of increased pax there as Southend is further out.
Also everybody seems to be making great play of the rail service into Central London from Southend - so has Luton and London City.
Sorry to be so negative but in my honest opinion I cannot see it paying its way. It will get a few services i.e. more Jersey and possibly an Amsterdam but not much else I am afraid. I do hope I am proved wrong because I like to see all airports flourish but in this cut throat world some will not.
Also everybody seems to be making great play of the rail service into Central London from Southend - so has Luton and London City.
Sorry to be so negative but in my honest opinion I cannot see it paying its way. It will get a few services i.e. more Jersey and possibly an Amsterdam but not much else I am afraid. I do hope I am proved wrong because I like to see all airports flourish but in this cut throat world some will not.
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I too flew regularly (albeit as a small boy) in the early 70’s from SEN to OST on good old BAF, so do have a slight nostalgic rose tinted view of SEN. Nonetheless, these are my own observations about using London’s airports in recent years. I neither make the case for or against any of them as I wish them all well. I’m just glad we might have a new option that can avoid some of the pitfalls of the others and apply some of the positives.
LTN: Fairly nice new airport terminal but I dispute that it has its own rail service. You are faced with a 45 minute trip on a semi-fast Thameslink (hell in the rush hour) or mildly less nasty East Midlands Train to Luton Airport Parkway where you disembark to be met by a bl00dy bus. That you have to pay for. That always seems to get stuck in traffic on the 1 mile trip to/from the terminal.
STN: Was a nice airport but now flooded with LCC pax blundering around seemingly having lost any ounce of intelligence when they left home. Whole airport was only supplied with 1 or 2 working x-ray machines, manned by about 20 personnel apiece. Other xray machines lie dormant. LCC gates are seemingly located in Suffolk, given the 25 minute hike to them. Stansted Express takes at least 40 mins to get into town.
LCY: Lovely airport but has a schizophrenic attitude to non-business passengers – welcomes leisure flights with BACF but other airlines have to cope with odd off-peak slot allocation. There are bargains to be had but fares, generally, are targeted at business pax. I still think it takes at least 30 mins to get from Bank, whatever the DLR timetable says.
LHR: Can either be great or a nightmare. Depends on time of day and terminal. Allow 1hr from central London. I avoid for short haul trips if possible.
LGW: Great train service (I think its quicker to get to than LHR) and the customer service has improved remarkably since BAA sold it. Ongoing reconstruction work in varying places whenever I pass through. Slight feeling that they’ve stuck some airbridges onto a shopping centre as a sideline venture.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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SEN might be an interesting option for BE as Flybe does not serve LCY, STN or LTN and SEN is immune from airlines operating larger aircraft. So with the Q400s and E175, they might have the right arcraft for a SEN operation. However, SEN's catchment area on two - some would argue three - sides is water, so somewhat limited.
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compton3bravo->Luton is the only London service from Waterford and Galway, so it's likely that most of the passengers are bound for London rather than Beds/Herts/etc. If there's a railway station at Southend, it won't make much difference to them whether they are flying to Luton or Southend.
Probably there will be some migration of passengers to DUB/ORK/SNN/NOC-STN or DUB/NOC-LTN, but there is also the potential to gain some passengers whose final destination was in South Essex or East London from the Stansted routes.
Probably there will be some migration of passengers to DUB/ORK/SNN/NOC-STN or DUB/NOC-LTN, but there is also the potential to gain some passengers whose final destination was in South Essex or East London from the Stansted routes.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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London Southend Airport - Serving the Thames Gateway - A Big Catchment Area
Not a bad catchment area.
Not a bad catchment area.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Expressflight:
The differences are relatively small I agree, and whether TORA, TODA or ASDA are the limiting distance depends on the aircraft and circumstances. My point was to illustrate by means of a comparison with a similar size runway. Southampton has no A319s and no Easyjet. Easyjet's shortest runway in the UK is now Belfast City (was Inverness), which beats the extended Southend on all measures. No disrespect to Southend who have done their best in a very planning-constrained situation. Flybe has always been Southend's target market and yes, I agree, E175 will do the job there too.
NS
It's rather disingenuous to suggest that SEN's declared distances will be to any significant amount less than those at SOU and its TORA and ASDA will in fact be greater
NS
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Sorry to disagree with you 840 but most of the 'Irish' community in the south of England live in the areas which I described, but I would suggest that if they wanted to go to East London and the Essex area they would take the Knock and Cork flights to Luton and Stansted as the distances from Galway and Waterford are not too great. Also noted in another post to expect 300,000 passengers annually is pushing it a bit or maybe a lot!
compton3bravo
With respect, I think you're missing the point somewhat.
This deal isn't about the transfer of the current two routes into LTN across to SEN. That may well be a consequence of the deal and maybe they'll suffer somewhat as a result and maybe not, but it will be incidental to the new routes which RE will establish from SEN. That's where the 300,000 pax figure comes from because RE will be looking at new, unserved markets for which SEN is best suited, both inbound and outbound.
Also, I'm sorry but Luton Airport does not have a railway station as Steviec9 has pointed out. There's a world of difference between a two minute stroll from arrivals to the up-line station platform at SEN and joining a bus queue, paying the driver, humping your cases on board, the bus journey itself through heavy traffic to Luton Parkway, humping your cases off again and then finding the platform you need when you use LTN.
With respect, I think you're missing the point somewhat.
This deal isn't about the transfer of the current two routes into LTN across to SEN. That may well be a consequence of the deal and maybe they'll suffer somewhat as a result and maybe not, but it will be incidental to the new routes which RE will establish from SEN. That's where the 300,000 pax figure comes from because RE will be looking at new, unserved markets for which SEN is best suited, both inbound and outbound.
Also, I'm sorry but Luton Airport does not have a railway station as Steviec9 has pointed out. There's a world of difference between a two minute stroll from arrivals to the up-line station platform at SEN and joining a bus queue, paying the driver, humping your cases on board, the bus journey itself through heavy traffic to Luton Parkway, humping your cases off again and then finding the platform you need when you use LTN.
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If Southend markets itself correctly, then maybe it could make a killing brandishing its image as London's regional airport.If it can get a few basic routes from aer arran into say, Dublin and Cork, then maybe airlines such as Flybe could expand if they see a positive reaction to some bigger hubs such as Manchester and Glasgow, while even smaller airlines such as Manx2 (seasonal into Ronaldsway),Blue Islands(seasonal into Guernsey/Alderney) and possibly Eastern (maybe could compete against their own services from Norwich to Aberdeen with a reduced weekly service from both)
And if they really want to use Southampton as their role models, maybe organising a series of charters skiing or niche through the likes of Inghams, Canterbury Travels and Newmarket Holidays would work nicely, finished of with a limited summer seasonal from Thomson to Palma de Mallorca/Alicante
And if they really want to use Southampton as their role models, maybe organising a series of charters skiing or niche through the likes of Inghams, Canterbury Travels and Newmarket Holidays would work nicely, finished of with a limited summer seasonal from Thomson to Palma de Mallorca/Alicante
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I think that Expressflight and Roocat are along the right lines. But my take is that Aer Arann is a confidence/market-building opportunity to encourage a early positive decision from FlyBe. Even with limited Aer Arann flights (and I cannot see how they would be able to invest in significant new routes in their present state) the airport's profile will be significantly enhanced as a real and credible operation.
With Aer Arann's ATPs they can go for an early start-up in 2011, which will help secure the extensive GA business for 2012 that Stobart must be planning on. Airport to Stratford - 40 mins, and ignoring the capacity-strained LCY, only Stansted anywhere near (no direct rail, though road might be better, depending on time of day).
davidships
With Aer Arann's ATPs they can go for an early start-up in 2011, which will help secure the extensive GA business for 2012 that Stobart must be planning on. Airport to Stratford - 40 mins, and ignoring the capacity-strained LCY, only Stansted anywhere near (no direct rail, though road might be better, depending on time of day).
davidships
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Take your point Expressflight, but I have real trouble seeing where these 'new' 300,000 annual passengers are going to come from. The only possible way in my opinion is to take them from existing airports mainly Stansted, London City and possibly some from Norwich although the latter does not have many routes at present and City has practically all what you would call business routes.
Almost all airports in the UK are still suffering from the recesion and consequent drop in traffic andwill continually do so especially those in the leisure field, but as I have said before good luck to Southend but I will not be holding my breath!
Almost all airports in the UK are still suffering from the recesion and consequent drop in traffic andwill continually do so especially those in the leisure field, but as I have said before good luck to Southend but I will not be holding my breath!
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Blue Islands at Southend
Hi all,
Southend has much more potential than I thought initially. However, Blue Islands would now never service Alderney from Southend as it has got rid of its last two Trislanders. Guernsey maybe, but you can get from Southampton Airport to London in 1 hour and this is the same time as Southend. However, they could market it as a London service.
AM
Southend has much more potential than I thought initially. However, Blue Islands would now never service Alderney from Southend as it has got rid of its last two Trislanders. Guernsey maybe, but you can get from Southampton Airport to London in 1 hour and this is the same time as Southend. However, they could market it as a London service.
AM
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just had relatives up from Southend and we were discussing Southend airport yesterday, and they said from there point of view they can't see Southend getting anywhere the passengers it wants, Stansted is just 1 hour away and London city and Gatwick aint ages away either. As for people coming from Norwich to use Southend airport instead of the airport there, they would be mad tbh, Southend are most likely going to have similar routes as Norwich with the same airline most likely Flybe, why would you want to travel down to Southend 2 hours+ just to go on the same service offered from Norwich, the only reason would be to avoid the £5 ADP at Norwich but lets be honest your going to spend 3 times that much in petrol getting to Southend which would be crazy, so think we can say there wont be anybody from the Norwich area going to Southend, the drive down is bad enough, so bloody slow
i can certainly see a few niche routes working from Southend but not enough to get it close to the 2 million, maybe 1 million but that's only a maybe
i can certainly see a few niche routes working from Southend but not enough to get it close to the 2 million, maybe 1 million but that's only a maybe
I agree with Nick Barnes that SEN is most unlikely to attract pax from the Norwich area, except for 'niche' routes where SEN is offering the only direct service to destination from the London/South East area.
It's interesting that some posters who claim scepticism about SEN's prospects are well established supporters of their own local airport, so perhaps there's some element of alarm there at losing out to SEN in future. What seems to be largely overlooked is the large natural catchment that SEN has; this being 608,000 people for whom SEN is 20 minutes less driving time from home than any other London airport, plus another 410,000 for whom SEN is of equal driving time or less.
Inbound traffic is also going to form a large part of SEN's future traffic - I know because I'm currently working for a French airport on a project to re-establish its London route next year. The airport they have chosen to work with to achieve this is SEN as they see it offering excellent facilities, good slot availability, and an excellent rail link to London. The response from the prime target airline to this plan is also positive about using SEN. This is happening now, it's not some wishful thinking on the part of Stobart or the SEN management. In the real world of short haul services from mainland Europe to London, SEN is generating a lot of airline interest and that's a fact.
This Aer Arann deal is just the start so look out for much more to come over the coming few months - some people are going to get quite a surprise.
It's interesting that some posters who claim scepticism about SEN's prospects are well established supporters of their own local airport, so perhaps there's some element of alarm there at losing out to SEN in future. What seems to be largely overlooked is the large natural catchment that SEN has; this being 608,000 people for whom SEN is 20 minutes less driving time from home than any other London airport, plus another 410,000 for whom SEN is of equal driving time or less.
Inbound traffic is also going to form a large part of SEN's future traffic - I know because I'm currently working for a French airport on a project to re-establish its London route next year. The airport they have chosen to work with to achieve this is SEN as they see it offering excellent facilities, good slot availability, and an excellent rail link to London. The response from the prime target airline to this plan is also positive about using SEN. This is happening now, it's not some wishful thinking on the part of Stobart or the SEN management. In the real world of short haul services from mainland Europe to London, SEN is generating a lot of airline interest and that's a fact.
This Aer Arann deal is just the start so look out for much more to come over the coming few months - some people are going to get quite a surprise.
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Travelling to LGW
Nick Barnes: Quote "Gatwick aint ages away either"
Try that in the morning down the A127, QE2 bridge, M25 etc, and I think you will sing a different tune.
Try that in the morning down the A127, QE2 bridge, M25 etc, and I think you will sing a different tune.
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I know of a couple of airlines with strong inbound markets that might find SEN very attractive based on geography, and really wouldn't be surprised if they moved in....and would provide around 1.2 million pax per annum. One is silver with a bit of yellow and purple, the other is distinctive red and white. One is at STN, the other LGW.
, but which airline is silver with a bit of yellow and purple? And Virgin at Southend? Surely not Join Date: Nov 1999
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